Malty Beer Fan looking to Hop it Up

Fellow home brewers. I have been home brewing for about a year. I typically prefer beers that favor malt rather than hops. So, I have been brewing lots of Scottish Ale, English Pale, etc. Most hops just at the initial 60 minutes of the boil. I recently started experimenting with hops but continue to get a bitter rather than sour taste from hops. I am looking for suggestions both for recipes and hop additions to expand my palate.

Thanks in advance.

Poke around the recipe database a bit. There are a bunch of tried and true recipes there. It really depends on what hoppy beers you like. The main purpose of hops is to give the beer a bitterness. Hops will not make a beer sour. If that is what you are looking for, then yeast is the ingredient you should look to tailor.

Correct, I understand that hops does not create a traditional sour taste. Perhaps what I meant was a smoother or gentler hop to introduce my palate. For example, I have been reading about how the chemistry of certain hops can make them smoother. Say Glacier is smoother than Centennial.

Just looking for some pairings that will provide a smoother ride, so to speak. Thanks for the suggestion. I am already a pretty avid recipe trawler.

Are you familiar with IBU ratings on recipes?

Yes, I am familiar with IBU ratings on recipes. Currently, I prefer recipes that tend towards a lower IBU of between 20 and 30. I would like to try and explore hoppyier beers with a higher IBU rating. Looking for suggestions to experiment with where the IBU rating could come in at 60+ but still provides a balanced or smooth beer.

Perhaps I am asking the question incorrectly?

Hops additions don't always equate to bitterness. It depends on the hops variety themselves and how you use them in your wort that translates into the bitter flavor (or lack thereof). I'm a big fan of hops flavors and they run the gamut from citrus to grapefruit rind to floral, black currant, woody or even herbal. A particular hop added at bittering (60 mins) can taste completely different when used as a flavoring and aroma hop. I would suggest that you sample some commercial examples from craft brew houses before deciding on what you like and in what direction to bend your home brewing. Here's what i'd suggest for a hops newbie:

Pliny/ZombieDust/Heady Topper/Jai Alai/Sculpin/Daisy Cutter: Very well balanced hops profiles in a standard IPA format. These beers are remarkable for their lack of flaws as well as their ability to be consistently flavorful, citrusy and mild when fresh. Great gateway beers for the burgeoning hops freak.

Stillwater: Stillwater brewing does a lot of farmhouse and saison style beers. They're actually a one person operation that contract brews with bigger brew houses such as Westbrook out of Charleston, SC. I've been very impressed with Stillwater's offerings, especially their table beer and beers like Autumnal and Existent. These beers are pure expressions of what delicious complex floral and spice notes can be subtly teased out of noble hops.

Dogfish Head: Hit or miss brewery for me, but their classics will always ring true and drink well. Their 60 Minute, 90 minute and 120 minute IPA's are pretty darn solid. DFH 120 is a malt bomb that they have to throw a huge amount of IBU's at (120 IBU's) to stand up to the malt sweetness and high alcohol. Combined with their Worldwide Stout, DFH 120 is a good example of just how many IBU's you can throw at an alcoholic malt bomb to try and strike a balance on the palette. Clocking in at 15%-20% ABV, don't drive after drinking one.

Flying Fish: Flying fish out of NJ is doing some good stuff. I like their "Exit 4" American tripel. It's malty and alcoholic but they balance it out with some good citrus hops and they taste like a blended Tripel/IPA. Very nice.

Sierra Nevada: Their fresh hops series are awesome. Southern Hemisphere is amazing if you can get it fresh. They use fresh/wet hops from New Zeland and pile it on thick at the aroma/flavoring/whirlpooling stage of brewing for full on aroma and flavor with just a little bit of bitterness. Torpedo is their go-to IPA, but their pinnacle of the hops art is Hoptimum. Super hoppy.

Now... when you think you're ready... here are the real hop bombs i'd recommend. Most are seasonal so just keep an eye open for them next spring:

Hopslam: The only beer I really like by Bell's brewing. This is a high IBU DIPA that just rapes your tongue over with hops. Every hop head is crazy for this beer so it goes fast. Make friends with your local beer merchants and they might call you when they get their one case in stock, and if you're lucky, you can buy a sixer from them.

