I'm a bit confused about batch sparging (1st all-grain)

Going to brew Northern Brewer's Irish Red Ale a/g kit tomorrow... I'm using 15gal+10gal kettles, and 10gal cooler MLT.

I'm looking at the ProMash Recipe Report provided by NB, and I see the specifics - but I'm not 100% on the process.

What I understand:

• Mash at 153F for 60mins (so, strike water needs to be 167 going into MLT) for 8.75lbs of grain
• I need to account for grain absorption, which is different among systems
• I need to produce about ~6 gal (5.88) of wort total, using 2 separate runnings.

EdWort's Haus Pale Ale sheds a bit of light on the batch sparge process, but I would need to make temp/amount adjustments.

1. Pre-heat cooler
2. Dough-In 3.5 gallons of 167F (to hit 153F) water to MLT for 60mins
3. Prepare 4.5 gallons of 175F water in the meantime
4. At the end of 60mins, add the 1.25 gallons of 175F water
5. Vorlauf as needed, drain to kettle
6. Sparge with remaining 3.25 gallons of 175F water.

How does my process look? I should note that I own BeerSmith 2, but I'm overwhelmed by the amount of options and tweaks, so I'd like to do a few all-grains by ear...

looks good to me.

Don't forget to close the spigot on the mash tun before you add the sparge water. Then add the sparge water and stir it all up so the water disolves the remaining sugars on the grains. Then vorlauf and drain clear wort to the kettle.

Yep, what you have looks pretty good:

A couple of things:

If you over-heat your strike water, you can pre-heat your MLT with that. So heat to 185ish, add to MT, wait for water to get to 167 then dough in.

Grain absorption usually goes around 0.15gal/lb grain...so for this recipe you can expect somewhere around 1.3gallons absorbed. So if you mash in with 3.5gallons, add another 1.25 gallons of mash-out water you should expect 3.5 +1.25 -1.3 = 3.4 gallons out.

This calculation does NOT account for any deadspace you have in your MT...so that 3.4 gallons could be much less.

If you get around 3 gallons out of your first runnings, then 3.25 gallons of sparge should get you close to 6 gallons pre-boil. As a hedge, I'd heat more sparge water (4-5 gallons) so you have it in case your first runnings come up short.

Remember to mix really well whenever adding water, and to vorlauf before collecting any runnings.

Take accurate temperatures, volume measurements, and hydrometer readings to keep track of how your system works.

Good luck!

Thanks for the tips, I'm writing these "notes" down.

I'm using a SS braid, so MLT dead-space is negligible. Just to be clear (no pun), I do not stir in my vorlauf back in, but I must stir any mash/sparge water added, right?

Edit: I have already notched some measuring dowels for my 10/15gal pots, and picked up a decent CDN thermometer. I don't, however, have a refractometer and I don't intend to take a hydro reading until wort is chilled (this time)

scotched said:

Thanks for the tips, I'm writing these "notes" down.

I'm using a SS braid, so MLT dead-space is negligible. Just to be clear (no pun), I do not stir in my vorlauf back in, but I must stir any mash/sparge water added, right?

Edit: I have already notched some measuring dowels for my 10/15gal pots, and picked up a decent CDN thermometer. I don't, however, have a refractometer and I don't intend to take a hydro reading until wort is chilled (this time)

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Yes, no stir on the vorllauf...that is while you are draining your "clear" runnings so you do not want to disturb the grain. As said above, your strike temp of 167 is sitting in the tun before you add the grain. Also, just a hint, your mash temp will likely seem high immediately after adding the grain, you will need to wait a few minutes for the temp to stabilize while you keep stiring well...dont start making adjustments on the fly...give it 5 or so to come to temp before you panic. Also your sparge additions could likely be a bit higher, say 185 to raise the grain temp during the sparge, but it will still stay under the 170 limit recommended for max grain bed temp ...

No, do not stir your vorlauf just slowly pour the collected wort back over the top of the grain bed and when it runs clear begin to collect wort then. I would also suggest just cracking the valve when you vorlauf, it takes a while but I find that when you do, you need to vorlauf less (could just be my system) and when you open the valve fully to drain the MT do it slowly, I almost had a stuck mash the other day because I opened too quickly. The idea is to let the grain bed settle into a filter, if you open the valve too quickly you can potentially suck the grain bed down and you have a stuck sparge.

Do you by chance have a Droid? If so, get Brewzor. All the calcs are there and easy. There are other free apps for (other) phones. Good luck.

No droid. Only a p.o.s. phone that won't die.

I think I have most of the things figured out for tomorrow's brew. I'll probably spend the night obsessing over brewing videos until I'm at information overload. Thanks guys

broadbill said:

As a hedge, I'd heat more sparge water (4-5 gallons) so you have it in case your first runnings come up short.

