Red IPA Grains Question

I'm interested in making a red IPA, but I want the red color with as little flavor difference as possible from a regular IPA. I'm not interested in using food coloring, but I want it to be a noticeable red/scarlet, not too brown.

I did a little research but can't seem to find any consensus on the best grains and amounts to use to do this. I am an extract brewer, currently.

On a side note, I'm going to be using Columbus hops through and through, if you have any tips on that as well. I'm also going to do half the batch with a regular ale yeast and half with a Belgian strain, just to see which one i like more.

CaraRed and Melanoiden Malt impart red color to the beer and are used in small quantities to my knowledge. How small and added flavors I'm not sure about

Here's my first stab at it. Not sure if ~15 srm is where I want to be, these color scales are kind of confusing...

I'm going to do half the batch with the WLP001 yeast and half with a Belgian yeast, just for fun


Type: Extract
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 3.67 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: Pot ( 4 Gal/15.1 L) - Extract
End of Boil Volume 3.38 gal
Final Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 3 68.6 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 4 11.4 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Carared (20.0 SRM) Grain 1 17.1 %
4.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 2.9 %
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 39.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 23.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.063
Est Final Gravity: 1.010
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.0%
Bitterness: 62.3 IBUs
Est Color: 14.6 SRM

I wouldn't be too keen on the roasted barley. It has a pretty strong flavor. Maybe Carafa Special III "dehusked" would be a better option. It's "debittered" and should have a milder flavor impact.

I'd take out the roasted barley, as it's more brown than red, and it has a strong roasty flavor.

I'd use just carared for color.

Carared lends a dark brown color so don't be fooled by the name.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Carastan, CaraAmber, or CaraAroma will provide a much more noticeable red color. And depending on the other ingredients in the recipe, black malt in small amounts will give a red tinge to a beer. Using 1 to 2 oz. or so will not add much roastiness at all to the final flavor.

I just did a Desert Combat Red extract recipe using light DME and 2oz of black patent malt. Turned a really nice red color, but there is a slight sharpness to it. maybe 1.5oz would have been better.

I did an imperial red last week, I'll post pictures when it's done, but it won't be for a few weeks.

14 lbs 2-row
1 lb CaraRed
0.5 lb corn sugar
US-05

2 oz Bravo, 60 min
1 oz each Simcoe, Columbus, 10 min
1 oz each Simcoe, Columbus, 0 min
dry hop 2 oz each Simcoe, Columbus

Everyone that has brewed it seems to like this one by TimBrewz pretty well. It's about 3rd on my list of must-brews.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/india-red-ale-160034/

Pale Ale Malt 6.5 lbs
Munich type 1 (10L) 5 lbs.
Crystal 40L .75 lbs
Crystal 90L .5 lbs
Black malt 1 oz

All whole hops
Simcoe(13% aa) 1 oz 60 min
Amarillo(9.3% aa)1 oz 30 min
Cascade (7% aa)1 oz 5 min

Simcoe .5 oz dry hops
Amarillo 1 oz dry hops
Cascade .5 oz dry hops

Mash 153 for 60 min
Collect 7 gallons
Boil 90 min

American Ale yeast.

Ferment 10 days primary, 7 days secondary with dry hops. Enjoy.
Boil 90 min.

mikeho said:

I did an imperial red last week, I'll post pictures when it's done, but it won't be for a few weeks.

14 lbs 2-row
1 lb CaraRed
0.5 lb corn sugar
US-05

2 oz Bravo, 60 min
1 oz each Simcoe, Columbus, 10 min
1 oz each Simcoe, Columbus, 0 min
dry hop 2 oz each Simcoe, Columbus

Click to expand...

Nice recipe. I'd imagine you would get something more gold/copper though.

What was the OG and projected FG? How about mash temp and boil size, batch size?

bobbrews said:

Nice recipe. What was the OG and projected FG? How about mash temp and boil size, batch size?

Click to expand...

