Results from juice, yeast and sugar experiments

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has anyone tried any lager yeasts that they like?

I like Fermentis S23 and Wy2001 a lot. They are good for a semi-dry to semi-sweet cider (between 1.002 and 1.010), leaving a more complex taste than ale yeast at same gravity.

But - being lager yeasts, they are tough to crash. The only way I have been able to stop them in keg sized batches is with repeated crashing, which is a PIA. Gallons are easier to crash because they cool faster, but then you only have a gallon. Also 2001 is pretty stinky when it ferments.

I've also used WLP810, Wy2112, Young's lager, Ritchie's Real Lager, Breferm Lager and Mauribrew lager. These were all OK, but not as good as Wy2001 and S23 IMHO.

I havent used lager yeasts in a while because they are a PIA to crash. If you have a conical fermenter with a glycol jacket, then you could probably get all the yeast to drop with multiple cooling cycles, but otherwise it takes a lot of racking. They would be a good choice for bottle pasteurization, because you can crash them to clear the cider and they will almost always stay viable enough to carb up the bottles after the crash. Now that I have more fridge space, I might do another S23 batch and just keep it cold and on tap.
 
Thanks. This batch is for the holidays, so if its not clear by Thanksgiving, its into the cornie no matter what.

After thinking about it I have an avenue for experimentation.... I have a 5 G carboy and a 3/4 full 1 G carboy of cider both treated with Super Kleer and cold conditioning. (I started w/ 6 gallons). I'll experiment with the small batch, and if I screw it up, no biggie.

Following up on this post, I decided to keg the 5 G and bottle the smaller amount. It never really cleared. The 5G batch was drier and more tart than I expected, but cold and carbed, its pretty good. The bottled stuff is quite dry.. maybe it will mellow out over the next month and a half.

Started another 5G batch with cider from the same source... treated with campden and pectic enzyme and using S-04. I'll have a basis for comparison.
 
The 5G batch was drier and more tart than I expected, but cold and carbed, its pretty good. The bottled stuff is quite dry

Hmm, interesting that the gallon with the superkleer would end up drier than the rest. I wonder if the SK is contributing to that somehow. The batch I did with SK was also noticeably drier than the others, although that aspect didnt really stand out since there was so much oxidation on the batches where I used other clarifiers.

I've now crashed 4 of the 8 batches that I pressed last month. The ale yeast batches are decently clear, the wheat yeast batches are still fairly cloudy. There doesnt seem to be a huge difference between the batches that I pitched yeast into right away, vs the ones that I let clear for 5 days prior to pitching, although I wont know for sure until I've crashed them all in another week or so. It wouldnt surprise me if there is not much difference, as this batch of juice did not clear much in 5 days.

However I have one gallon that I let clear for 10 days - I just kept it in the fridge until it finally cleared, which ended up taking 10 days. It fermented out fine, no off flavors from sitting 10 days. It came out beautifully clear after the crash and tasted great when I bottled it. Too bad I only got 3 liters of this batch. Going by just this one gallon, I'd say that letting the juice settle out before the pitch can definitely improve clarity as long as you are able to wait for the clearing to complete. The only downside is that it adds to the fermentation cycle time. If I hadnt let 4 of these carboys sit in the fridge for 5 days, I'd have them all crashed by now and would be going back for more juice. As it is, I'll have to wait another week. For the next pressing, I plan on chilling a few carboys again before pitching, to see if they clear, and will probably let them go a little longer if they havent cleared in 5 days.
 
interesting that the gallon with the superkleer would end up drier than the rest

I've definitely noticed that more cloudy pours have a somewhat sweeter taste and certainly a thicker mouth feel that clear samples. (same batch, same keg)
 
I've definitely noticed that more cloudy pours have a somewhat sweeter taste and certainly a thicker mouth feel that clear samples. (same batch, same keg)

So many of the old timers are correct in saying that if the cider isn't cloudy it isn't any good ;)

All my batches eventually clear out on their own without fining ingredients. However I do notice differences in the level at which the cloudy appearance maintains itself and how much time it takes to clear with certain apple blends. I should have taken better notes on that phenomenon but I didn't. I always assumed this was based on the variance in pectin levels per year, per variety.
 
