1st All-grain: Fly or Batch?

I'm hoping to do my first all-grain in a few weeks and I wanted a few opinions.

Should I make a sparge arm and try to fly sparge, or should I try and not complicate my first time out by just batch sparging? I realize its a matter of personal taste but getting input from everyone is a nice way to help influence my own choice.

You can go either way, but batch sparging requires less equipment, if you want to get that first AG under your belt. You can always upgrade to fly sparging later.

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

then listen to his podcast on basic brewing radio to great info

batch-do a search on this site for details. Much easier, and although you will obtain greater efficiency with fly, most of the guys around here get 70-80% with batch.

I'd also recommend batch sparging. There is no additional equipment required, and it's so simple it's just silly.

Well, I've always batch sparged and find that uncomplicated and easy.

I guess the choice is what seems simpler and more convenient to you.

I'm a batch sparger. It cannot get any easier, then save your money for a mill and your set.

+1 for batch sparging

I don't know what extra equipment everyone is talking about. I suppose a false-bottom is suggested. If you have a braid, I am sure fly sparging would work, but then I would likely go with batch.

However, if you have a FB or don't mind making/buying one, I think fly sparging is much easier. It just makes more sense to me and is extremely easy. pour water in and drain wort out. Really, that's it. I don't understand why people think batch sparging is easier. It is quicker but, the extra 10 minutes or whatever just doesn't make that big a difference to me.

I did my first 6 AG without a sparge arm and I do not see it making an difference at all in my current batches. Go fly sparging

Boerderij Kabouter said:

I don't know what extra equipment everyone is talking about. I suppose a false-bottom is suggested. If you have a braid, I am sure fly sparging would work, but then I would likely go with batch.

However, if you have a FB or don't mind making/buying one, I think fly sparging is much easier. It just makes more sense to me and is extremely easy. pour water in and drain wort out. Really, that's it. I don't understand why people think batch sparging is easier. It is quicker but, the extra 10 minutes or whatever just doesn't make that big a difference to me.

I did my first 6 AG without a sparge arm and I do not see it making an difference at all in my current batches. Go fly sparging

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Well, the extra equipment that I would need to fly sparge would be a sparge arm, and an HLT. I don't have either. I don't know how you'd pour the water in and drain it out the way you suggest without that. You'd have to trickle it in by hand, and then set the run off to the same level. I'm confused as to how you're doing yours- could you explain better to me? Thanks!

blacklab said:

batch-do a search on this site for details. Much easier, and although you will obtain greater efficiency with fly, most of the guys around here get 70-80% with batch.

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Ahh...EA - flysparger ...Had to stick that little barb in there didn't ya.

One can achieve equal efficiency with batch sparging, of that there is no doubt...

10 gallon container, batch
5 gallon, fly (you can do a sort-of-batch but only with really small grain bills)

I agree, keep it simple to startout and batch sparge.

When I brewed my first AG batch I already had the sparge arm, HLT, etc and still batch sparged to get the basics down.

I just want everyone to know that I had no idea that an argument would ensue about which method is best.

With that said . . . watching the carnage unfold is pretty funny . . .

YooperBrew said:

Well, the extra equipment that I would need to fly sparge would be a sparge arm, and an HLT. I don't have either. I don't know how you'd pour the water in and drain it out the way you suggest without that. You'd have to trickle it in by hand, and then set the run off to the same level. I'm confused as to how you're doing yours- could you explain better to me? Thanks!

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I don't have a HLT (Hot Liquor Tank) or a sparge arm & I fly sparge.

Substitute your kettle for HLT. While my mash is going, I heat up sparge water in my kettle. To sparge, use a 1qt measuring cup to slowly pour hot water over the back of your stir spoon & onto the grain bed. Set the spigot on your MLT to run off @ 1 gallon every 12 minutes. I add a quart of water every 3 minutes or so. I drain the MLT into a brew bucket - that way I can measure the volume of the runoff.

BlendieOfIndie said:

I don't have a HLT (Hot Liquor Tank) or a sparge arm & I fly sparge.

Substitute your kettle for HLT. While my mash is going, I heat up sparge water in my kettle. To sparge, use a 1qt measuring cup to slowly pour hot water over the back of your stir spoon & onto the grain bed. Set the spigot on your MLT to run off @ 1 gallon every 12 minutes. I add a quart of water every 3 minutes or so. I drain the MLT into a brew bucket - that way I can measure the volume of the runoff.

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Bingo... sort of a corrupted fly/batch sparge without any extra equipment, and John Palmer himself actually suggests this as a method of sparging.

I have a HLT, but I find that this method is easier, and if you have a braid like me, I have found that I get better effeciency this way (although I have yet to achieve a great efficiency). I mash out and drain the grain bed, but not all the way and I start pouring in about a quart per minute gently with about a quarter inch of water on top of the grain bed. With a HLT I can drain into my kettle and get my boil going a little faster. This is the only way I have done it that I have never gotten stuck.

+1 for batch sparging

Well, the extra equipment that I would need to fly sparge would be a sparge arm, and an HLT. I don't have either. I don't know how you'd pour the water in and drain it out the way you suggest without that. You'd have to trickle it in by hand, and then set the run off to the same level. I'm confused as to how you're doing yours- could you explain better to me? Thanks!

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I use a gravity system currently (I have bought my pump though ) and in the past I just trickle water onto the grain bed with a hose. All a sparge arm does is distribute the water on top of the grain but since you should have a 1-2 inch water layer over your grains it really doesn't make a difference. I have a ball valve on my MLT and set that to an appropriate flow rate. Then while sparging I just adjust my sparge water flow rate to maintain between 1-2 inches of water above the grain.