OG 1.076, usually US-05 finishes this grain bill around 1.016 for me. Mashed 60 min at 150. 7 gal boil, 5.5 gal into fermenter.

mikeho said:

OG 1.076, usually US-05 finishes this grain bill around 1.016 for me. Mashed 60 min at 150. 7 gal boil, 5.5 gal into fermenter.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I just borrowed your recipe with some minor tweaks.

http://hopville.com/recipe/1258005/imperial-ipa-recipes/big-red

try some C120

You might try cold steeping the CaraRed.

mrgstiffler said:

You might try cold steeping the CaraRed.

Click to expand...

Interesting...do you have experience with cold steeping? Does it get less color extraction than warm steeping or pretty much the same?

I can cold steep some black patent, not sure if I want to do that with some/all of the carared or if I want to extract some flavor from that too?

Also, does my hop schedule look good? I definitely want to use all Columbus hops (it's gonna be an "Ohio State" brew, hence the Columbus hops and scarlet color), and I've heard mixed reviews on using Columbus for flavor/aroma.

2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 39.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 23.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Total 62.3 IBU's

jeffdill said:

Interesting...do you have experience with cold steeping? Does it get less color extraction than warm steeping or pretty much the same?

I can cold steep some black patent, not sure if I want to do that with some/all of the carared or if I want to extract some flavor from that too?

Also, does my hop schedule look good? I definitely want to use all Columbus hops (it's gonna be an "Ohio State" brew, hence the Columbus hops and scarlet color), and I've heard mixed reviews on using Columbus for flavor/aroma.

2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 39.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 23.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Total 62.3 IBU's

Click to expand...

As for the patent, the recipe I posted back on page 1 just has one oz of black malt in the mash instead of cold steeped. It was stated that the flavor was hardly noticable with all of the crystal malt (actually said that they didn't notice it until they brewed the beer without it), but that it gave the beer a nice red hue.

And for the Columbus, how much experience do you have with it? I personally like Centennial better. I think Centennial has a fruitier taste, and a cleaner, less in-your-face bitterness. Just my personal preference though.

Also, I'm not sure if you're trying to do a hop burst technique, but you would save quite a bit of hops if you moved one OZ to 60min, and then spread the rest out after 20min. I believe a half OZ @ 60, 20, 10, and 5 would get you the same IBU - which is 2oz VS 6oz used in the boil. Again....just my 2 cents.

Also read about Carafa Special - maybe that's a good way to go?

Pdeezy said:

And for the Columbus, how much experience do you have with it? I personally like Centennial better. I think Centennial has a fruitier taste, and a cleaner, less in-your-face bitterness. Just my personal preference though.

Click to expand...

I've never used Columbus hops before...but I was going to make this an "Ohio State Scarlet IPA" (I'll come up with a clever name, haven't been struck with inspiration yet), which is why I want a red/scarlet color and want to use only Columbus hops (since Ohio State is in Columbus, OH). I guess I want to make it as good as I can given these two constraints, I know it probably won't be phenomenal.

Pdeezy said:

Also, I'm not sure if you're trying to do a hop burst technique, but you would save quite a bit of hops if you moved one OZ to 60min, and then spread the rest out after 20min. I believe a half OZ @ 60, 20, 10, and 5 would get you the same IBU - which is 2oz VS 6oz used in the boil. Again....just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm trying hop-bursting...I've heard really good things about it, and I love IPA's with strong hop aroma and flavor. A pound of Columbus hops is just $15 on Northernbrewer so I'm not too concerned about the price.

I included the dextrose to try to dry it out a bit and I'll use some gypsum to get the hop aroma to pop.

Here's my revised recipe. I think I would actually use debittered black malt, but that wasn't available as an option in BeerSmith.

Thoughts? It's hard to tell if ~16 SRM is where I want to be from the color estimation.

_______________________

Buck-IPA
American IPA
Type: Extract
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Brewer: jeffdill
Boil Size: 3.67 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: Pot ( 4 Gal/15.1 L) - Extract
End of Boil Volume 3.38 gal
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 3 78.6 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1 6.6 %
2.1 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 2 1.7 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 4 13.1 %
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 39.6 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 23.7 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.9 %
Bitterness: 63.3 IBUs
Est Color: 15.9 SRM

jeffdill said:

"Ohio State Scarlet IPA" (I'll come up with a clever name, haven't been struck with inspiration yet), which is why I want a red/scarlet color and want to use only Columbus hops (since Ohio State is in Columbus, OH).