Hmm, interesting that the gallon with the superkleer would end up drier than the rest. I wonder if the SK is contributing to that somehow. The batch I did with SK was also noticeably drier than the others, although that aspect didnt really stand out since there was so much oxidation on the batches where I used other clarifiers.

Both the 5G and the Gallon got SuperKleer. I cold crashed all of the cider in the primary and then racked off the top 5 G into a carboy and continued to cold condition at 33 F. The last gallon or so of the primary went into a jug at cellar temperature. I'm not surprised it was dry as it must have fermented out. Both got treated with SuperKleer after racking. I was surprised that the refrigerated 5 gallons got considerably less sweet during cold conditioning.... I left it in the fridge for ~ 4 weeks hoping it would clear, but used a controller to keep it at 33 F.
 
I just finished pouring in the yeast and taking measurements of my second batch of cider. I did my first one before reading this thread and was surprised that I "cold crashed" my first batch before knowing that it had a term. Using champagne yeast and store-bought juice in a Corny keg fermenter that I used for beer, adding table sugar and Xylitol to sweeten it.

This time is as follows:

10 gal cider (whole foods, not the house brand, UV pasteurized, not preservatives)
5 lbs of honey
1 tsp pectic enzyme

This I then split into two Corny-fermenters and pitched Wy3068 and Wy1010 in them respectively. The manufacture date on the yeast was 11/15/11, so only one week out of the lab and into a batch of cider.

OG for both was 1.058, I'm looking at a fantastic 6% or so cider ready for the Superbowl.

Kevin, I know you have lots of experience with the 3068, at about what gravity should I cold crash it?

Edit: Fermenters are stored at 68 degrees Fahrenheit
 
the 3068, at about what gravity should I cold crash it?

Thats really up to you. I find that it does well in the 1.012 to 1.030 range depending on the juice and your taste. I'd recommend starting the ferments with blow off tubes for at least the first few days. The WF juice might not kick up as much krausen as mine do, but here is a pic of my wy3068 - on the far left.

Cider39.jpg


I pitched these less than 24 hours ago and I have already had to change the blow off water once on the 3068, 3056 and 3333. The wy1010 on the far right has been mild mannered so far, but it can kick up a storm also. It was a little slower than the others to start. I've found that the krausen on wheat yeasts will pretty much expand to fill whatever head space I give them, so I rely on a tall water column to help push the foam down. Still as you can see it is not enough. This is fresh unpasteurized juice. YMMV


The juice is a mix of Stayman, Winesap, Albemarle Pippen and Pink Lady, and tastes great. Og was 1.060. I added honey to wy3333 and wy1010 batches, didnt add any sugar to the others

Cider40.jpg


The ale yeasts are typically much better behaved. I'm doing 2 batches with Brupaks and one each with Notty and Gervins English Yeast, which I strongly suspect are the same yeast. I got one of the new vaccum sealed Notty packs and I must say that it was a much faster start than previous Notty batches - it was bubbling the airlock in less then 5 hours. OTOH, it was 4 bucks! Gervins is a third the price, which was the old Notty price! It started a good hour faster than the Notty. Time will tell how they both taste.

Cider41.jpg


Here's all of them together, about an hour after the yeast pitch. All the batches from the previous pressing have been crashed and are clearing. They all seem to be clearing fairly well, with the US05 batches being the most clear so far. Pre-clearing the juice before pitching the yeast seemed to improve the clarity of the wheat yeast batches, but not so much for the ale yeast. Still kinda early days though. I expect to let most of these set and continue clearing for another 2-3 weeks. I still have 3 kegs left from the first pressing. They are all on tap.
 
Started another 5G batch with cider from the same source... treated with campden and pectic enzyme and using S-04. I'll have a basis for comparison.

