Ripple element kettle clearance?

Maybe a silly question, but doesn't using a ripple element with stationary threads on the kettle problematic? What I mean is, you'd want to install it as low as possible but if you weld/solder a coupling or nut to the wall, wouldn't it need to be up high enough that the swing of the ripples would clear the bottom of the pot?

If so, I think there are three different options:

1. Use the ripple but mount the fixed bulkhead high enough for clearance.
2. Use the ripple but go weldless so that the element doesn't have to spin.
3. Use the LWD foldback element and mount it low (welded or weldless no matter).

Yes! You have a clear understanding of the issues. I designed my system to be able to use the S-shaped elements. That said, I am back to the straight ones (folded over). I did not find the S-shaped CAMCO elements to resist dry firing. The straight ones are easier to clean as well. My BK is a 55 gal SS drum and bending over with my head in the BK scrubbing the elements is the least favorite part of my brew day.

You used the Camco 2933?

the S-shaped element I used was the Camco 2953, which is the 4500 watt version. I currently use rheem elements.

I wonder if there is a time limit on dry-firing? I could imagine many seconds would be alright, but maybe not many minutes. I've dry fired my elements for seconds just to check them. Never got them red though.

I use 2 of the camco RIPP 5500W elements. Yes, if you weld the 1" nut to the keg you'll need to install the elements so the ripples don't hit the bottom when they are screwed in.

But the bottom of sanke kegs (not kettles) is rounded, so I think you could mount it very very low.

I mounted mine at about the 3 gallon mark, but I could have gone lower. I have a dip tube down there (from a ball valve) that would interfere it I got the element too low.

Mounting it as low as possible is a good idea as it 1) lets you make smaller batches, 2) lets you get the element going earlier in the sparge, and 3) minimizes the stratification you get in there (not important for BK, but a real problem for HLT temp control)

stevehaun said:

Yes! You have a clear understanding of the issues. I designed my system to be able to use the S-shaped elements. That said, I am back to the straight ones (folded over). I did not find the S-shaped CAMCO elements to resist dry firing. The straight ones are easier to clean as well. My BK is a 55 gal SS drum and bending over with my head in the BK scrubbing the elements is the least favorite part of my brew day.

Click to expand...

I dry-fired mine once, for about 10 seconds. Elements did survive (whew) but it burned off 2-years of grime that was on the element; there was a lot of smoke. That was the first good cleaning they've gotten! (they usually just get hosed, and occasionally some oxyclean; very rarely brushed)

One thing I realized when mounting my 120v elements is that the final position has a lot to do with ease of cleaning. Though the 120v elements are just 'U' shaped--I mounted these flat (parrallel to the floor) and trying to clean the undersides is very difficult. If rotated 45 or 90 degrees, they would be easier to brush when I am cleaning. Not so easy with a ripple element, but rotating the foldback style a bit would make cleaning the underside a bit easier. This was one of the reasons why I chose to mount the elements at about the 3 gal 'mark'.

As you said though, with weldless fittings that is a nice luxury...what about screwing the element into the nut, then matchmarking the final position before welding? If you are particular about the final rotational resting place of the element, this could get you where you need to go?

Bobby_M said:

Maybe a silly question, but doesn't using a ripple element with stationary threads on the kettle problematic? What I mean is, you'd want to install it as low as possible but if you weld/solder a coupling or nut to the wall, wouldn't it need to be up high enough that the swing of the ripples would clear the bottom of the pot?

If so, I think there are three different options:

1. Use the ripple but mount the fixed bulkhead high enough for clearance.
2. Use the ripple but go weldless so that the element doesn't have to spin.
3. Use the LWD foldback element and mount it low (welded or weldless no matter).

Click to expand...

You could always attach the element Kal style and put the lock nut on the inside of the kettle. The O-ring is on the outside held in place with a shim washer. It appears there are enough threads to hold it. I'm not sure if you use a keggle if that would be the case. Has anyone done this?

I used a straight 4500w element in my kettle. Had some scorching issues so I decided to go with the 5500w ripple. Completely forgot about the clearance issues and was pretty mad when I tried to screw the darn thing in. I gently bent the element until it would spin in, but it was not a fun project.