Click to expand...

Buck-eyePA?

I would really drop all those late additions down to 1oz. Maybe keep the 2oz @ 20, but drop the 10 and 0 down to 1oz. 2oz would be about right for a full batch. But you're doing 3.5 gallons.

mrgstiffler said:

I would really drop all those late additions down to 1oz. Maybe keep the 2oz @ 20, but drop the 10 and 0 down to 1oz. 2oz would be about right for a full batch. But you're doing 3.5 gallons.

Click to expand...

It is a full batch...I'm topping it off with water to reach 5 gallons at the end, I'm just boiling 3.5 gallons since I'm doing it on the stove

jeffdill said:

It is a full batch...I'm topping it off with water to reach 5 gallons at the end, I'm just boiling 3.5 gallons since I'm doing it on the stove

Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense then. You'll have to report back and let us know how it went.

I'm going to be doing my first all-grain batch in the next week or two so I messed around with an all-grain version of this recipe. What do you think?

Hop-along Scarlet IPA
American IPA
Type: All Grain Date: 4/9/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.04 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: Pot and Cooler ( 5 Gal/19 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 6.50 gal
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.10 gal


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
11 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 81.4 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.5 %
2.1 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 0.9 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 14.2 %
1.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 35.5 IBUs
1.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 21.2 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.2 %
Bitterness: 56.7 IBUs
Est Color: 13.5 SRM

Looks good. I have tried hop bursting (all hop additions at 20 min or after) and it didn't end up bitter enough for me, but you should see how you like it. Columbus ftw

New iteration - I think my SRM should be closer to 12.5, from a little research I did:

11.75 lbs Pale Malt (2 row) US
1.5 lbs Munich Malt
5 oz Crystal 120L
2 oz Black (Patent) Malt
1.5 oz Columbus (20 min)
1.5 oz Coumbus (10 min)
2 oz Columbus (flameout)
2 oz Columbus (dry hop)

SG = 1.065
ABV = 7.0%
IBU's = 57.5
Color = 12.5 SRM

I'm brewing up an imperial red IPA on Friday (Friday the 13th). According to Beersmith it should come in around 18 SRM, which is too high for an IIPA, but I'm not concerned about it. I basically started with the Pliny recipe and added some of the grains from Jamil's Evil Twin to get a red color to it. Also ordered an extra pound of two row by accident, but my efficiency is probably going to be a little low anyway with 16.5 lbs of grain. This is off the top of my head, so I'm not entirely sure how accurate the recipe is.

Camp Blood Imperial Red IPA

O.G. Something like 1.074
F.G. Somewhere near 1.013
SRM about 18
IBU >100

Grain Bill
11.5 lbs American Two Row
2 lbs Munich
8 oz CaraPils
1 lb Crystal 40
8 oz Crystal 120
8 oz Victory
4 oz Pale Chocolate
4 oz Special B
1 lb Corn Sugar

Hops
3 oz Columbus 90 min
.5 oz Columbus 45 min
1 oz Simcoe 20 min
1 oz Centennial flame out
2.5 oz Simcoe flame out

1 oz Columbus dry hop 13 days
1 oz Simcoe dry hop 13 days
1 oz Centennial dry hop 13 days

.25 oz Columbus dry hop 5 days
.25 oz Simcoe dry hop 5 days
.25 Centennial dry hop 5 days

Single infusion mash at I think 151 F for 60 min

I'll come back in and post results later on. The grain bill looks like a mess, but I'm pretty hopeful it'll turn out good. The hop schedule is basically the Pliny recipe only I scaled back the bittering additions a little and moved the first Simcoe addition from 30 to 20.

@ktblunden

I like the grist aside from Special B, Crystal 120, and that miniscule amount of Victory. I would remove those and bump up the Munich and Carapils a bit - along with Chocolate, CaraAroma, or Carafa if you want something a bit darker and/or more complex. Is this mainly a color venture, or do you actually want roasty, pruney, caramel sweet flavors in there?