This batch is fermenting very slowly. Checked it yesterday and it was down to 1.0025 from 1.0030 a few days earlier. Thinking the S-04 may have dropped out, so I swirled the carboy to rouse the yeast. Maybe the campden slowed down the ferment? Still tastes good and I have airlock activity, so I'll just wait it out.
 
Last week I sampled 16 bottles from three years ago, with various amounts of k-meta added before and after fermentation. Eight were stopped with cold crashing, eight were stopped with sorbate. I was hoping to get a idea of how small a dose of k-meta I can use and still keep them from going to vinegar over time. Tim from Potters Craft Cider joined me for the tasting.

I made three liters of each batch and tested them all at 2 months and 6 months. Preliminary reports are here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/index12.html#post1398538and here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/index7.html#post1046569

Cider37.jpg


After sitting in the basement for three years, the best batch by far was the one with no k-meta before the yeast pitch, and cold crashed, with 1/3 the recommended dose of k-meta added after the crash. It had picked up a tiny bit of carb, but still tasted sweeter than the 1.002 when I crashed it. No vinegar after 3 years of storage. Very drinkable pub cider

Of the cold crashed batches, quite a few had gone to vinegar. Adding k-meta before the ferment doesnt seem to help much for long term storage, unless a full dose is used. However adding at least 1/3 of k-meta after crashing is very effective. There was one bottle with k-meta added after the crash that went to vinegar, but I'm pretty sure that was due to a bad seal on the swing top.

The sorbated batches still had a very pronounced sorbate taste, which ranged from annoying to horrible. The worst were the batches with less than a full dose of k-meta, followed by full dose of sorbate. These had a terrible geranium smell that was obvious as soon as the bottle was opened. I was wondering if this would go away after time - not after 3 years. With a full dose of k-meta, the sorbate taste is not as bad, but still very noticeable. Its a vanilla taste, thats similar to oaking (although not quite natural tasting) so I can see how winemakers could get away with it for some styles. I could even see it working in a cider if you added some other spices and pass it off as a holiday cider blend.

On the plus side, none of the sorbated batches had any vinegar smell or taste, so it does work well as a preservative. That confirms what some vinegar makers have told me: that if a wine has been sorbated, it is no good for vinegar, the mother wont take. I'd rather have a hint of vinegar in my cider than a hint of sorbate but to each his/her own.
 
This is A LOT of really useful information here, but a lot of stuff to go through. If you had to summarize it up to popularity, what is the best yeast and apple combination you have come across so far in your cider experiments, and what are the optimum SG ratings for it?
 
cvillekevin - how much sorbate have you been adding? I usually add about 1/4tsp per gallon for draft ciders, but I always use 1 campden tablet per gallon too. In that dosage with the added backsweetening I can never taste the sorbate. It must be due to the additional sugar.
 
If you had to summarize it up to popularity, what is the best yeast and apple combination you have come across so far in your cider experiments, and what are the optimum SG ratings for it?

Depends what you mean by 'popularity'. For the past couple years, my personal favorite yeast has been a pub style cider using Brupaks Ale, crashed between 1.008 and 1.012. US05, S04 and Notty are close if you cant find Brupaks. I also like Wy3056 at ~1.018 for a juicier taste or S04 at ~1.004 for a dry style. As far as apples go, as long as you have a good base apple, a good flavor/aroma apple and a good tart apple, you can get good results. My favorite mix so far has been Stayman, Pink Lady and Albemarle Pippen. These arent available til later in the season. Cortland, Gala, Jonathon makes a good early season mix.

In terms of which kegs float the fastest at parties: Anything with raspberries, cysers made with Wy1010, S04 or Wy3333 in the 1.010 to 1.014 range, 3068 and WLP042 at 1.020+

how much sorbate have you been adding? I usually add about 1/4tsp per gallon for draft ciders, but I always use 1 campden tablet per gallon too.

For the batches where I tried sorbate, I added the recommended dosage on the LD carlson container, which was 1/2 tsp per gallon. I tried using 1/4 tsp, but it would not stop the ferment. k-meta followed by 1/2 tsp will stop an S04 ferment at up to 1.008

In that dosage with the added backsweetening I can never taste the sorbate.

