Torn about base grain

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Funkenjaeger

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I recently ran out of base grain and ordered a sack of maris otter, at the recommendation of some people here, particularly Evan!. I'm thinking of ordering another sack of grain as well, because I now realize how quickly a single sack of base grain can fly by, especially since I'm contemplating doing some higher-gravity brews and hopefully trying some 10-gallon batches soon as well.

I've been thinking about pilsner malt, but I'm torn. I can't lager, so I don't have too much use for pilsner malt, however I see it's called for in a lot of belgian recipes, and I'd like to try brewing some belgians. Is it reasonable to substitute pale malt for pilsner in a belgian? And is pilsner malt more useful than I realize, outside of lagers and belgians? It's just that if belgians are the only thing I use pilsner malt for, I'm not sure I would be able to go through a whole sack of it in a reasonable amount of time, in which case pale malt would be a better investment, at least until some time when I have more spare cash.

I'm still highly tempted to instead get pale malt, either 2-row or a second sack of maris otter. In that case, would it be worth it to have both 2-row and MO on hand, or do you maris otter lovers generally use it exclusively?

So... Opinions?
 
I keep both maris otter and plain 2-row. I tend to only use the maris otter when I know I'll be able to taste it. For example I don't use it in my stouts because I can't tell that it's there, but my bitters and pale ales are maris otter based. I don't think maris otter would be a good substitute for pilsner malt, but standard 2-row would be an OK substitute.
 
I use MO all the time. The only time I'd use something else is for wheat beers. I agree with bradsul that the 2-row is better when you can't taste it. The MO would be wasted in those cases...
 
You could look into golden promise. It is similar to MO, but some feel it is actually superior. Depending on what you like and where you order, you could do 25 lbs of pils and 25 of something else. Having a healthy on-hand stock of munich is not a bad thing in my house.
 
The question remains, though...

Can you use a pils malt to brew a nice pale ale? I can get (and almost did) a sack of contintal pils pretty cheaply. I've enjoyed brewing some German and Belgian beers where the Pils is pretty important to the style, but why couldn't I also use it as base malt when making something light and hop focused, like an APA?
 
From what I gather you can. Pilsner malt can be a base malt for most American gold beer. From my experience it imparts a nice golden hew and infuses hops flavors nicely. Bring out Malt flavors using Caramels/Crystals, Munich, Vienna, Wheat etc...

- WW
 
I used pilsner as a base to make a bitter once. I had enough left over after a few hefeweizens, I wanted to brew and I was out of MO and 2-row. I used some victory and crystal to get back some malty flavour. It was actually pretty good, though if I had MO or 2-row on hand I'd still use that.
 
And my indecision continues! I was secretly hoping someone would tell me I shouldn't bother with pilsner malt, and make my decision easy for me, but I guess it's more useful than I thought.

In any case, I think I've ruled out a second sack of MO since as you guys say, it's a waste of money in beers where you won't taste it, and I do love making stouts. I'm still torn between pils and 2-row, I was starting to lean toward 2-row but then bird reminded me about german beers, so I'd have more use for pilsner malt than JUST belgians.

I suppose the easy solution would be to buy a sack of each, but I'm not sure I can spend that much right now. Now if only I can talk my deadbeat friends into buying me some grain in exchange for all the beer I've given them :D
 
the_bird said:
The question remains, though...

Can you use a pils malt to brew a nice pale ale? I can get (and almost did) a sack of contintal pils pretty cheaply. I've enjoyed brewing some German and Belgian beers where the Pils is pretty important to the style, but why couldn't I also use it as base malt when making something light and hop focused, like an APA?

Yes you can. You just need to up the speciality grain to compensate.
I use it becuase it is the standard base malt in the UK and I like it.
 
Funkenjaeger said:
...Now if only I can talk my deadbeat friends into buying me some grain in exchange for all the beer I've given them
That's easy: don't let them have any more beer until they do. :D I had to do that for a couple friends and they were happy to help out.
 
Funkenjaeger said:
And my indecision continues! I was secretly hoping someone would tell me I shouldn't bother with pilsner malt, and make my decision easy for me, but I guess it's more useful than I thought.

In any case, I think I've ruled out a second sack of MO since as you guys say, it's a waste of money in beers where you won't taste it, and I do love making stouts. I'm still torn between pils and 2-row, I was starting to lean toward 2-row but then bird reminded me about german beers, so I'd have more use for pilsner malt than JUST belgians.

I suppose the easy solution would be to buy a sack of each, but I'm not sure I can spend that much right now. Now if only I can talk my deadbeat friends into buying me some grain in exchange for all the beer I've given them :D

I use MO in everything. Is it really that much more expensive than American 2-row?

At Midwest, which has a great selection of bulk grain, I see this:

55 lbs Maris Otter: $45 (82 cents per pound)

50 lbs Briess 2-row: $40 (80 cents per pound)

50 lbs Rahr 2-row: $30 (60 cents per pound)

Now, I don't particularly care for Rahr, but that would be the only way to save an appreciable amount of $$ by going 2-row. To me, it's worth having the MO around because with most beers, you do taste it.

As for the pilsner, I don't keep any around. When I need to brew a really light beer like a Pilsner or the Tripels that I brewed on Friday, I order what I need. If I were you, I'd get a sack of MO and a sack of Munich or Vienna. MO can be used for almost anything, and Munich is great as a base grain and as an adjunct.

