Is this pump food safe?

Hi folks,

I have a mostly functioning automated electric HLT that I have built over the last few weeks. I am writing software to control it remotely, and have passed functional tests for the hardware. The thing I somehow missed in my research was circulation of the water during heating. I have hot and cold spots as I now see I should have suspected.

I would rather solve this problem with a pump than an agitator, mainly because of the expense, but the project has a very tight budget.

I found this pump on ebay and it looks promising: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170925903149

It lsits that it is ROHS,CE,IP68, and EMC compliant, but none of those mean a lot to me. If it was FDA food safe I would know that I would not have to worry about leaching nasties at higher temps. Anyone out there care to hazard a guess if this is safe to use to heat my mash water? It might be maintaining a temp of 170 for an hour or more in the winter so I am a little leery.

Thanks.

If it doesn't say it is food safe, it's not. Otherwise they wouldn't go through the extra manufacturing; it's a feature that would be well advertised on the product.

"This pump is intended for use with water only!"

Not only does this pump not explicitly describe food grade, none of the example uses are food applications. I would say this pump is a no-go.

Thanks guys. That is what I needed to know. I was wanting it to work too much and needed a reality check.

I can't see the ebay listing at the moment but my $0.02:
OP - none of those standards are to do with food grade, they all seem to be talking about the electrical side of the pump.
KB - AFAIK it takes a lot more money/time/QC to register something as food grade. A lot of items that would be ok to use with food would not be listed as food grade because it is an added expence that the target market sees no value in.
OD - Again same thing as for KB.
You have 2 ways to go about this:
1) Buy a pump that states it is "food grade" or,
2) Make sure you get the parts list for the pump and make sure that all the wetted parts are safe to have in contact with your wort.

Check out McMaster.com

pzack said:

Check out McMaster.com

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Thanks, but there is not really a lot on McMaster in the pumps section that I could find for under 100 bucks. If I was in that price range I would use a march pump and be done with it. Since I am trying to do this on the cheap that is a bit rich for my blood.

I did find this: http://www.lightobject.com/High-tem...5GPH-mini-Water-Pump-FDA-Food-grade-P510.aspx

It is not submersible at the temps I would need, so I had to get a reducer, a hose barb and silicone tubing so that I can hook it up to the ball valve on the outside. Still comes in about 38 bucks for the whole solution. Not as cheap as I wanted, but better than a mechanical agitator or a march pump.

I think this might suit your purpose, it is 12v and non submersible and foodgrade
$33 is a bargain.

Edit! link to product
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-1...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item721c2bc78b

Are you going to be ok with it's low flow rate? At 1L/minute, it's a low flow rating. Plus, it has a max head height (distance the pump can push liquid) of just 1 meter (~3 feet). I also see adapting hose to use with it as being at least some issue. With the inlet of 9mm (.35") and the outlet at 7mm (.27") you'll either need to rig up something special, or use at least a reducing barb between your normal tubing and the pump. Also, IMO, with the low push distance/height of the pump (at 7mm ID) you could be looking at more issues. You'll have just 10 days to determine if it will actually work before getting a RMA. You'll also need to get the pump back to the seller within 15 days (so just 5 days after getting the RMA)...

Before purchasing the pump, reach out to the vendor/seller to make sure it's going to actually work for you. A few emails, or minutes on the phone, could save you a lot of headache (and money).

Golddiggie said:

...Before purchasing the pump, reach out to the vendor/seller to make sure it's going to actually work for you. A few emails, or minutes on the phone, could save you a lot of headache (and money).

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Sorry Golddiggie because I don't know which pump you are refering to 1l/min pump is only $13.50. I would not be bothering returning it if it didn't work. Although I would not bother buying it in the first place.

As for the orginal problem I would just give it a stir every time I walk past.

Though, from the same seller there is this for $32.50 - http://www.lightobject.com/High-Tem...ni-DC-12V-Water-Pump-FDA-food-grade-P709.aspx

Originally Posted by mattd2
As for the orginal problem I would just give it a stir every time I walk past.

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That is problematic in the use case as I plan to be asleep when it is running.

Originally Posted by Golddiggie
Are you going to be ok with it's low flow rate? At 1L/minute, it's a low flow rating.Plus, it has a max head height... of just 1 meter.

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I think the flow rate will be alright since it only needs to provide enough of a current to keep all the water moving. A half barel keg is 23" high, and that is what I used for my heating vessel, so the head height is not an issue.

I sort of wish I had gone with the 12V version, but I already had a 5V AC adapter in my box of electronics junk. If the 5/6V version does not work in the end, I will turn it into something cute for my kids to play with, or a sous-vide, since I have never had salmonella before.

Here is what the setup looks like for the curious. I don't plan on using that vinyl tubing connecting the hose barb to the pump. I am waiting on silicone tubing to arrive.

