55 Gallon Ordinary Steel Drum System

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
San Francisco, CA
I picked up a few food grade "ordinary" steel drums. They have removable tops, crimped bottoms, and are coated with something that looks like epoxy.

There are lots of posts saying you can't mash and boil in ordinary steel but I haven't seen one from somebody who has actually tried it and has experience, versus speculation, with the failures.

I was concerned about the crimped bottoms leaking or failing when I apply direct gas heat but a test should answer that question. Possibly putting 3 inches of boiling water on the brew house floor but answering none the less.

I am also concerned that when heated the epoxy (or whatever) coating will fail in some nasty, toxic way. If the bottom crimp doesn't fail in the test, I will examine the water and the coating to see if there are any off flavors. (Might give some to the neighbor's cat too just to see if its safe.)

I got some advice the other day that water was such a good heat transfer fluid that for the most part the interior surfaces won't get above 212 F. Seems reasonable. I'm not concerned about any of the materials at that temperature.

The drums were the right price (free) and the test should be easy.

Any experience out there? I'll post some photos and updates from the test.
 
Man up a little and drink the sample yourself. More than likely, the coating on the inside of the drums will bubble, split or crack exposing the bare steel to whatever you are boiling in them. Sooner or later the exposed steel will rust and ruin your beer. Don't bother with the pics. I don't think you will find much interest. A better option would be a stainless steel drums which are available, but usually not for free. Unless you have at least some brewing experience, you would be wise to start on a smaller scale. Have you ever brewed a batch of beer? Somehow I don't think so.
 
Mashing or boiling in a container that is just steel covered with paint?

Sorry man, that does not sound good. I've never met a paint that didn't eventually wear off or fall off under harsh conditions. A stainless drum, if you are really seeking a huge pot, is probably your best bet.
 
I used to work at a tin can factory for a few months. I can't say I'm an expert, but I might be able to shed some light on how the coating might perform.

For various food products, we would put a coating on the inside of the can to prevent food contamination from the can or even failure of the can from acidic foods like tomato sauce and whatnot. I learned that foods like some soups were cooked inside the can, so that may testify to the safety of the coating, but I can't say that your coating would be equally safe. As for the coating itself, it was put onto the can blank wet, and baked on in an oven at pretty high temps. So again, being exposed to temps very much higher than 212F, but it also may not have been applied in the same method and is not exposed to water products until much later if at all.

So ultimately, I really haven't helped much, but if I were in your position, I would proceed with much caution and I personally wouldn't do it. Just my opinion.
 
I would forget about boiling in it and use it as a GIANT fermenter. Gather a half dozen guys with propane burners, use the same method and ingredients, and throw it in the drum to ferment. It would probably make for a more balanced beer and get rid of any mistakes one of you would make. Like a good coffee or wine blend. I wish I had more brewers on hand to do something like that myself.
 
Despite the negative sentiment from the forum rats who don't have any experience....

Phase I and Phase II testing were successful.

The drums maintained their structural integrity under direct gas fire with 175k BTU. The coating proved durable to both heating and mild abrasion from the paddle. about 4 batches of 15 gallons of water was boiled and there was no impact, from either the coating or the small rust patches that are already there, to taste, smell, or appearance.

For Phase III, I am going to mount fittings to the drums and use either the Bazooka screen or the false bottom from the 10 gallon system for a test batch. (If the system passes Phase III I will customize some kind of screen or false bottom.)

I figure the test brew will be 20 gallons of a 1.060 pale ale, lightly hopped. Something I can ferment at ambient (65F) because my largering system (temp controlled fridge) can't handle much more than 10 gallons. I want something that's pretty clean so I can really asses if the system passes Phase III.

I've read a bout a guy who gets 46 gallons from his 55 gallon system and mashes up to 130 pounds of grain. I've got to work on my jacketed fermenter so that I can be ready for that much larger.

So far so good.
 
The test brew was a pretty good success.

I decided I would brew 20 gallons at 148 with my usual, light hopping schedule and then ferment 10 gallons with German Bock yeast at 50 F and 10 gallons with English Ale yeast at ambient - which is about 65 F in the garage right now.

The problem I ran into was the hose connecting my false bottom with the tank fitting came off in the mash tun mid way through. So I had to pull all of the mash out and sparge it in my 10 gallon sparger by hand. Even with this set back, I got efficiency of 70% and ran at 20 minutes per gallon, down from 30 minutes per gallon on the smaller system.

20 gallons is most of my fermentation capacity so I am not going to run another batch for a little while. I will bottle condition, keg condition, and lager the results so I can compare not only the new system but also the ale versus yeast impact on my recipe.

I will update again in 4 weeks or so.

Next up is malting my own barely. I just happen to have 10 tons of Metcalf. I think that will be a separate thread....
 
