2nd Brew, Pale ale advice!

Here is my second brew citizens
This is far more important that the last, because I haven't paid for a dime, 50-60 people will be tasting it and I'm 'expected' to make this generic pale ale clone excellent.
I welcome all your criticisms

5.5gal Batch
2.3gal boil volume - 60 mins
IBU - 20-22 (my last hit 26, too bitter, probably because I didn't wait for hot break)

3.9-4.2%

6lb light DME

12oz crystal 20L
10oz carapils

1 oz fuggles @60min
2 oz goldings @ 60 min
0.8 fuggles @ 5 min


Thoughts?

Well, you are gutsy I'll give you that much seeing how this is your second batch and all. But the recipe doesn't look too hard, so I'm sure you'll be fine. A couple of things though...

First, you said that your last beer was 'too bitter' at 20-22 IBU, but the problem is 22 IBUs isn't bitter at all. In fact, 30 IBU is the lowest that an American Pale Ale is allowed to be before it is no longer considered a pale ale.

Second, 1 oz of Fuggles @ 60 mins and 2 oz of Goldings @ 60 mins will get you 56 IBUs alone.
Add .8 of Fuggles @ 5 mins and you'll get 60 IBUs in total which, needless to say, is a hoppy enough beer.

Just making sure you know what you're getting into.

And those aren't american pale ale hops. Is this a published clone, or are you trying to clone a beer yourself?

Edit: OP didn't say am. Pale ale...questions still stand though!

This is a loosely based clone with slightly differing ingredients, mainly because of their availability.

And yes, this is an english pale ale! hopefully and you probably didn't read it right, my last IBU count was 25ish, the predicted IBUs according to brewersfriend for this batch was in the early twenties.

What's the AA% of the hops?? You could try using them all late in the boil to get lower IBUs and more flavor from them. What yeast will you be using?? That will also impact the brew and how it comes out. I would suggest downloading the free trial of BeerSmith and enter the recipe in there and see what it gives you. You can then tweak it to get what you want. Its what I do for my batches. Typically figuring out the recipe at least a week or two before brew day.

according to my brew shop

fuggles - 3.5%-6.5%
goldings 4-8%

2011 harvest.

And most likely Windsor, again, I am quite limited on ingredients unfortunately.

seriousbeef said:

according to my brew shop

fuggles - 3.5%-6.5%
goldings 4-8%

2011 harvest.

And most likely Windsor, again, I am quite limited on ingredients unfortunately.

Click to expand...

Need specific AA% on the hops you'll be getting. What they told you is the typical range, which is nigh on useless when formulating a recipe.

Yeah, 3oz for 60 min will be quite bitter. If you move some hops to later in the boil you can reduce the bitterness and get more fuggles/Golding flavor.

Second everything. Use an ounce for bittering and then drop the rest down for flavor or aroma additions with 15-0 minutes remaining in the boil.

If this is your second beer and want it to be excellent for everyone temp control on fermentation and correct amount of yeast is what's going to be key. Definitely temp control, make sure to get it down to 60* below pitching yeast.

You could even give hop bursting a shot. All hops are added 20 minutes from the end of the boil forward. Makes for great hop flavors and aromas. To get higher IBU batches, you use a LOT more hops, but for something with lower IBU targets, you can easily get there.

Without the actual hop AA%, I'll have to use information from what I have on hand...

Change the hop schedule to
1oz EKG at 15 minutes
1oz Fuggles at 10 minutes
1oz EKG at 5 minutes
.8oz Fuggles at 5 minutes

Depending on AA%, that should get you in the low 20's for IBUs.

BTW, with 6# of DME, in a 5.5 gallon batch size (amount in fermenter) you're going to hit about 4.7% ABV. If you really want to get 3.9-4.2% you'll need to reduce the DME amount. 5# will get you 4% ABV, and you'll have about 24 IBUs.