I like the flameout hop additions, but the bittering is kind of out of control for my tastes and I love Pliny. With the lackluster dryhop and no real focus on 'middle' additions, you will probably get something much different than you expect. Good luck!

bobbrews said:

@ktblunden

I like the grist aside from Special B, Crystal 120, and that miniscule amount of Victory. I would remove those and bump up the Munich and Carapils a bit - along with Chocolate, CaraAroma, or Carafa if you want something a bit darker and/or more complex. Is this mainly a color venture, or do you actually want roasty, pruney, caramel sweet flavors in there?

I like the flameout hop additions, but the bittering is kind of out of control for my tastes and I love Pliny. With the lackluster dryhop and no real focus on 'middle' additions, you will probably get something much different than you expect. Good luck!

Click to expand...

I'm after both color and some of the flavors from the grains. As to the bittering hops, the Pliny recipe actually puts 3.5 oz Columbus at 90 and .75 at 45. That's off the brew sheet pdf that (supposedly) came from Vinny.

It's purely an experiment at this point and I figure the next go around I'll tweak it based on the results from this batch. I unfortunately can't make any grain changes at this point as they're all mixed.

How would you alter the middle additions and dry hop?

ktblunden said:

As to the bittering hops, the Pliny recipe actually puts 3.5 oz Columbus at 90 and .75 at 45. That's off the brew sheet pdf that (supposedly) came from Vinny.

Click to expand...

I know, but in that Pliny PDF, you boil 8 gallons and are left with 5 post fermentation. It isn't your typical 6 to 6.5 boil for a 5 gallon batch. The aa% of the hops in that recipe are also fairly low. My CTZ is 17.1, Centennial is 11.2, and Simcoe is 13.8.

ktblunden said:

How would you alter the middle additions and dry hop?

Click to expand...

I would move 20 to 15 or 10 and triple up on that addition as a whole. I would dryhop at the rate of 0.75 oz. hops per gallon of beer. So for a 5 gallon batch, 3.75 oz. dryhops (which it appears is what you have now after the changes). Before I was only seeing three, 0.25 oz dryhop additions.

bobbrews said:

I know, but in that Pliny PDF, you boil 8 gallons and are left with 5 post fermentation. It isn't your typical 6 to 6.5 boil for a 5 gallon batch. The aa% of the hops in that recipe are also fairly low. My CTZ is 17.1, Centennial is 11.2, and Simcoe is 13.8.

Click to expand...

Ah, got it. I am actually planning on running 8 gallons like the Pliny recipe and my aa%s are actually pretty similar to what the recipe calls for. Your CTZ is way higher than what I have on hand. If I was at home I would have posted the actual %s of what I have.

bobbrews said:

I would move 20 to 15 or 10 and triple up on that addition as a whole. I would dryhop at the rate of 0.75 oz. hops per gallon of beer. So for a 5 gallon batch, 3.75 oz. dryhops (which it appears is what you have now after the changes). Before I was only seeing three, 0.25 oz dryhop additions.

Click to expand...

Beefing up the 20 (or 15 or 10 as the case may be) would you beef it up with just straight Simcoe or add some other stuff in? In addition to the CTZ and Centennial I also have some Amarillo, how do you think that would go with the Simcoe? I'm trying to save what little Simcoe I have left for another recipe, but I could probably free up another ounce of it. I thought maybe you hadn't seen the 3 ounces of dry hops for 13 days, I probably should have grouped all the dry additions together.

Thanks for your input man, I appreciate it.

All the hops you mentioned work extremely well together. Any combination will work just fine. The only thing I'd be worried about is how the hops play with the malt/yeast selection. Good luck!

Cool, I might toss in some Amarillo for good measure at the flavor addition. Thanks!

I think your hop schedule will be fine. I have made the Pliny from the pdf 3 times, and it's been great. I have also made Jamil's Evil Twin, and it didn't come out very red for me, so hopefully you will have better luck. I will be bottling my imperial red, recipe above, in a few days, so I'll post a picture of that. Incidentally, I decided to divide the dry hop into 2 separate additions, based on the success of the Pliny clone.