I know it's an old thread and all, but seemed interesting. Ordinary steel drums are so much cheaper, but I've always just speculated and never tried it. However, it sucks there was no pics posted though as they always speak louder than words and that there is no way to prove that this wasn't just made up... :rolleyes:
 
Man up a little and drink the sample yourself. More than likely, the coating on the inside of the drums will bubble, split or crack exposing the bare steel to whatever you are boiling in them. Sooner or later the exposed steel will rust and ruin your beer. Don't bother with the pics. I don't think you will find much interest. A better option would be a stainless steel drums which are available, but usually not for free. Unless you have at least some brewing experience, you would be wise to start on a smaller scale. Have you ever brewed a batch of beer? Somehow I don't think so.

That was a little bit uncalled for. Hell, I'm all for people deviating from the normal progression of equipment upgrades and such. Don't listen to the poster above, try new things and prove all of us wrong. Interesting thread though, I'll be sure follow it. Pics of those beasts in action would be great...
 
FWIW, Catt22 made that comment over a year ago.

LOL, but I remain as unpopular as ever!:D My only point was that it would be stupid to risk brewing in a plain steel vessel and even more worser to brew a huge batch in one. Who gives a rats butt what I think anyway. It's just an opinion and we all know how those range. Go ahead and brew in an oil drum if you want to, but please be sure to post back with an honest review of the finished beer. Maybe it will work OK. Only one sure way to find out.:drunk:
 
Is it any wonder why he never posted again? The dude is all sorts of iron oxide poisoned by now.

BTW: I LOVE how stupid ideas get all kinds of cheerleaders behind them. Yes, thinking outside the box is a virtue but thoughts should lead to research that actually prevent wasted time and bodily harm.
 
Is it any wonder why he never posted again? The dude is all sorts of iron oxide poisoned by now.

BTW: I LOVE how stupid ideas get all kinds of cheerleaders behind them. Yes, thinking outside the box is a virtue but thoughts should lead to research that actually prevent wasted time and bodily harm.

Yeah, that's why I said it sucks there was no pics posted as they always speak louder than words and that there is no way to prove that this wasn't just made up... :rolleyes:

However, I wouldn't agree that it's a stupid idea. I feel it's best to present a logical, responsive opinion as opposed to an egotistical reaction, e.g., talking crap. :p
 
I am surprised that he said the coating held up to direct flame impingement. Maybe it was only the inside coating? The outside should have caught fire. I used a food grade drum to make a meat smoker this past winter and the first thing we did was put pallet wood in it and burn off the paint. Maybe the water inside kept the paint cool(ish).

Of course, that is outside of the normal problems with boiling in a painted steel vessel.
 
Thanks for the interest 2 years later. I'll get some pics up next week.

The system works great and I've had some fantastic 50 gallon batches. (The smallest part of the system is my trash can for spent grains.) I never upgraded the false bottom from the 10 gallon stainless one I had for my cooler / mash tun and I think I loose some efficiency there.

Whatever that coating was flaked off the boil pretty quickly but (despite rapid speculation) was exactly what you'd expect: an inert food grade coating of some kind.

I am getting a fair amount of rust in the barrel but the wort doesn't stay in it very long, just a few hours, so I am not concerned about it. Think about the surface area to volume over a short time. And 2 years later, no iron oxide poisoning. I am thinking about replacing the boil barrel with one of my spares and possibly adopting a 1 year life on it - the price is right so why not.
 
I'm glad to hear of your continued success! If it works for you, more power to ya. Since the drums were free, it was definitely an idea worth trying. However, even after two years, I am still unconvinced until I see some pics. I look forward to seeing them. Personally, I won't use normal steel for a brewing vessel. It's all SS for me from here on out.

Did ya hear that, Bobby and wyzazz? No iron oxide poisoning, no bodily harm, and no hospital visit. Still a stupid idea? If so, how about you actually explain your opinion? That's what I try to do. Even if I all have to provide is criticism, I at least present it as a logical, responsive action... That way I don't sound like such an *******. :p
 
@nationslargest - Glad it's working for ya!

@EarthBound - No need for nasty name calling, my previous statements were meant jokingly & that's that. I wouldn't use "ordinary steel" for a brew system because the risks just aren't worth the benefits in my case. I don't want rust (or any of the associated off-flavors) in my beer, nor do I want a surface that I cannot easily clean before/after a brew session. While I don't know that making beer in a standard steel drum will cause you bodily harm, I do know that I don't cook food in a rusty pan, cut my steak with a rusty knife, or use really anything that isn't considered generally food-safe in preparing things for consumption. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

You can take off that Cheerleaders Outfit now... :mug:
 
I don't want rust (or any of the associated off-flavors) in my beer, nor do I want a surface that I cannot easily clean before/after a brew session. While I don't know that making beer in a standard steel drum will cause you bodily harm, I do know that I don't cook food in a rusty pan, cut my steak with a rusty knife, or use really anything that isn't considered generally food-safe in preparing things for consumption. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

and thats why we pasturize our milk and sterilize our surgical equipment. sure you dont necessarily have to (except by law), but its best practice. if you want to brew in a rusty bucket, i have no problem at all with that. im sure beer will still be made regardless of the vessle, just dont expect me to be drinking it.
 