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All you have to do to get sparge volume is look into your kettle and see how much room you have left after the first runoff. For example, if there's 2.5 gallons of first runnings and you want 6 gallons preboil, sparge volume is 3.5. This is an advantage to batch sparging.

944play said:

All you have to do to get sparge volume is look into your kettle and see how much room you have left after the first runoff. For example, if there's 2.5 gallons of first runnings and you want 6 gallons preboil, sparge volume is 3.5. This is an advantage to batch sparging.

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Right, but I like to have the sparge water already hot and ready to go by the time the first runoff is done. That is why I heat more water than necessary. I don't want to be caught short if the volume of first runnings is less than what I expected it to be.

I actually was going to post a comment similar to yours in response to the Droid App plug. Its pretty simple math we are talking about here, no app needed.

Don't be afraid to go a little hotter on the sparge water, 185F is still fine. Correct, no stir on the vorlauf but stir the hell out of the mash when you add the sparge water. Also, you vorlauf before every runoff.

broadbill said:

Right, but I like to have the sparge water already hot and ready to go by the time the first runoff is done. That is why I heat more water than necessary. I don't want to be caught short if the volume of first runnings is less than what I expected it to be.

I actually was going to post a comment similar to yours in response to the Droid App plug. Its pretty simple math we are talking about here, no app needed.

Click to expand...

If your short on volume in the brew pot you can always do a second batch sparge. Or you could simply top up the brew pot with water. You can add liquid to the brew pot at any time during the boil. So really don't worry it will all work out. RDWHAHB

Last Question:

Does grain absorption only happen once, on the initial infusion?

scotched said:

Last Question:

Does grain absorption only happen once, on the initial infusion?

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Short answer = yes

Long answer = absorption happens once. But the ability to run off wort is effected by gravity. Higher gravity wort (like in the first runnings) will cling to the grain. When the gravity is lowered (during the sparge) the less wort will cling to the grain. Meaning that when you batch sparge you can expect to get more wort out then the volume of sparge water you put in. I know it's complicated. It will make more sense after you have gone thru the process a few times.

Best thing is to just take it easy and relax. Think, plan, do. Take notes.

AG in a nutshell is soaking grain in hot water for a period of time and then draining the sugar water for your boil. Keep it simple as you are learning a new process with new equipment.

Don't freak out if you don't hit your 153 mash. If you're +/-5 degrees it's not the end of the world. You're going to effect body and fermentables, but it's still going to be beer. Have a few quarts of hot and cold water around to adjust if you want. Be sure to stir and take temp from different places to get a real temperature.

Biggest two things are take it easy and take notes.

scotched said:

Last Question:

Does grain absorption only happen once, on the initial infusion?

Click to expand...

Grain absorption has the biggest effect on the volume of the first runnings...at least in my system, with subsequent water I add (e.g. Sparge) ---what goes in comes out.

Hope this helps.

Bobby_M said:

Don't be afraid to go a little hotter on the sparge water, 185F is still fine. Correct, no stir on the vorlauf but stir the hell out of the mash when you add the sparge water. Also, you vorlauf before every runoff.

Click to expand...

I'm doing my first all grain this weekend and I have been reading this post to help my process. So the temp suggest here is above the 170 mark where apparently there is a higher rate of tannin extraction, is that just to raise the temp of the grain bed to 170 or are you saying to go a little hotter so long as you stir like crazy too cool it quickly?


Another Batch sparging question, I have heard/read that multiple (2 or 3) batch sparges leads to high efficiencies (to point ie 10 is stupid) through more complete rinsing. How many do other people do and have they noticed an increase in efficiency.

Clem

Clementine said:

I'm doing my first all grain this weekend and I have been reading this post to help my process. So the temp suggest here is above the 170 mark where apparently there is a higher rate of tannin extraction, is that just to raise the temp of the grain bed to 170 or are you saying to go a little hotter so long as you stir like crazy too cool it quickly?


Another Batch sparging question, I have heard/read that multiple (2 or 3) batch sparges leads to high efficiencies (to point ie 10 is stupid) through more complete rinsing. How many do other people do and have they noticed an increase in efficiency.

Clem

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If you add 190F water to a 150F gain bed it may end up close to 170F. That is why you use hotter water to sparge.

I do a single batch because it saves time. A second run may boost your efficiency a few points. The 3rd time really doesn't get you much. Kai Trioister did some great experiments on this. I suggest you google his site and read. He's got an amazing wealth of info.

I'm currently mashing right now, taking a bunch of notes. Outside brewing has it's ups and downs.

Regardless, I'm pretty jazzed to be doing this. It took me over 3 months of collecting info and equipment. HBT baby.