Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

What batch size have people tried with this method? My current batch is:
36 x 660mL capped
28 x 450mL flip-top
12 x 1L flip-top

That is 76 Bottles! I wonder how many pots I can borrow and get going on my stove?? Yikes.

David

Hi, I just wanted to give my experiences I had tonight with my first try at pasteurizing. I started by following the guideline of 160-175 degree bath after soaking in 110-120 prior. The bottles weren't in the hot water bath for more than 3 minutes when I lost 2 of them. the second set of bottles I put in the hot water bath I didn't let get over 160 degrees. I only lost 1 bottle on that batch. I then decided to do a quick search online for what temperature kills yeast best and I found that 138-140 was agreed upon most. so for the last few sets of bottles I did not let the temperature get over 150 and I made sure that it went over 140. Other than my 3 casualties everything else went well.

sounds like they were over carbbed, did you check the carbonation level first??

carbonation was fine, I'm thinking that my alcohol content was close to 9 percent is the reason why as the boiling point would be lower then and I also could have left about a quarter inch to half inch more of headspace in the bottles

No they were over carbbed or your bottles were flawed. 10% alcohol will only lower the boiling point by about 5º which will not cause the problems you had. Especially since they broke in the preheating bath which is no where near boiling. Most likely you had to much co2

completelyuncorked said:

Hi, I just wanted to give my experiences I had tonight with my first try at pasteurizing. I started by following the guideline of 160-175 degree bath after soaking in 110-120 prior. The bottles weren't in the hot water bath for more than 3 minutes when I lost 2 of them. the second set of bottles I put in the hot water bath I didn't let get over 160 degrees. I only lost 1 bottle on that batch. I then decided to do a quick search online for what temperature kills yeast best and I found that 138-140 was agreed upon most. so for the last few sets of bottles I did not let the temperature get over 150 and I made sure that it went over 140. Other than my 3 casualties everything else went well.

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Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you had some fun .... a few comments:

- The real test whether your method works is whether you actually killed the yeast ... so I would celebrate your method only after another month or so and I keep my fingers crossed that it will work!

- While you are right that the yeast dies at around 140, the whole trick in these recipes is to make sure that the complete bottle and its content gets warmer than 140. That is not the same than saying that the water in the pot is over 140. The often cited Cornell research paper on cider pasteurization is based on two test series:

In series 1) they hot-fill cider and thus measure the actual cider temperature. In these tests they showed that cider temperatures between 140 and 150 were enough to stop fermentation

In series 2) they put bottles of cider into a hot water bath. This series they did at 165F water temperature not at 140-150F. I don't know why they did not try it at lower temperature (so it does not necessarily mean it does not work) but I did find it interesting that they did not even try and assumed that heat transfer from the water into the bottle is not perfect for the time-spans we use (i.e. minutes). The would be my gut feel as well since the amount of heat transferred between water and bottle is proportional to the difference in temperature. Thus, I would expect the bottles to be slower to reach the last few degrees towards equilibrium with the surrounding water and therefore getting to the same temperature than the water.

- My experience has shown that temperature is more critical (in terms of having bottles explode) than most other parameters such as duration or amount of air in the bottle. Especially with my more critical brews (such as my Malzbier) I am very careful to keep the temperature between 160 and 170 and never exceed 170.

- However, even in that range, I have bottles explode if the carbonation is high so I think I agree with Daze that your carb level might have been on the high side. One tip from Daze (verified by me) is to release pressure from the bottle before pasteurization (and or course re-cap) - it will not kill carbonisation but greatly extend the safe range of pasteurization conditions.

BelMamba

How much carbonation is enough carbonation? Am I ready to bottle when I open the bottle and see a couple of streams of bubbles? The flip top opened with a loud pop and there was a cloud of mist coming out. No gushing and when held up to a light only 2 or 3 streams of bubbles.

Update: I found my answer one the first page. The picture of the of the glass of cider explained it all. I tried chilling a bottle and it looked exactly like that

However not all went well. I had 27 Grolsh bottles left. I popped the cap on all of them before bottling. There were no gushers but I lost 3 bottles to the preheat and lower temperature method. I was only heating to 170f and kept the heat on not allowing it to get higher than 170. In fact it sat at 160 most of the time. Glad I was using lids. I suspect that I should not have continued to heat the water.