Just an afterthought, I do cook on Cast Iron but it's not rusty (because of the oil I keep on the metal) and I completely clean and re-season the pans/grill every 6 moz.
 
@nationslargest - Glad it's working for ya!

@EarthBound - No need for nasty name calling, my previous statements were meant jokingly & that's that. I wouldn't use "ordinary steel" for a brew system because the risks just aren't worth the benefits in my case. I don't want rust (or any of the associated off-flavors) in my beer, nor do I want a surface that I cannot easily clean before/after a brew session. While I don't know that making beer in a standard steel drum will cause you bodily harm, I do know that I don't cook food in a rusty pan, cut my steak with a rusty knife, or use really anything that isn't considered generally food-safe in preparing things for consumption. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

You can take off that Cheerleaders Outfit now... :mug:

Yeah, I wouldn't want any rust in my beer, for sure!

I was joking, as well, and I was saying that sometimes I, not you, can sound like an ******* because of how easy it is to misinterpret my tone on this forum. You're right, though - I suppose I am kind of hard on myself.

Wait a minute... You're gonna have to buy me at least a couple drinks before I take off my skirt for you, buddy. Oh, and I hope you don't mind the smell. I haven't showered in a couple of days.
 
OK. 4 images posted. I couldn't figure out how to get them in the message body so click through.

Image 70: boiler / hot liquor tank and mash tun. The masher is so big that I don't need a separate boiler / hot liquor tank. I know that there are some inefficiencies with having so much water in the masher during the sparge but I think it works well and its nice having a 2 vessel system.

Image 71: the inside of the boil kettle. Yes, that's rust. I have 2 years of experimental evidence to suggest that it works fine. From the start of the brew day to the transfer to the fermenter, the wort is only in the boiler for maybe 10 hours. You might think its a big deal but come over for a beer and you'll see it isn't. (Or try it yourself.)

Image 72: pump connecting the hot liquor tank to the mash tun during sparge. I sparge into four 5 gallon buckets or so while the hot liquor tank empties then I start the boil.

Image 03: The walk in fridge with the 60 gallon conical fermenter, six 5 gallon fermenters, and half a dozen or so kegs.

We can have another thread on what I would do differently with the walk in and the conical. And planned upgrades to the mash tun.

I brewed a 40 gallon batch on Friday. 86 pound grain bill. I separated the 1st and 3rd 5 gallons of run off for a double IPA in a separate boiler - 1.088 SG - and the remaining 30 gallons into the primary boiler for a golden ale - 1.050 SG. Without some extract, 40 gallons is close to my max since that's all the spent grain that will fit in the trash can ;)

IMG00072-20110930-1411.jpg


IMG00071-20110930-1103.jpg


IMG00070-20110930-1103.jpg


IMG00003-20110515-1856.jpg
 
@whoever said he probably has never brewed before:

Yeah it doesn't really look like it does it. I wouldn't ever do this, because I don't want 50 gallons of anything, but if I did for some reason id definitely throw together a set of these, since I can get these drums for free as well
 
Image 71: the inside of the boil kettle. Yes, that's rust. I have 2 years of experimental evidence to suggest that it works fine. From the start of the brew day to the transfer to the fermenter, the wort is only in the boiler for maybe 10 hours. You might think its a big deal but come over for a beer and you'll see it isn't. (Or try it yourself.)

Do you use BKF (or other cleanser) to get the rust out before brewing?
 
The boil kettle, the one pictured, is in worse shape than the mash tun but even the masher is starting to show a little rust. I do a pressure rinse before and after each brew - but no cleaners on the boil kettle. Its an interesting thought though.

You'd be surprised how fast 50 gallons goes. We also have a beer co-op of sorts here called Brew Lab - I'm not a member yet but I am moving in that direction.

I do find that I get "style lock" and need to drive more variation into my brewing rotation. Recently I have been separating 10 gallons from the sparge into a different kettle. Mostly the first run for a double variation of a recipe but sometimes a later 10 gallons for a small beer (long days, old age, and hot summers revealed an unexpected down side to 6% beer: naps). I have the fermenting capacity to vary yeasts or use some fruit or dry hop or whatever. Besides I like lagers so 50 gallons ensures that you have some left by the time its really ready. I have a beer library that goes back 8 years.

Obviously I don't exceed California's limit of 200 gallons per year :) but I have been brewing for a long time and should brew my 200th batch next year.
 
