Wee Heavy Strong Scotch Ale

permo said:

It sure sounds awesome.....but here is a word of advice. You should pitch at least one more smack pack into there if you can. You underpitched quite a bit.

With nottingham, it didn't take long at all.

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That's what I'm thinking. I will pick up another smack pack, will it still be ok with no o2

Lycan said:

That's what I'm thinking. I will pick up another smack pack, will it still be ok with no o2

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I think oxygenating again would be a good idea too.....

Talked to my LBS and was told not to reoxyginate the need since there is alcohol in there now, and O2 will really give problems. They said to just dump the smack pack right in.

Lycan said:

Talked to my LBS and was told not to reoxyginate the need since there is alcohol in there now, and O2 will really give problems. They said to just dump the smack pack right in.

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Your LBS guy is wrong. The new yeast will require oxygen to propogate (reproduce). Your extra yeast helped for sure, but oxygenating would have helped even more.

Well since its a smack pack, its like a starter and has already started its multiplying. I haven't needed to add the other smack pack yet. It's still bubbling every 3 seconds.

So I checked the gravity of this bad boy, its at 9.3%! Oh boy, its party time soon. Going to be racking to secondary tomorrow afternoon.

Just transferred this to it's new home in the secondary for the next two months! OG was 1.072 and ended up at 1.012! Tasted very good! Going to be a long two months... Need to make something else soon... my kolsch is running low in the keg!

IMNOTL8 said:

Just transferred this to it's new home in the secondary for the next two months! OG was 1.072 and ended up at 1.012! Tasted very good! Going to be a long two months... Need to make something else soon... my kolsch is running low in the keg!

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Oh, you will enjoy this one. It is delicious!

IMNOTL8 said:

Just transferred this to it's new home in the secondary for the next two months! OG was 1.072 and ended up at 1.012! Tasted very good! Going to be a long two months... Need to make something else soon... my kolsch is running low in the keg!

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This really is a super simple and fantastic recipe. I am going to make this one again soon, and age it on a little oak. Now that I think, this would be awesome on draught with nitro!

I just brewed this last night. It was my first decoction and I was scared at first.... but it was really quite easy! Does anyone see any problems with the process that I used?

I pulled 1.5 gallons of the mash (at 149) and put it into a kettle. Pushed it up to 157, held it for 15, pushed it boiling, held for 15. I then put the decocted mash back in and hit the temp of 157 perfectly! Finished it out at 157 for 45 minutes. Added a gallon at 170 and let it sit for ten minutes. Vorlaufed, and drained into the kettle. Added 4 gallons at 170 to the mash and let sit for ten minutes. Vorlaufed and put into the kettle. The notty is going crazy now... I've never had a blow off quite as intense as this one.

Does anyone see any problems with my methods? I've only done 5 all grains and I am unsure if I am doing everything "correct".

Since I have never done such a thing.... and since I do not have Beersmith.... and since I would really LOVE to brew my very first Scottish Ale this weekend, would some kindly explain to me, in detail, how one uses decoction for this brew, i.e. how much, how long, everything.?.?

DrBrewDC said:

Since I have never done such a thing.... and since I do not have Beersmith.... and since I would really LOVE to brew my very first Scottish Ale this weekend, would some kindly explain to me, in detail, how one uses decoction for this brew, i.e. how much, how long, everything.?.?

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For every pound of grain, you take a quart of grist. Leave as much liquid in the mash tun. Boil grist for 15 min. Then return the grist back into the mash. Only put enough grist back in to reach your rest temp.

At what point do you remove the grist from the mash tun and bring it to boil?

Better stated, if there is little water, how is it to boil? ....and... if it is to boil for 15 minutes, where in the 45 at 149 does one remove it from the mash tun?

DrBrewDC said:

At what point do you remove the grist from the mash tun and bring it to boil?

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I took mine out at 45 mins into the mash. As for the grist, yes it is.just the grains. Try to drain as much liquid out of it before you boil the grist. That is how it is done. You can also look up brew tv decoction. That will give you a good idea how to do it. It's about 28 min long

so then the next obvious question is.... is this "28 min long" process not included in the "45 minutes at 149" nor the "45 minutes at 157"? then if this is true, would the mash then actually sit at 149 for 73 minutes (28 + 45)?