SUCKS! By Lagunitas. The "apology" beer from Lagunitas after they failed to meet a production date in 2011 for Brown Shugga' due to a brew house upgrade. Lagunitas Sucks! was probably my favorite DIPA for 2012 (Better than Hopslam). Fresh, hoppy, malty and just damn good. Brown Shugga' and Hop Stoopid are also worth checking out.

Palette Wrecker: Palette Wrecker by Green Flash brewing in San Diego is freaking over the top. It's pure grapefruit rind in the bottle and has more hops juice drop for drop than anything else i've tried out there. If you wind up a complete hop head, you will crave one every once in a while, and taste nothing but numbness afterwards.

^ I think that advice would be good if the question was "I want to learn what good beers hopheads like."

My advice to this guy would be to screw around with late addition of noble hops like hallertau. It should accentuate the malt backbone without being overwhelmingly hoppy. Since I really doubt they are looking for a beer like hopslam or anything.

I'd look for a nice Imperial Red Ale recipe. You get some nice malt flavors as well as good hoppiness. Best of both worlds.

well hops are supposed to be bitter rather than sour so your palette it correct.

if you want to cross the streams a bit try a big amber ale. shoot for 1.070. aim for dryness a bit more than you usually would so like a 150 mash in. hop with a blend of big PACNW hops. I'm going to recommend copying Maine Brewing Company's Zoe just cause i love it.

do an even split of 2row pale and maris otter. add C40 and C80, Victory and a pinch of chocolate. enough to get some flavor but not so much to take over. figure 15-20% Victory, 10% split between the crystals and probably like .5lb of chocolate.

about 50 IBU should suffice. Centennial to bitter to about 50% of IBU's. simcoe and centennial at 15 for another 25% and simcoe centennial and columbus at 5 for the rest. in the last addition dumb down the columbus compared to the other. something like 2-2.5 to 1 else to columbus. Maine brewing claims 7.2% from 1.064 OG. that's pretty good. I wouldn't expect that from typical homebrewer efficiencies.

in my head it tastes the same. in my mouth i'm not sure yet. may need more chocolate and victory and less 2 row.

deadboy182 said:

Yes, I am familiar with IBU ratings on recipes. Currently, I prefer recipes that tend towards a lower IBU of between 20 and 30. I would like to try and explore hoppyier beers with a higher IBU rating. Looking for suggestions to experiment with where the IBU rating could come in at 60+ but still provides a balanced or smooth beer.

Perhaps I am asking the question incorrectly?

Click to expand...

Hop flavor does not = IBU.

Look for recipes with the most hops with the least IBU if you want hop flavor. In particular, hop additions with 20 minutes or less in boil have hop flavor.

Note that higher OG/FG need higher IBU to balance sweetness.



I can't comment too much on extract recipes. But a few all grain recipes I like for smooth hoppiness with heavy malt:
Jamils Evil Twin
Janet's Brown Ale
DFH Indian brown ale
Triple Hopped Black Ale

All,

Thank you for your responses...particularly since I was not really clear on what I was looking for. Your comments have been very helpful. And have given me much to ponder.

Aiptasia - I appreciate the education. I will definitely try some of the brews you suggest. Afterall, who doesn't love an excuse to drink beer. I could even argue this is market research

Steelbadgers89 - Noble hops are my favorite along side Fuggles and Willamette right now. So I appreciate the suggestion.

Ronpopeil - How did you know I was struggling with an amber reciepe. You had my mouth watering. I will definitely take you suggested receipe into consideration.

Grathan - Thanks for the suggested recipes. I will look into them further. Also, I appreciate that hop flavor and bitterness are different things and your note about the influence of OG/FG on the effect of hop additions.

Bottom line = need to experiment and drink more

I'll try and post the results of my experimentation here.