I'm glad to hear of your continued success! If it works for you, more power to ya. Since the drums were free, it was definitely an idea worth trying. However, even after two years, I am still unconvinced until I see some pics. I look forward to seeing them. Personally, I won't use normal steel for a brewing vessel. It's all SS for me from here on out.

Did ya hear that, Bobby and wyzazz? No iron oxide poisoning, no bodily harm, and no hospital visit. Still a stupid idea? If so, how about you actually explain your opinion? That's what I try to do. Even if I all have to provide is criticism, I at least present it as a logical, responsive action... That way I don't sound like such an *******. :p

You're right. I concede that it's a great idea now that I see the pictures of the still in use rusty barrels and the fact that he is still alive to post. :rolleyes: If only all ideas could be measured in terms of whether it kills you in year or not.
 
The Barrel wont last long we used them as a kid to burn trash in and they rotted away very quickly. Of course that was exposed to the elements 24/7.
 
I purchased a 55 gallon stainless steel drum last night.

In Bobby's defense. Earthbound went the 55 gal drum route but opted for SS (which is a great idea BTW). He must not have much confidence in ordinary carbon steel himself. I wouldn't either.
 
rusty vessel for my beer, I don't think so...

I applaud your effort and design, but that rust HAS to be making its way into your brew, and that is not some thing the health department would be so keen on. I wouldn't buy a beer from a brewery if I knew they were using rusty equipment.

-=Jason=-
 
The boil kettle, the one pictured, is in worse shape than the mash tun but even the masher is starting to show a little rust. I do a pressure rinse before and after each brew - but no cleaners on the boil kettle. Its an interesting thought though.

You'd be surprised how fast 50 gallons goes. We also have a beer co-op of sorts here called Brew Lab - I'm not a member yet but I am moving in that direction.

I do find that I get "style lock" and need to drive more variation into my brewing rotation. Recently I have been separating 10 gallons from the sparge into a different kettle. Mostly the first run for a double variation of a recipe but sometimes a later 10 gallons for a small beer (long days, old age, and hot summers revealed an unexpected down side to 6% beer: naps). I have the fermenting capacity to vary yeasts or use some fruit or dry hop or whatever. Besides I like lagers so 50 gallons ensures that you have some left by the time its really ready. I have a beer library that goes back 8 years.

Obviously I don't exceed California's limit of 200 gallons per year :) but I have been brewing for a long time and should brew my 200th batch next year.

How much of this beer (meaning the beer brewed in the rusty BK) have you drank? How long have you been drinking this beer? Have other people drank it? Does it taste/seem different than other beer to you? Do you **** funny after drinking it?

I'm trying to collect empirical data... like a science experiment!
 
How much of this beer (meaning the beer brewed in the rusty BK) have you drank? How long have you been drinking this beer? Have other people drank it? Does it taste/seem different than other beer to you? Do you **** funny after drinking it?

I'm trying to collect empirical data... like a science experiment!

I'm sure he'd be willing to send you some beer to try... you know like a science experiment. :tank: Heck, I'll even pay for the shipping.
 
You're right. I concede that it's a great idea now that I see the pictures of the still in use rusty barrels and the fact that he is still alive to post. :rolleyes: If only all ideas could be measured in terms of whether it kills you in year or not.

Applause! Thats F in hilarious. But So True.
:cross:
 
Yikes.

http://www.irontoxicity.net/consequences-of-iron-toxicity.jsp

Consequences of CHRONIC IRON OVERLOAD

Untreated chronic iron overload causes progressive damage to the liver, heart, and endocrine glands, and may eventually lead to premature death. Furthermore, non-specific early symptoms (such as abdominal discomfort and fatigue) may delay diagnosis until severe damage to heart or liver tissues produces clinically apparent symptoms. Therefore at-risk patients (such as those who have received multiple blood transfusions or who have a family history of iron metabolic disorders) should be screened for iron overload.
How iron deposition affects key tissues

The consequences of iron deposition appear to vary in different body tissues. In the heart or liver, hemosiderotic injury can eventually be fatal. In the skin, advanced hemosiderosis produces a characteristic — but benign — bronze pigmentation.

How iron overload damages tissues
When iron is bound to transferrin, ferritin, or other iron transport and storage proteins, it cannot participate in oxidative reactions, and therefore cannot cause cellular damage (3). In iron overloaded patients, the capacity of these proteins to neutralize the damaging effects of iron is exceeded. Excess iron binds weakly to various other low-molecular-weight proteins in the plasma and cells, and in this form propagates cellular damage by peroxidation of organelles such as mitochondria, lysosomes, and sarcoplastic membranes.
 
Its worth it to have a cheap brew setup... Seriously though dude, this is probably really really bad for you.
 
Back
Top