I guess it really depends on how many super-light beers you'll be brewing...because if it's not super-light, Maris Otter works just as well as, if not better than, Pils.
 
Evan! said:
55 lbs Maris Otter: $45 (82 cents per pound)

50 lbs Briess 2-row: $40 (80 cents per pound)
That's a pretty good MO deal. My LHBS is $40 for the Briess, and $60 for the MO. Still cheaper than getting it shipped from anywhere, though.
 
Funkenjaeger said:
And my indecision continues! I was secretly hoping someone would tell me I shouldn't bother with pilsner malt, and make my decision easy for me, but I guess it's more useful than I thought.

In any case, I think I've ruled out a second sack of MO since as you guys say, it's a waste of money in beers where you won't taste it, and I do love making stouts. I'm still torn between pils and 2-row, I was starting to lean toward 2-row but then bird reminded me about german beers, so I'd have more use for pilsner malt than JUST belgians.

I suppose the easy solution would be to buy a sack of each, but I'm not sure I can spend that much right now. Now if only I can talk my deadbeat friends into buying me some grain in exchange for all the beer I've given them :D

I just ordered two sacks of Pilsner as part of a bulk order here in St. Louis.

My beers are predominantly Belgian Wits, Belgian Blondes, Hybrid Blondes and Bitters. I’ll also keep a steady supply of my Nierra Sevada Pale Ale on hand. I did use the 2-row, but wanted to switch it up a bit. The Pils contains slightly less protein and is more prone to clearing...offering a crisper flavor with less “grain” flavor.

I’ve had great luck with it.
 
Se we have some MO users, some Pilsner users, and some Rarh 2Row users. I think we need to have a vote off with base malt choices. Can anyone put that together?

I say we vote on most common base malt used. Maybe choose from following list:

American 2 Row
American 6 Row
American Pilsner
American Munich
Belgian 2 Row
Belgian Pilsner
Belgian Munich
Marris Otter 2 Row
English Munich
German Pilsner
German Munich

Anyone????

- WW
 
Wait.....

Is there any major disadvantage to using Rahr 2-row?

I ask because I've mostly used Cargill 2-row, because that's what I had given to me.... but I was literally about to purchase a 55# sack of Rahr tonight.

Should I quit being a cheapie and buy the Briess/other instead?
 
bradsul said:
What about Canadian 2-Row? That's what I use! :D


Sorry - typical american. Forget that we have you guys up there.

You know it's like our attic. Important stuff is up there, just we forget about it all the time.;)

- WW
 
I've used Rahr before and really like it. I go back & forth b/w Cargill and Rahr and think the two are practically identical.

I'm not gonna be of much help, Funkenjaeger. I have sacks of all three - domestic 2-row, MO and Belgian pils!:D FermentEd and I have been buying from Mid-Country Malt, who has a local warehouse. They have really good prices, so I can afford to do so.

Bradsul, what Canadian 2-row do you use? MCM offers Canada Malting and I've considered trying it out in the past.
 
Rhoobarb said:
...Bradsul, what Canadian 2-row do you use? MCM offers Canadian Malting and I've considered trying it out in the past.
I really like the stuff from Canada Malt but there is a local malter about 15 minutes north of me that is good too. I can just never remember their name. :D They also carry Weyermann Pilsner so I guess I should try and remember sometime.
 
Evan! said:
If I were you, I'd get a sack of MO and a sack of Munich or Vienna. MO can be used for almost anything, and Munich is great as a base grain and as an adjunct.
It wasn't that long ago that I heard someone say they use munich as a base malt, and I was shocked, I've only ever used it as a specialty grain, and even then only in small amounts. I've gotten used to the idea to some degree, but still not to the point that I'm ready to start using it as a base just yet... Maybe if I stumble across some recipe using munich as a base that gets rave reviews, I'll give it a shot someday.
 
Funkenjaeger said:
It wasn't that long ago that I heard someone say they use munich as a base malt, and I was shocked, I've only ever used it as a specialty grain, and even then only in small amounts. I've gotten used to the idea to some degree, but still not to the point that I'm ready to start using it as a base just yet... Maybe if I stumble across some recipe using munich as a base that gets rave reviews, I'll give it a shot someday.
I use munich as the base in my rye ale. I go 60/40 munich/rye and it's very malty. Tasty though. :D
 
Rhoobarb said:
...I'm not gonna be of much help, Funkenjaeger. I have sacks of all three - domestic 2-row, MO and Belgian pils!...
That's really the answer.

Keep sufficient supplies of everything you like on hand if you want to keep true to styles.

easier said than done... ;)
 
Slight hijack, quick question.

I brew mostly pale-amber ales at the moment, American and English. I'm doing my first lager at the moment and will probably be doing a few more soon but I'd still be doing 3-4:1 ales to lagers, would I be better off with UK pale or German pilsner malt?
 
I use specific malts for specific beers but that is a personal choice. I believe MO has a toasty character that adds a great depth to pale ale, brown ale, stout, barley wine and the likes. Pilsner malt has a different maltiness and really sets off a pilsner, or fest beer. Munch and vienna are really good secondary bases for certain beers, hell, I even use 6-row from time to time for american style pils. The domestic 2-row you can get for $25 is really a fine grain. I recently got a bag of Simpson Golden Promise. I hear it is really great for scottish styles and milds. I don't know how many people will taste the difference, especially if you cut other corners, like yeast, hop varieties and mash temps. But why not try a variety and see what suits your brewing?
 
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