Moral: ALWAYS have a lid on your pasteurizing cider! Preferably not glass, the lids do get some air.

Update 2: two of my amber 660mL beer bottles that I acquired from my Lhbs came apart like shrapnel. Very very dangerous. Good thing I had heavy lids on both of them. One had wet towel under the lid a the lid was too small for the put. That one did better than the other pot.

I am trying to think of what the variables are. I've come up with a few.
- carbonation level
My Grolsh bottles had all been opened just before I started pasteurizing, so I find it unlikely for them. I only popped one of the 660mL amber bottles which was not over carbed.

- bottle quality
My Grolsh bottles were used but seemed sound. My amber bottles were from a Lhbs which means the glass was thin and lower quality.

- water temperature
I did not measure the preheat bath temp.
I was heating the pot each time I had a bottle go off. One of the pots was a para pot which has the built in colander which means the heat was indirect. The other pot had a track in it but it's coverage was not perfect.
The water temperature in the pots was in the 160a each time a bottle popped.

- bottle temperature after preheating
I did not measure the preheat bath.

- room left in neck above the cider
Perhaps I left too much or too little Rollin for expansion?

What other things could I have done wrong? What, other that carbonation level, could others be doing different too?

D

I made some cider a while back and have had a serious problem.

The damn stuff didnt carb up!

I was using safale S-04, I got the ferment to approx 1.15 SG then racked into a bottling bucket and bottled away. The thing I did notice is that my yeast had all settled and the cider I racked was very clear.

Could the yeast literally have been so fallen out that there wasn't enough to carb my cider? Some of the bottles reached a month in age before I drank them. And essentially no carbonation at all!

I was all prepared to bottle pasteurise, checkin the bottles constantly etc and no dice. Should I stir up a little bit of yeast when I bottle?

reading what you said the carb level should not have been to much, so there must be another cause and I think it may in part be what you said below

dmulligan said:

I was only heating to 170f and kept the heat on not allowing it to get higher than 170. In fact it sat at 160 most of the time.

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That just might be part of problem right there, I turn the heat off once the water reaches 175. The problem with having the heat on is the bottom of the pot will be hotter than the top and inconsistent heat is not good for glass.


I got to thinking about your head space theory and it too may be part of the issue. how much head space did you have between the top of the liquid and the cap?? I recently pasteurized some root beer and i filled it to the base of the neck. once the bottles got up to temp the root beer had risen almost 3/4" up the neck so head space may be a major factor. I know it is critical in canning so it makes sense it would be important in bottling as well. Also makes sense as liquids do not compress with pressure but air will so more head space means you are less likely to break bottles.

Mitch311 said:

I made some cider a while back and have had a serious problem.

The damn stuff didnt carb up!

I was using safale S-04, I got the ferment to approx 1.15 SG then racked into a bottling bucket and bottled away. The thing I did notice is that my yeast had all settled and the cider I racked was very clear.

Could the yeast literally have been so fallen out that there wasn't enough to carb my cider? Some of the bottles reached a month in age before I drank them. And essentially no carbonation at all!

I was all prepared to bottle pasteurise, checkin the bottles constantly etc and no dice. Should I stir up a little bit of yeast when I bottle?

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this may be a silly question but did you prime the bottles??

I added sugar to the bottling bucket. A couple of hundred grams. I can't remember exactly how much. I need to find my brew diary lol. But was a few hundred grams to approx 18L. The stuff was definitely still sweet when I was drinking it!

Daze said:

reading what you said the carb level should not have been to much, so there must be another cause and I think it may in part be what you said below

That just might be part of problem right there, I turn the heat off once the water reaches 175. The problem with having the heat on is the bottom of the pot will be hotter than the top and inconsistent heat is not good for glass.

I got to thinking about your head space theory and it too may be part of the issue. how much head space did you have between the top of the liquid and the cap?? I recently pasteurized some root beer and i filled it to the base of the neck. once the bottles got up to temp the root beer had risen almost 3/4" up the neck so head space may be a major factor. I know it is critical in canning so it makes sense it would be important in bottling as well. Also makes sense as liquids do not compress with pressure but air will so more head space means you are less likely to break bottles.