Cant taste it, or dont mind it? Even at 1/4 tsp/gal, I'd be really surprised if you couldnt pick it out. I used 1/4 tsp/gal to stop some wild yeast batches (which were 1.002 - 1.004 and didnt take as much to stop as the S04 batches) and could still easily pick out the taste. When I did the last group tasting with these a couple years ago, almost everyone could pick out the sorbate taste, although a lot of people didnt mind it and some people liked it. Next time you stabilize a batch, pour out a few oz before you add the k-meta and sorbate and then compare. You may like the sorbate taste better, but I'm quite sure you will be able to tell the difference.
 
For the batches where I tried sorbate, I added the recommended dosage on the LD carlson container, which was 1/2 tsp per gallon. I tried using 1/4 tsp, but it would not stop the ferment. k-meta followed by 1/2 tsp will stop an S04 ferment at up to 1.008
On my sorbate pack it calls for 1/4per tsp, but I am not trying to stop an active fermentation so that makes sense that you are using more. Usually I am applying this amount (1/4tsp) to a cold crashed or totally dormant cider that has been aging a minimum of 3-6 months.

Cant taste it, or dont mind it? Even at 1/4 tsp/gal, I'd be really surprised if you couldnt pick it out. I used 1/4 tsp/gal to stop some wild yeast batches (which were 1.002 - 1.004 and didnt take as much to stop as the S04 batches) and could still easily pick out the taste. When I did the last group tasting with these a couple years ago, almost everyone could pick out the sorbate taste, although a lot of people didnt mind it and some people liked it. Next time you stabilize a batch, pour out a few oz before you add the k-meta and sorbate and then compare. You may like the sorbate taste better, but I'm quite sure you will be able to tell the difference.

I will have to do a sample, because my current process is, rack onto sorbate, add sweetener if needed, then rack back into a keg on sulphite. So I guess you have a point. How would I know with out comparing the sweetened cider before sorbating.

Now I have tried them independent of each other (sorbated cider, and dry cider); I haven't tried sorbated cider that was cold crashed with residual sugar left it in vs. cold crashed with residual sugar left in it.

If I remember, it was a long while ago, I think the sorbate slightly sweetened the dry cider, but not enough to make my wife happy? Will have to try that next time around for kicks.

All that said... probably safe to say I like the taste of sorbate.
 
On my sorbate pack it calls for 1/4per tsp

Interesting, on the LD carlson vial, it says 1/2 tsp/gal for stabilzation. What brand are you using?

If I remember, it was a long while ago, I think the sorbate slightly sweetened the dry cider

That was my perception as well. It didnt change the SG, but gave it a vanilla taste that increased the perceived sweetness.
 
Interesting, on the LD carlson vial, it says 1/2 tsp/gal for stabilzation. What brand are you using?

It is crosby baker.

So my memory serves! I will have to compare sorbated v.s non sorbated backsweetened cider side by side to see if I can taste a difference. I already have a back up keg of cider premade, so it will be a little while before I get to try.
 
The sorbated batches still had a very pronounced sorbate taste, which ranged from annoying to horrible. The worst were the batches with less than a full dose of k-meta, followed by full dose of sorbate. These had a terrible geranium smell that was obvious as soon as the bottle was opened. I was wondering if this would go away after time - not after 3 years. With a full dose of k-meta, the sorbate taste is not as bad, but still very noticeable. Its a vanilla taste, thats similar to oaking (although not quite natural tasting) so I can see how winemakers could get away with it for some styles. I could even see it working in a cider if you added some other spices and pass it off as a holiday cider blend.

FYI - the geranium smell is from malolactic bacteria interacting with sorbate. Sorbate is sometimes attacked by malolactic bacteria. When the sorbate is broken down it will smell like Geranium leaves. Looks like you had some wild malolatic bacteria present in your cider (makes sense because your cider is fresh pressed). So it wasn't the sorbates fault, or an off flavor of the sorbate directly. I would assume that sulphiting at a full dose would have knocked out the malo bacteria.