It annoys me as much as it does you about AA.
My local brew-shop is lazy. It seems they buy hops in bulk and repackage and vacuum. The labeling is atrociously dis-informative, the only reason I still purchase from there is i can visit instead of pay shipping costs

IMO, time to stop going to them... Order enough from the good vendors (per order) and the shipping costs (per item) become very reasonable. Use someplace like Hops Direct for your hop needs, if they have what you want. I've bought from them in the past (during the BOGO special a while ago) but otherwise just order my hops from Rebel Brewer. Depending on how far you want to go to get to a GOOD HBS, you could save by just paying for shipping (fuel and time costs).

I'm pretty lucky, right now, in that I'm close to a LHBS (Jasper's in Nashua) that's got a good selection of what I want/need. Good yeast pricing, appears to have a good hop selection, and pretty intelligent people. Far better than when I was going to the place in Marlboro, where only some of the staff (at the time) had any clue. After they moved, it was next to impossible to find out IF they had a specific strain of Wyeast on hand. Plus, it was a good 30-45 minute drive, each way, to get there. Really like how the LHBS I visit now is under 10 minutes away. :rockin:

BTW, if they're that bad at labeling the hops that they repackage (can be a seriously bad thing if they don't do it right) I'd wonder what else they're not labeling right. Are you even sure you're getting the hops you're looking for?? IMO, convenience is NOT worth the uncertainty.

If it is an English Pale Ale, I would suggest a few small changes.

1. Change the Crystal 20 to Crystal 60. Even better, switch to an English Crystal. The Crystal 20 would be great for an APA, but as far as I know in not generally available in the UK.
2. I'd drop the Cara-Pils. Again, I'm not aware of it being used in the UK.
3. I'd use the Goldings for the late hop addition, and use the Fuggles for bittering. The Goldings have a much better flavor and aroma than Fuggles. I'd suggest 2 oz Fuggles at 60 minutes, and 1 oz Goldings at 5 minutes.

I wouldn't add large amounts of late hops in an EPA. This is often done in the US, but is not at all typical in the UK.


Good luck,


-a.

ajf said:

If it is an English Pale Ale, I would suggest a few small changes.

1. Change the Crystal 20 to Crystal 60. Even better, switch to an English Crystal. The Crystal 20 would be great for an APA, but as far as I know in not generally available in the UK.
2. I'd drop the Cara-Pils. Again, I'm not aware of it being used in the UK.
3. I'd use the Goldings for the late hop addition, and use the Fuggles for bittering. The Goldings have a much better flavor and aroma than Fuggles. I'd suggest 2 oz Fuggles at 60 minutes, and 1 oz Goldings at 5 minutes.

I wouldn't add large amounts of late hops in an EPA. This is often done in the US, but is not at all typical in the UK.

Click to expand...

IMO, hop bursting is a very new technique, so just because English breweries are not using it doesn't invalidate it in an English pale ale/ESB. That being said, depending on the actual AA% of the hops, the above listed hop changes would work well. Personally, I really enjoy EKG for flavor, and aroma, additions. I would also try to get some British Crystal Malt II (65L) for this and use 8oz in it. I've only used carapils in one recipe, well over a year ago (almost two now). Didn't see much difference compared with batches where I didn't use it at all, so you could drop it completely.

I still say you'll need to reduce the DME amount if you really want to hit your target ABV.

I also don't see anything 'wrong' with using another ounce of EKG at either 10 minutes or flame out (pick one or the other though). Or move the 5 minute addition (recommended by ajf) to 10 minutes and make a 0 minute (flame-out) addition of another ounce. If you're concerned about IBU's, you could reduce the Fuggles addition to 1.5oz (at 60 minutes). IMO, you REALLY do need to know the AA% of the hops you'll be using. Especially with your previously stated dislike for bitterness.

Something else that has me wondering... Once you get to a boil, you should get hot break. Your statement of "because I didn't wait for hot break" is a bit confusing. If you're boiling for 60 minutes, you'll get hot break. Cool/chill fast (or fast enough) and you'll also get good cold break. Both of which are GOOD things for the brew. Take your time and brew it right. Don't cut corners or you'll be disappointed with what you get in bottles (if it makes it that far).