DrBrewDC said:

so then the next obvious question is.... is this "28 min long" process not included in the "45 minutes at 149" nor the "45 minutes at 157"? then if this is true, would the mash then actually sit at 149 for 73 minutes (28 + 45)?

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Lol... No,no. The 28 mins is the length of the video nothing to do with the mash. It's a 28ish min video on YouTube.

Ha. Okay.

However, there is obviously some time involved in bringing the grist to boil, so is this started at the 45 minute mark and then once added back, continuing the mash for another 45 minutes?

Also, I have now seen the video and although it make sense, it would seem to me that adding ~ 4 gallons of boiling grist back to the mash tun would exceed the target temperature of 157. I suspect one would not add all of it? If so, then would it be added back once cooled prior to sparging? (Thank you for your patience with me. Although I have been AG brewing for many years, I am always eager to learn more!)


Edit: Okay, so I watched it again and now see that I missed where Dawson stated that once the decoction cools, it is added back to the main mash.

So then, is a mash out unnecessary?

DrBrewDC said:

So then, is a mash out unnecessary?

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Yes. You still need to raise the temp to 165ish

Lycan said:

Yes. You still need to raise the temp to 165ish

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Thank you! I believe I am ready.

DrBrewDC said:

Thank you! I believe I am ready.

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Sweet. Good luck. It seems like it might be hard but it is quite easy. Just try and stay on your temps and your golden

So here's how it went:

My good buddy from Australia was in town so a few more home brews were consumed a bit earlier in the process than usual which caused me to forget to consider the "dead space" under my false bottom when figuring strike water amount/temp. That goof was quickly resolved and we hit 149* on the button for 45 min. After taking approx. 17 qts of grist for decoction, I had to double check this thread because it really seemed like a lot (there was hardly any grain left in the mash tun). Heated that to boil, held for 15 and added enough back to bump to our 157* for another 45 min. Added the rest back, mashed out at 165. Fly sparged with 170 getting 6+ gallons at a spot-on 1.074! Since I did not have the time to make a starter, I pitched two packages of Nottingham at 79*. I placed it in my fermentation chamber in a 90* garage at 7pm, so it took some time to come to temperature. The next morning it was at 68* and friggin bubblin like mad! The following morning the temperature probe in the thermowell was registering at a beautiful 62*... and has been there since!

Questions:

1. Will pitching two packages of yeast have any negative effects on the flavor? on fermentation? on anything?
2. Will my warmer temps for the first two days have any negative effects?
3. When the grist is heated to boil for 15 minutes, doesn't this effectively end the conversion from starch to sugar? What is the ultimate purpose of this? Caramelization? and therefore, flavor? But Oh My Goodness did it smell amazing! We couldn't help but have a couple spoonfuls of the chewy sweet cereal!!

1. that is great
2. pitching warm (90 degrees) and leaving warm for two days may give you some off flavors. Notty over 70 is nasty. The first days are crucial and when most esthers are formed. I hope its ok though.
3. decoction adds carmelization and an intense maltiness that cannot be matched - good job!


I hope your ferment is OK with those temps cause you nailed everything else!

For clarification.... the garage was 90*, however, the ferm chamber was already down to 70 and so was the wort within hours, hanging at about 68 for another 24 hours until it made it down to the suggested 62. NEVER was the wort 90*. By the time I could see activity, it was at 68*.

The reason for stating the garage temp was to give reason why my chamber struggled to drop in temperature.

In that case, u are going to have a stellar brew

Just got this brew into a carboy and into my fermentation chamber. This was my first time doing a decoction mash and although I hit (or slightly exceeded) the OG permo specifies, I am a bit nervous and confused about decoction technique, as I've not been doing all grain, let alone decoction, for very long.

I mashed on with 5.75 gallons of water and hit 149 and held for 45 minutes. Then I pulled 1 qt of more-or-less drained grist for each lb of grain and put into the brew kettle. I did not hold this portion at 157 for any amount of time, but rather brought the whole thing slowly but steadily to a boil. Was this a screw-up? Honestly I forgot to rest the decoction, but after I realized it, I figured conversion and other enzyme magic would have already happened during the 45 min each rest. (?)