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My bottles were not in direct contact with the bottom of the pot so I didn't think that heating the water at that point would matter. I guess I was wrong.

So I definitely needed to start with hotter pot water and hotter bottles out of the sink. Then I needed to not heat the water, perhaps I needed to pasteurize a little longer if my water temp dropped too much.

I filled my bottles with a wine filling wand and used it to judge how much to fill each bottle. That meant that I had very little space left. How much room should I have left? The entire neck?

Here is a pic of one of my 660mL bottle bombs.

D

You don't need more heat or to do it for longer. Take a look at how I pasteurize Another way to bottle pasteurize The key to any pasteurizing is to take a temp reading after 10 min. the temp of the bath after 10 min will be about the same as the temp in the bottles as long as you are over 140 you are good to go.

As to head space I filled mine to the base of the neck because I didn't have enough to add more. If you are going to pasteurize I would not go further than 1/2 way up the neck, or less.

Would this be affective in say a lemon shandy type beverage? Mix the beer and lemonade 50/50 condition and bottle carbonate till at a good level. Then pasteurize? Any thoughts? I wanted to do a shandy before and ended up settling with a lemon wheat after being told a shandy couldn't be done in bottles, but it seems it could be done with a similar process as cider.

dryan1986 said:

Would this be affective in say a lemon shandy type beverage? Mix the beer and lemonade 50/50 condition and bottle carbonate till at a good level. Then pasteurize? Any thoughts? I wanted to do a shandy before and ended up settling with a lemon wheat after being told a shandy couldn't be done in bottles, but it seems it could be done with a similar process as cider.

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Or you could backsweeten with a nonfermentable lemonade (sugar free). After fermentation is done, add the nonfermentable lemonade and priming solution to your bottling bucket, rack in the beer, bottle and condition. Much easier than bottle pasteurizing.

Rather than putting the bottles in a pot, would I be able to block off my drain in the sink, put the bottles in there, and pour the water into the sink or is it important that the bottles are enclosed in a covered pot? This is my first cider, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible before reaching this stage.

Can stove top pasteurization be done with wine bottles? And what caps will fit wine bottles?

rocknhardcider said:

Can stove top pasteurization be done with wine bottles? And what caps will fit wine bottles?

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Wine bottles can't be capped. Champagne bottles can because they have the lip at the top.

Wine bottles don't have this and so corking is the only method. If you pasteurize though, you're likely to blow the corks out like I did a few times.

You also shouldn't store effervescent beverages in a wine bottle. Eventually the cork will pop itself out.

Perfect thanks

Hello all im new to brewing and its going to be time for me to bottle up have got some plastic pet bottles could i still use this method??

Many thanks jamie

Jamie118 said:

Hello all im new to brewing and its going to be time for me to bottle up have got some plastic pet bottles could i still use this method??

Many thanks jamie

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Im new to brewing too and have never done this process but id make sure your plastic bottles dont melt at 190 degrees. otherwise you could have a huge problem on your hands......

Can you use swing top style bottles when using this pasteurization process? like grolsch bottles or bottles purchased at ikea or other stores. or will the pressure be too great and the tops will pop?

Earlier in the thread, someone shared about how they used Grolsch style bottles. Sorry I don't remember the details, you'll have to search. Also, about the IKEA bottles, make sure they are for carbonated beverages. Wine bottles (except for sparkling wine bottles) aren't made for carbonated beverages, they'll break.

Thanks. I'll look for the thread on grolsch bottles. And thanks for the heads up about carbonated bottles. Maybe I'll try to get my hands on some martinellis sparkling apple cider bottles.

Pappers_ said:

Earlier in the thread, someone shared about how they used Grolsch style bottles. Sorry I don't remember the details, you'll have to search. Also, about the IKEA bottles, make sure they are for carbonated beverages. Wine bottles (except for sparkling wine bottles) aren't made for carbonated beverages, they'll break.

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I don't have any questions since I just read 20+ pages of this thread, but I just wanted to say thank you! I can't believe you're still here, replying, and answering questions.

I'm going to be making my first batch of cider soon, I plan on taking pictures and posting results. Thanks again, tons of useful info here

How would I do this with champagne bottles? Can the neck stick out of the water with no lid? Maybe for longer time?