So I guess the lesson should be, if you plan to sorbate, you better give a full dose of kmeta.
 
Question:

Since I don't have the means to cold crash to stop fermentation, I'm going to use Nottingham and just rack to secondary when it's around 1.020. I saw a note in the original posting about needing to add sugar to raise the OG in order to use this method of stopping fermentation.

How much sugar would you use per gallon (or per 5 gallons) in order to facilitate this?
 
Stopping a fermentation with just racking is very difficult to do consistently. You need the right juice (low nutrient) and a slow cool (55-60) ferment, so what nutrients are in the juice are depleted and the only remaining nutrients are in the trub you leave behind on the rack(s). I've had decent success with this in the past, but its not as reliable as cold crashing, so I havent done it in years except for a few batches that stalled out on their own.

I usually bump the sg up to about 1.065 or 1.070 which makes it easier to get the fermentation to stick. How much sugar depends on starting sg, usually 1 to 2 pounds per 5 gallons. Adding more would probably make the ferment a little easier to stick but IMHO tends to wash out a bit of the apple taste.

In a best case scenario, it will probably take at least 2 racks, maybe 3 to get the ferment to stop. After you rack it the first time, it may stop for a week or two, but as the cider clears and more trub falls, there is a good chance that a new ferment will get started. It will be much weaker though and easier to knock out with another rack. YMMV. Dont go by bubbles, because that could be MPF, but if you see bubbles AND the sg drops, rack it again until sg stays stable

I've found that fermentation with WLP041, Wy3068, Wy3056 and Wy3333 are more likely to stop from just racking. I suspect that these yeasts use more nutrient and dont seem to stink much from low nutrient as long as you keep them cool and slow. But no guarantees that will be the same with your juice. I'd recommend that you have a backup plan to pasteurize if the secondary sg doesnt stabilize after 2 or 3 racks. Even if you get great results, dont store in glass until you have at least a season of success under your belt. preferably use a stainless steel keg and draw a pint often enough to make sure pressure is not building. 1.020 is a lot of potential pressure if you dont get all the yeast out. good luck
 
the geranium smell is from malolactic bacteria interacting with sorbate.

thanks for the info, that makes sense.

I would assume that sulphiting at a full dose would have knocked out the malo bacteria.

yep, the batches that got a full dose of sulfite still had a taste from the sorbate, but it was much more tolerable.

So I guess the lesson should be, if you plan to sorbate, you better give a full dose of kmeta.

yep, sorbate without kmeta is really nasty. I've made some funky batches over the years but this stuff was not even pig feed grade. these were the first bottles I've dumped down the drain in years.
 
Just fished reading the entire thread, with all the wheat yeasts I didn't see WB06, by fermentis. Has anyone tried that on cider?

Awesome thread, thanks for a ton of great info on everything cider!
 
I did a few batches of WB-06 several years ago, but didnt have much luck with it. I havent got decent results from any of the dry wheat yeasts, and I've tried all the ones I could find. I'm not sure why the liquid wheat yeasts come out so much better - could be different strains, or maybe something about the drying process
 
CvilleKevin said:
I did a few batches of WB-06 several years ago, but didnt have much luck with it. I havent got decent results from any of the dry wheat yeasts, and I've tried all the ones I could find. I'm not sure why the liquid wheat yeasts come out so much better - could be different strains, or maybe something about the drying process

I've been using a dry Weiss yeast and getting amazing results with a particular juice and process. I found an organic cider that works well with the yeast. I've tried different yeast in side by side fermentation to check in case of fluke. Sampled them head to head last week to be sure. Same results. The yeast just needs a particular juice is all
 
There is sooo much info in here. So what is the favorite couple of cider yeasts? I have some wlp775 that was best by Feb 12th going on the stir plate. It's really going now, hope I like it. Looks like I will need a BO tube. Was going to use Nottingham, but got this for $3. I haven't used either. Used S04 last time, didn't make the best.
 