OK, I have been inspired by Ronpopeil. I will put the following recipe into my rotation. I would appreciate thoughts on the yeast...an FG of 1.018 does not seem dry enough for the recommendation. I can let it sit a little longer and tend to overshoot my FG at 7 days in primary. I will keep everyone posted:

Cross Stream Amber
Style: American Amber Ale OG: 1.068
Type: All Grain FG: 1.018
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 6.55 %
Calories: 221.24 IBU's: 50.96
Efficiency: 75.00 % Boil Size: 8.23 Gals
Color: 17.0 SRM Batch Size: 6.50 Gals
Preboil OG: 1.060 Boil Time: 60 minutes
________________________________________

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
6.50 lbs 35.99 % Crisp Maris Otter 60 mins 1.038
6.50 lbs 35.99 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
3.00 lbs 16.61 % Victory Malt 60 mins 1.034
1.75 lbs 9.69 % Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L 60 mins 1.034
4.00 ozs 1.38 % Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L 60 mins 1.034
1.00 ozs 0.35 % Briess Chocolate 60 mins 1.035

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.00 ozs 24.41 Centennial 60 mins 10.00
0.35 ozs 7.72 Simcoe 25 mins 13.00
0.35 ozs 5.94 Centennial 25 mins 10.00
1.00 ozs 6.33 Simcoe 5 mins 13.00
1.00 ozs 4.87 Centennial 5 mins 10.00
0.25 ozs 1.70 Columbus (Tomahawk) 5 mins 14.00

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1 act pkgs American Ale II Wyeast Labs 1272

Additions
(none)

Mash Profile
Profile Name: All Grain Profile 1

Grain Temp: 70.00 °F Mash Tun Vol Loss: 0.75 Gals
Grain Absorption: 0.13 Gals/lb Tun Temp Loss: 4.50 °F
Cooling Shrinkage: 4.00 % Kettle Trub Loss: 0.75 Gals
Hourly Boiloff: 9.00 %

Mash Steps:
Infusion 75 [email protected]°F

Add 18.00 qts water @ 170.6°F
Mash Out 10 [email protected]°F

Add 8.84 qts water @ 212.0°F
Fly Sparge
Sparge 18.48 qts water @ 170.00 °F

Water Profile
(none)

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 7 days @ 64.0°F
Secondary 14 days @ 64.0°F
Bottle/Keg 14 days @ 72.0°F

Wyeast said:

With many of the best qualities that brewers look for when brewing American styles of beer, this strain’s performance is consistent and it makes great beer. This versatile strain is a very good choice for a “House” strain. Expect a soft, clean profile with hints of nut, and a slightly tart finish. Ferment at warmer temperatures to accentuate hop character with an increased fruitiness. Or, ferment cool for a clean, light citrus character. It attenuates well and is reliably flocculent, producing bright beer without filtration.

Click to expand...

i've never used it or any wyeast products but it sounds good. temperature control wouldn't be a hassle because it sounds like it would go well either direction.

Finally brewed the cross stream Amber as listed above. Did not hit my efficiency numbers. Came in at about 68% and had modeled 75%. So the OG was a lot lower than hoped 1.064 instead of projected 1.071. So, should be a lighter (in terms of malt) beer with a higher perceived bitterness from the hops. I really enjoyed he smell of the hops as I was adding them...except the Columbus which had a sort of darkness that was not completely unpleasant but not great either. I'll post some pics and tasting notes when it's all done.

It's too late now, but I would have suggested something like Fat Tire, as a beginning entry into amber ales. American ambers can be pretty hoppy, but not bitter, and they have a lot of crystal/caramel malt to balance the hops. You may really like them.

I"m not wild about the recipe you just did- 16% victory malt is a lot, and while I love it, I typically use about .5 pound or even less in a 5 gallon batch. It's toasty, but it's also very drying on the finish. 50 IBUs is a lot for that recipe, and with the reduced efficiency it could be even more- so you may find the balance is not quite right (too bitter). But we'll see how it turns out in the end, as it's too late to change it now!

Yooper - Thanks for the comments. Living here in Fort Collins I am very familiar with Fat Tire and like it well enough. Good news is I have several friends who really like hoppy ambers...so if it's not my thing it will find a home

Well I am looking to brew this recipe again with some modifications. I enjoyed it the first time around but it was a little out of balance. I did not hit my OG and the yeast did not attenuate as well as projected either. The end result was interesting but not exactly a balanced or bright beer. A bit muddled...I am going to take Yooper's suggestion and lower the Victory significantly...any other suggestions to modify the beer. The hops schedule was actually pretty good, thought I may use a little restraint on version 2.0. Also, I have recently started making some changes to water chemistry that has helped with the heartburn like bitterness that I associated with higher bitterness beers. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


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