Next time, if I ever change it out I'd consider a Tri-Clover install.

That is why I had to go weldless with my new kettle. I needed it as low as possible to clear the crab basket. My e/keggle was welded at about the 2.5 gallon mark.

samc said:

I used a straight 4500w element in my kettle. Had some scorching issues so I decided to go with the 5500w ripple.

Click to expand...

Was that the fold back one that scorched or a HWD? It looks like the difference between the 5500w ripple and foldback is 50w/sq in vs 75w/sq in. It doesn't seem like that big of a difference.

It was a fold back - not Camco, don't remember the brand. I was surprised by the scorching, may have been related to gummy wort from acid rests with BIAB. I've stopped that process but changed out the element just in case and gave up on cleaning off the charred burnt on crud.

Ah, I wasn't putting it together but it wouldn't be a concern in a pure boil kettle I assume.

I have the 2" version of this waiting to go into my next BK. I have not yet tested the clearance for the RIPP element. I can check it out tonight and report back...

the ale master:
If I had it to do over, that is the route I would go.

The "RIPP" element won't work in the Tri-Clover element adapter. At least not the 5500w. Maybe the 4500w one would work if it is different dimensions. That's okay. I am just fine with using a foldback in order to use the adapter from Brewer's Hardware.

Bobby,

I chose #1. Not exactly related, but something to think about. When I welded my nut to my keg, I first threaded the nut on the element with an o-ring in place with the amount of force I thought made for a good seal, held the element so the ripples were horizontal, and noted which flat of the nut was where (up, down, to the side at a 45 degree angle, etc.). I then welded the nut to the keg in the correct orientation.

Welding will throw it slightly out of whack due to a little bit of nut warpage, but giving the element a slight twist will make the ripples horizontal again. You also have a little room to adjust because the o-ring is pretty squishy. A little keg lube on it really enables you to fine tune the clocking of it when you're installing it.

Having to change elements might present a little bit of a problem if the new one on like 90 degrees off or something, but between the squishy o-ring and twisting the element you should be able to get the ripples pretty much horizontal. I'm not worrying about it.
I also don't think you really want to install the element as low as possible. You wouldn't want the element totally under your hops if you did a really hoppy beer with whole leaf hops.

If you are positioning the element high enough to rotate it when threading it in, why do you need to get the final position horizontal? Seems to me that the the important thing is only to get it to seal to the threads.

In my BK I went with a soldered 1" lock-nut located 4" up from the bottom. This allows enough room for removing the element, but the dip tube does need to come out first for clearance. In my HLT I went with a weldless set-up, the Herms coil is 1 1/2" above the element and if I went with a fixed nut I would have had to remove the coil if I ever needed to change out the element which is a PITA.

ChuckO said:

If you are positioning the element high enough to rotate it when threading it in, why do you need to get the final position horizontal? Seems to me that the the important thing is only to get it to seal to the threads.

Click to expand...

I didn't use the threads to seal, I used a o-ring, so the seal is going to happen regardless while giving a little adjustment. You shouldn't really use the threads to seal anyway because they aren't tapered pipe threads, but that's a topic for a different thread! I know people do it, but I'm not into it.

Anyway, with an element as opposed to an electric stove burner or propane, the heat source is very concentrated, i.e., not spread out over the whole surface area of the bottom of the vessel. Placing the ripples horizontally should result in a slightly more even boil instead a small area in the vessel with bubbles coming up. Even with the ripples horizontal, the area that is actually bubbling is pretty small, so I'm glad mine is totally horizontal.

I also have a hop stopper in my keggle, so I wanted as much clearance between the element and it so the element ripples wouldn't be dipping into hop debris should any be sitting on top of the hop stopper. I also wanted to be able to remove the hop stopper for cleaning without taking the element out. If my ripples were vertical, it probable wouldn't happen as I can just squeak the hop stopper by the element to remove or install it as is.

I put 1" NPT couplers on my keggle (Anheuser keg) and put the center of the coupler at exactly 4" from the floor and it was the perfect height for the RIPP 550W element.