Should I assume that concentrate from a LHBS bought cider kit will essentially be the same as pasteurized apple juice when mixed as per normal?

I'm thinking I'll do just that and then add a yeast and from the selection in your original post rather than the stock yeast from the kit..

Thanks to this great post I'm very interested in trying Safale S-04 and Nottingham yeasts in a couple of future batches..
 
It's moderately close but usually a bit more bland. Ascorbic acid can overwhelm you a bit with some vendors. Apple variety goes a pretty good ways tho. I personally subscribe to fresher is better but opinions vary.
 
Sort of followed your read:
1.5 gallons of Tree Top juice
12 oz sugar
S04 yeast
6/15 SG=1.062
6/20 SG=1.034
6/24 SG=1.028
6/29 SG=1.010
7/02 SG=1.002
7/07 Cold Crashed in secondary
 
Cold crashing for 3 days now. So far refer is only down to 41*. Is that enough? Bottle on weekend after 1 week of crashing? Taste is dry, thinking bout adding a little fresh juice. Will that give me bombs?
 
Cold crashing for 3 days now. So far refer is only down to 41*. Is that enough?

It would be better to go colder if you can, but 41 should be enough to get S04 to drop. You can judge to some extent by how it looks. The carboy should have gone from light and opaque to darker and fairly clear by now.

Bottle on weekend after 1 week of crashing? Taste is dry, thinking bout adding a little fresh juice. Will that give me bombs?

Yeah, 1.002 is fairly dry. It will get more apple taste back over time. My experience has been that the drier the ciders finish, the longer they need to age to take the edge off the acids that are left over when you ferment off all the sugar. Yes, adding fresh juice will increase the likelihood of bombs, because in addition to more sugar, you will also be adding more nutrients and the possibility of introducing wild yeast. Adding turbinado is safer if you want it sweeter and dont want to wait, or else keep it cold.

Since you used commercial juice, I'd be real careful about bottling these in glass. If you do, I'd recommend drinking one every few days or so and put them all in the fridge or pasteurize the bottles if the carb starts to build. Folks on the HBT forum have had mixed results with cold crashing. I believe the key to doing this right is (1) be really careful on the racking not to pick up any trub. Dont try to get every last drop out of the carboy when you rack it after the crash. Leave a pint or so behind which you can drink while cleaning up. (2) Use low nutrient juice so that nutrient levels are nearly/completely depleted by the time of the crash. That way, if a few yeast cells do make it though the final rack, they will be unlikely to multiply. If you live in apple country, the easiest way to get low nutrient juice is to look for an organic orchard. If you're not in apple country, its a bit of a crap shoot. The big commercial orchards tend to use nitrogen fertilizers to pump up their juice yields, which makes for more nutrients in the juice.
 
It would be better to go colder if you can, but 41 should be enough to get S04 to drop. You can judge to some extent by how it looks. The carboy should have gone from light and opaque to darker and fairly clear by now.

Not sure why it won't drop lower. It's one of those apt size refers. I have another that can freeze beer in bottles so maybe I should switch the two putting my beer ready to drink in the one that won't go below 41. BTW it's in a white 2 gallon bucket so I can't see any color. It was VERY clear when I transfered to "secondary" bucket.

Yeah, 1.002 is fairly dry. It will get more apple taste back over time. My experience has been that the drier the ciders finish, the longer they need to age to take the edge off the acids that are left over when you ferment off all the sugar. Yes, adding fresh juice will increase the likelihood of bombs, because in addition to more sugar, you will also be adding more nutrients and the possibility of introducing wild yeast. Adding turbinado is safer if you want it sweeter and dont want to wait, or else keep it cold.