I've never tried pasteurizing with champagne bottles, so can't give you direct experience but I think if you experimented with time you should be able to do it. Champagne bottles are quite heavy duty.

Any suggestions?

Try it with one bottle at a time first, and I think your idea of lengthening the time is good. Don't over carb or put another way, err on the side of under carbing. As you open the bottles to enjoy your cider, keep an eye out for signs that you didn't kill the yeast, like excessive carbonation or caps/corks getting blown.

This thread has worked a treat for me, cheers Pappers!
One thing though, I didn't have a pot in the house that covered the entire bottle length, so was forced to use one that only covered around 2/3's. My thermometer only went to 60C, so just pasteurised for 15 minutes at a constant temp of 60C. That should be fine right???

Had one bottle bomb this week so I realized it was time to do this. Water is heating up now. 3 cases to go!

2 exploded in the water when I was taking them out. Not sure how I didn't get hit but on to the next round of 8.

I really apologize if this was already covered, I've read the whole thread looking for this answer and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss it! I also tried a general search and no good, so this method would work for a fruit wheat beer right? I don't see why it wouldn't but it seems like it would be more popular if it did. Instead of using unfermentable sugars add blueberries or whichever fruit flavor you want for priming and pasteurizing before its all fermented?

qewret said:

I really apologize if this was already covered, I've read the whole thread looking for this answer and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss it! I also tried a general search and no good, so this method would work for a fruit wheat beer right? I don't see why it wouldn't but it seems like it would be more popular if it did. Instead of using unfermentable sugars add blueberries or whichever fruit flavor you want for priming and pasteurizing before its all fermented?

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I've never done it, but yes, I think you are correct. One difference, though, would be that the beer will already have some sweetness to it and adding more sweetness through fruit might give you a very sweet beer. But I've never done it so can't say - sounds like an experiment.

I have been working on a cider, I have it cold crashed currently but when I opened a bottle it foamed up to the top of the bottle, went down an the carbonation seems great, would this still be safe to pasteurize?

If it is gushing - foaming up in the bottle when you open it, not just when you pour it in a glass - I wouldn't pasteurize it. But its hard to tell without actually seeing it. If you want to do a test and try it, use a lid on your pot and use caution.

This is your perfect example of overcarbed cider. Do not pasteurize as is. Like the sticky and threads say, your best bet is to uncap the bottles one by one then immediately recap them. Then you should be ok to.pasteurize.

Hello,

Great post and kudos on your bottles & presentation!

My husband and I are newer to cider and are on our second batch. First batch was a great tasting still cider; we want to carbonate this batch. We prefer a drier (not bone dry) and moderately carbonated cider. A couple questions on pasteurization and carbonation...

We have read that you boil and cool 3/4C corn sugar with 2C h2o and add to bottling bucket. Is this a good measure for the priming sugar?

Would you recommend pasteurizing if the desired cider is a drier one?

We use a variety of bottles including the large brown (1L) flip-top and growlers. Can you pasteurize with a screw-top growler and -- can you pasteurize various size bottles in the same pot?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

lindsaylu said:

Hello,

Great post and kudos on your bottles & presentation!

My husband and I are newer to cider and are on our second batch. First batch was a great tasting still cider; we want to carbonate this batch. We prefer a drier (not bone dry) and moderately carbonated cider. A couple questions on pasteurization and carbonation...

We have read that you boil and cool 3/4C corn sugar with 2C h2o and add to bottling bucket. Is this a good measure for the priming sugar?

Would you recommend pasteurizing if the desired cider is a drier one?

We use a variety of bottles including the large brown (1L) flip-top and growlers. Can you pasteurize with a screw-top growler and -- can you pasteurize various size bottles in the same pot?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

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Welcome!

I use a little less regular table sugar (white cane or beet), about 2/3 cups dissolved in 2 cups of boiling water, per 5 gallon batch. You can scale up or down from there. I've only pasteurized using the 12 ounce bottles, so can't speak from experience.

Have you and your husband taken a look at www.makinghardcider.com? Its a great method for making bottle conditioned, semi-sweet, sparkling cider, too.