I really only fly sparge because it seems so much simpler to me. I am sure batch sparging is easy as all of you say, but fly just makes more sense to me.

If you do not have a HLT you can heat your sparge water in your BK and collect runnings in a third vessel.

All that said, I am sure batch sparging works better form some people and I know it works just as well.

Cheers to the great debate

Boerderij Kabouter said:

I use a gravity system currently (I have bought my pump though ) and in the past I just trickle water onto the grain bed with a hose. All a sparge arm does is distribute the water on top of the grain but since you should have a 1-2 inch water layer over your grains it really doesn't make a difference. I have a ball valve on my MLT and set that to an appropriate flow rate. Then while sparging I just adjust my sparge water flow rate to maintain between 1-2 inches of water above the grain.

I really only fly sparge because it seems so much simpler to me. I am sure batch sparging is easy as all of you say, but fly just makes more sense to me.

If you do not have a HLT you can heat your sparge water in your BK and collect runnings in a third vessel.

All that said, I am sure batch sparging works better form some people and I know it works just as well.

Cheers to the great debate

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Ah, that clears it up for me, thanks!

I batch sparge because it's easier for me- I dump in the water all at once, stir it up, and clean a little equipment while I start the first runnings to boil. By then, it's time to drain. So, it works well in my case.

BlendieOfIndie said:

I don't have a HLT (Hot Liquor Tank) or a sparge arm & I fly sparge.

I add a quart of water every 3 minutes or so. I drain the MLT into a brew bucket - that way I can measure the volume of the runoff.

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Ok, so the description of that process doesn't exactly solidify the "it's not any more trouble argument".

You're using the same equipment as in batch sparging (the cheap way anyway) and you're sitting there babysitting it throughout the process.

This isn't to support which method is BETTER by any means, but I still contend that to make fly sparging more practical, all else considered, you really SHOULD have an HLT and some method of even delivery over the bed and even way of collecting under the bed (false bottom or large manifold). If you don't want to go there, just batch and call it a day.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

I use a gravity system currently (I have bought my pump though ) and in the past I just trickle water onto the grain bed with a hose. All a sparge arm does is distribute the water on top of the grain but since you should have a 1-2 inch water layer over your grains it really doesn't make a difference. I have a ball valve on my MLT and set that to an appropriate flow rate. Then while sparging I just adjust my sparge water flow rate to maintain between 1-2 inches of water above the grain.

I really only fly sparge because it seems so much simpler to me. I am sure batch sparging is easy as all of you say, but fly just makes more sense to me.

If you do not have a HLT you can heat your sparge water in your BK and collect runnings in a third vessel.

All that said, I am sure batch sparging works better form some people and I know it works just as well.

Cheers to the great debate

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What kind of separation media do you use, braid, manifold, false bottom? What kind of efficiency are you getting?

I agree with bobby. It isn't worth fly sparging if you don't have a FB in you mash tun and a HLT.

I still think sparge arms are a luxury more than a necessity.

Let's just remember that the OP didn't ask which method was better. It was, for a first AG attempt, which one would you recommend using? Without knowing exactly what equipment is available, it's easier to assume that batch would be appropriate. If the OP has a false bottom in the MLT and a separate HLT, I think it's a toss up and you might as well take your pick.

I have an MLT with a braid, but I'm also considering modifying the MLT further (for no other reason than to play around with my equipment). However, I do not have a separate HLT, but the next time I come across a used keg you can bet I'll have one. But by then, my batch sparging method might be so consistent that I see no need to change that portion of my brewing.

I love fly sparing and will never go back to batch sparging. To me its no big deal to do and it's fun and give you something to tinker with.

Hey, for a first timer, no one mentioned no sparge? If you have a 10 gallon mash tun and want to keep it simple, that's got to be the way to go. After your mash, calc how much water you need for a single runoff and add that. I did that for the first few AG batches I did. I (and my back) finally go tired of lifting a 10 gallon MT full to the brim of grain and water up high enough to gravity feed into the brewpot.

OP inhifistereo, I would go with batch sparging given your setup. If you want to try fly sparging later when you have the setup, go for it.

zoebisch01 said:

10 gallon container, batch
5 gallon, fly (you can do a sort-of-batch but only with really small grain bills)

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Are you implying you can't batch sparge in a 5gal MLT?
I have a 5gal cooler for my MLT with a braid. I don't have an HLT, instead heat my sparge water on my stove and boil outside with a turkey fryer.
I batch sparge because it is simple and the least time consuming for my setup.
I drain the MLT,
add half my sparge water and mix,
because my turkey fryer is a little small for my boil I bring the first runnings to a boil and wait for hot break before draining the MLT again.
add the other half of my sparge water and mix again.
add the second drainings to my boil kettle and bring to boil again. This time the hot break is a little less and easier to control.
Finally drain the MLT the last time and add it to the kettle.
Now my kettle is nearly full and I have to be careful as I bring it to a boil again. Because the wort was already near boiling it doesn't take long and because I have already had a hot break on the first 2 sparges the final break is much less and I usually have no problem preventing a boil over.
I use my fermentation bucket to drain my MLT into so I can easily carry it to the kettle.

Sounds somewhat complicated but no step requires careful timing or adjustment so there is little chance of error or variation from batch to batch. Because of my setup I have to run in and out of the house a few times but that could be solved with more equipment including a stand of sorts.

If I had a stand and HLT then fly sparging would probably be easier as there are fewer steps. However a manual fly sparging does not sound easy to me, it would have to be a sparge arm. Even then I see many more places for an error to occur with fly sparging. Channeling, sparging too fast, allowing the mash to run dry or overflow. Not something I wanted to deal with when starting out.

Craig