Since you used commercial juice, I'd be real careful about bottling these in glass. If you do, I'd recommend drinking one every few days or so and put them all in the fridge or pasteurize the bottles if the carb starts to build. I have a good supply of plastic Gatoraide bottles and or the 1/2 gal plastic the juice came in. What do you think of those?Folks on the HBT forum have had mixed results with cold crashing. I believe the key to doing this right is (1) be really careful on the racking not to pick up any trub. Dont try to get every last drop out of the carboy when you rack it after the crash. The trub was very solid and I was able to get almost all the liquid out w/out it even slidding as I tipped the bucket. Never saw trub that solid. Leave a pint or so behind which you can drink while cleaning up. (2) Use low nutrient juice so that nutrient levels are nearly/completely depleted by the time of the crash. That way, if a few yeast cells do make it though the final rack, they will be unlikely to multiply. If you live in apple country, the easiest way to get low nutrient juice is to look for an organic orchard. If you're not in apple country, its a bit of a crap shoot. The big commercial orchards tend to use nitrogen fertilizers to pump up their juice yields, which makes for more nutrients in the juice. No apples grown here in Hawai`i so I'm stuck w/buying juice.

As we say in the islands Mahalo Nui Loa thanks very much for all you have done in this cider arena. I'm thinking about starting my next batch this Saturday.
Steve
 
Plastic Gatorade bottles work fine. I used them for a whole season before I started bottling. I'd recommend them for at least the first couple batches, until you are sure that your juice and process results in stable results. Plus, you can experiment with adding back juice or sugar and not have to worry about re-ferments bursting bottles.
 
Plastic Gatorade bottles work fine. I used them for a whole season before I started bottling. I'd recommend them for at least the first couple batches, until you are sure that your juice and process results in stable results. Plus, you can experiment with adding back juice or sugar and not have to worry about re-ferments bursting bottles.

Thanks Kevin, not to start cleaning them bottles. Only have about 1.75 gallons so a little math and I'll know how many to clean. :ban:
 
I know you heard this over and over but thanks for sharing all this info. Since I've been experimenting with all sorts of ale yeasts, I figured I'd post this here...
Picked up a vial of wlp575 Belgian Yeast Blend at the LHBS (that was expired and discounted, haha) and wow, I was quite pleased! Although had a lil too much must in the primary and had to put on a blow-off tube because the airlock got all funked up;) I enjoy being able to drink my cider green and after 1-1/2 weeks in primary it got down to 1.25 and I racked half and cold crashed and let the other half go to 1.008 (which was dryer than I normally go). My first racking at 1.025 tasted great after cold crashing for a couple days. And amazingly was very clear! Actually looks like apple juice in a glass. In my experience, this yeast is at the top of my list...along with Notty and S-04 of course! Thought I'd add that I let it ferment in my cool basement and I used a mix of store-bought "grown in the USA juice"...half Treetop and half Musselmans. Added only two cans organic concentrate to boost SG close to 1.06. The whole reason for this post is to say that this batch became very drinkable quickly and if anyone is looking to try something different, this yeast worked real nice with my storebought selections. This one was my "made in the USA batch". Paid a lil more, but was quite worth it. After racking out the primary, I just dumped 4 more gallons of some cheaper juice right in the primary and this stuff is gonna finish very shortly! Added some cherry juice to it this time around. Still trying to determine if liquid yeast is worth the extra money. This was a check in the yes column!
 
Just out of pure curiosity, what would happen if you used 2 yeasts in the same batch? would one over crowd the other or could they put 2 different spins on how a cider tastes in the end. I'm sure there has to be someone who has tried this.
 
Just out of pure curiosity, what would happen if you used 2 yeasts in the same batch? would one over crowd the other or could they put 2 different spins on how a cider tastes in the end. I'm sure there has to be someone who has tried this.

I've done this once or twice with beer. I've had some success by using two strains that prefer different temperatures. I add both strains simultaneously (from two small, independent starters) at the higher temperature, then let the beer cool gradually over the first week (say, start at 75 and cool to 62).

You could theoretically add two yeasts that ferment at the same temp and have them coexist, but I'm not sure I can think of two strains (at least if we're staying within saccharomyces cerevisiae) that would offer any flavor-related benefit from blending.

Of course, if we're NOT strictly using saccharomyces, things get a lot more interesting... Has anyone tried a brett cider?
 
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