Another odd thing I noticed is that, pulling that amount out, It appeared that almost all of the grain had gone into the brew kettle. After boiling for 15 minutes or so, I added enough back to the mash tun to bring the temp to the specified 157, and left the rest into the brew kettle to cool to that temp (or until I got impatient and frustrated and added a bit of cool water to bring it down and then put it into the MT). Problem was that it took so little of the decoction to bring the original mash to target temp that it was almost through the second rest before I got the bulk of the decoction down to temp to rest with the remainder.

So net is that my rests were totally weird and disjointed and I don't really know what happened from a mash perspective . Wort and trub were much messier than I have ever had, but the aromas and taste were very nice and very interesting.

Any feedback? Sorry for the long post... But it's nothing compared to how long this brew day was

Wow, that was a long one. I just use beersmith and it calculates the amount of mash to remove and boil. So to make a long store short, I take a mix of grain and water from the mash, bring it to a boil and let it boil for 5-10 minutes and then add it back to the mash to bring up the temp. Thats all a decoction is to me.

If you read just 4 posts up, you will see that I basically had the same questions. It does seem unusual... having never done a decoction... however, I believe you are spot on, as well.

I don't believe you have to hold the decoction at 157* on your way up to boiling.... but I may be wrong.

Either way, I just transferred from the primary into the secondary yesterday after 5 weeks and although still a tad "green", it tasted AMAZING!

Great recipe, permo!

permo said:

Wow, that was a long one. I just use beersmith and it calculates the amount of mash to remove and boil. So to make a long store short, I take a mix of grain and water from the mash, bring it to a boil and let it boil for 5-10 minutes and then add it back to the mash to bring up the temp. Thats all a decoction is to me.

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I'm guessing that the decoction was probably just excessively big using my method. Would use beer smith but stuck on iPad for now. I did notice a huge cold break with this beer compared to others, and wonder if that's a result of decocting or the large grain bill. Interested to see how this one turns out! Thanks for the response and recipe.

and just an FYI...

my F.G. was 1.014 @ 55*.... from an O.G. of 1.074 @ 79*...

looking forward to my 8.3% A.B.V.!!!

Just brewed up this pig this afternoon...skipped the decoction and went for a single infusion mash at 152. Ended up with a OG of 1.085....WAY stronger than planned (and that OG was triple checked over the last minute of the boil with a refrac). Only had one package of Notty though so in a fit of beer-induced panic I pitched an extra pack of US-05. We'll see how she comes out.

hopdropper said:

Just brewed up this pig this afternoon...skipped the decoction and went for a single infusion mash at 152. Ended up with a OG of 1.085....WAY stronger than planned (and that OG was triple checked over the last minute of the boil with a refrac). Only had one package of Notty though so in a fit of beer-induced panic I pitched an extra pack of US-05. We'll see how she comes out.

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Its going to be an excellent beer.....excellent for sure. I bet you end up with a FG of 1.016 or so................it will be a malt explosion of goodness.

Ahhhh....good to hear....it's fermenting like absolute mad right now...temp hovering around 64. I'm real curious how this will taste. Real excited for the finished product...and not real sure how I'm going to have the patience to let this thing mellow a bit. I'll let you know the FG in a month or so...I think this may end up being my booziest brew-to-date!

This looks like my next batch!!

I cannot reccomend this one more. Keep the malt bill and decoction schedule the same, but mess with the hops if you wish. The grain bill and mash schedule seem to be magical on this one.

Yeah, ill do just that! Is the special roast the same or similar to special b?

DagoBrewer said:

Yeah, ill do just that! Is the special roast the same or similar to special b?

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No sir. Special Roast is a roasted, nuttier malt. Like a darker victory malt in my opinion. Tastes like grape nuts cereal.

Special B is a very dark begian crystal malt. Sweet, extreme burnt caramel/raisin flavor.


Both great ingredients, but oh so different.

permo said:

No sir. Special Roast is a roasted, nuttier malt. Like a darker victory malt in my opinion. Tastes like grape nuts cereal.

Special B is a very dark begian crystal malt. Sweet, extreme burnt caramel/raisin flavor.

Both great ingredients, but oh so different.

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Ok thanks! I havnt tried a beer like this yet. I mostly stick to my west coast ipa and pales but my bud brewed an oaked scotch ale and it was stooopid good!! It instantly made me want to brew 1000000 gallons of this style so hear i am! Thanks for this thread, im gonna brew this in a couple weeks, ill let you know how it goes!!