I will go a full scale test when the tubing arrives. If it does not work I will have to get a better pump or an agitator. And then someone else can learn from my mistake, so it is a win either way!

todddav said:

That is problematic in the use case as I plan to be asleep when it is running.

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Hahahaha, fair enough

todddav said:

I think the flow rate will be alright since it only needs to provide enough of a current to keep all the water moving. A half barel keg is 23" high, and that is what I used for my heating vessel, so the head height is not an issue.

I sort of wish I had gone with the 12V version, but I already had a 5V AC adapter in my box of electronics junk. If the 5/6V version does not work in the end, I will turn it into something cute for my kids to play with, or a sous-vide, since I have never had salmonella before.

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Seriously you are cracking me up, mmmm salmon....ella... wait what? But yeah for $13 why would you bother to return it and a little 6V pump can always have some sort of place somewhere

todddav said:

Here is what the setup looks like for the curious. I don't plan on using that vinyl tubing connecting the hose barb to the pump. I am waiting on silicone tubing to arrive.

I will go a full scale test when the tubing arrives. If it does not work I will have to get a better pump or an agitator. And then someone else can learn from my mistake, so it is a win either way!

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That is some seriously quick shipping, or did you pick it up local? Looks good, I would estimate that you would get 1/2 the max flow @ 1/2 the max head. So about 500ml/min, might not be enough to "stir" the pot though, but just taking from one side and dropping back in the other might be enough. You would turn over a 5 gallon batches strike water ever 26 mins or so which would probably be1.5-2 times in the space of heating it. Otherwise it could make a nice MLT recirc pump or even draining to a kettle as 0.5 - 1 l/min is what they recomend for fly sparging.

Any updates here? I'm thinking about setting up some kind of eBIAB setup with a recirculating pump and am trying to find some ways to keep cost down.

inhousebrew said:

Any updates here?

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The holiday got the better of me and I did nothing since last week. I just set the pump and hlt to running in the garage with 10 gallons of water and set the timer for an hour. I'll go out and spot check temp in different areas of the vessel and let you know what I find.

Okay, here is the update: In a nutshell I will declare this experiment a success.. I took readings with a digital thermometer in several regions of the tank at 100 deg F and 130 deg F. All readings were within 2 degrees of each other. The highest reading was right over the heating element. Without it the swing would have only been around one degree.

I was aiming the return tube downward and across the bottom of the keg to get a convection style current. Not sure what the effect would be if it was a whirlpool. Not sure if this matters. Better to have too much information, I guess...

In the final analysis, I think that the 12V version of this pump might be a better choice since it is virtually the same price and has a higher flow. It you want to go with that $38 non-submersible pump, you can be sure it will do the job.

Now I have to go read about keeping an arduino uno from resetting when you connect over a serial line. Sorry if this is rushed. Please respond with questions. Thank you as always to this incredibly helpful and knowledgeable community.

mattd2 said:

That is some seriously quick shipping, or did you pick it up local? .

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I paid an extra 2 buck to get it faster in case it was junk and I needed to get another. I also live in the Philadelphia area, which seems to be at some sort of nexus of shipping networks. Yay rust belt!

todddav said:

All readings were within 2 degrees of each other. The highest reading was right over the heating element. Without it the swing would have only been around one degree.

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I should say that when I used this without the pump, I was 15 degrees higher than my target temp when I stirred the tank. That was with only 7 or 8 gallons of liquid, so 1 to 2 degrees on ~10 gallons is wwwwwaaay better.

Thanks for posting this experiment. I'm currently eyeing up the $38 one you mentioned. I noticed that these pumps are not self priming and need to be placed below the liquid level; is attaching them to the ball valve at the bottom of the kettle is good enough to get them going? And if so will they then be able to drain the kettle to the bottom? I'm thinking about the ability to be able to run them through a plate chiller for cooling.

inhousebrew said:

Thanks for posting this experiment. I'm currently eyeing up the $38 one you mentioned. I noticed that these pumps are not self priming and need to be placed below the liquid level; is attaching them to the ball valve at the bottom of the kettle is good enough to get them going?

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yeah, since this is a low pressure operation, I opened the ball valve and pulled the smaller 'return' silicone tube off off the pump. It squirts a little water, and I jam the tube back in place and we are good to go. If you don't prime the one I have like this, it will not get going. It is no good at pumping air.

And if so will they then be able to drain the kettle to the bottom? I'm thinking about the ability to be able to run them through a plate chiller for cooling.

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hese pumps are /tiny/. I mean really small. I am not a pump expert in any way, but this one: http://www.lightobject.com/High-Tem...ni-DC-12V-Water-Pump-FDA-food-grade-P709.aspx does 108 GPH. A standard homebrew march pump goes at about 360GPH. So you could use one to pump through a plate chiller, but it will take a bit longer. You could theoretically put 3 in parallel, but at that point you won't be saving any money, and you would have to wire it all up yourself. Just my opinion.