BCS-460 Beta Test

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Stevorino said:
So am I correct in assuming that you'd only need 1 output in a standard HERMS system -- a scolenoid valve for the HLT?
Click to expand...

No, You would actually need two. You would need a output to control your gas/pilot valve system on the HLT and an output to control the pump for the recirc. through the HERMS for the MLT. You could set the system up a couple of different ways. You could leave the circ. pump on constantly and step temperatures with the HLT or you could set the HLT to one temp, say 160F and use the pump for control of the temperature in the MLT. One is not better than the other in my opinion. Either way you have a completely automated mash. S.:tank:
 
slimer said:
No, you can also add a relay for the pump(s) if you add a float switch to the MLT for the sparge.
Click to expand...

Float switch is an input, but it could be used to control a solenoid for an automatic fly sparge. Good call on the Idea Slimer.
 
slnies said:
No, You would actually need two. You would need a output to control your gas/pilot valve system on the HLT and an output to control the pump for the recirc. through the HERMS for the MLT. You could set the system up a couple of different ways. You could leave the circ. pump on constantly and step temperatures with the HLT or you could set the HLT to one temp, say 160F and use the pump for control of the temperature in the MLT. One is not better than the other in my opinion. Either way you have a completely automated mash. S.:tank:
Click to expand...

So...tell me if this sounds like the right idea:

4 Temperature Probes:
1) Boil Kettle
2) Mash Tun
3) Hot Liquor Tun
4) Probe for Wort flowing out of HLT and back into MLT

2 Outputs:
1) Pilot Light
2) Scolenoid Valve on HLT

This would allow me to monitor the temperature on all my vessels and control the burner for the HLT. Thus, if I wanted to a step mash, I would always have the pump flowing, but I'd control the heat of the water in the HLT with the Scolenoid valve. Pilot light would essentially stay on during the entire mash....if so, would that even need an output?

Questions: How much is a float switch and a switch for the pumps to control an automated fly sparge?

Right now I'm thinking this rig would cost me to batch sparge:

$200 Box of Miracles
$64 for Probes from ECC website
$10 for 1 relay for Scolenoid Valve
$120 Scolenoid Valve
$100 Immersion Chiller for HLT Coil
$50 Fittings for Chiller in HLT
$70 Tubing & Disconnects
$150 Pump

Total - $764

What am I missing/miscalculating?
 
Do you already have burners?

Solenoid for Brew Kettle
Relay for Brew

I'm willing to bet that there's little parts here and there that add up to more than you're calculating.

Tubing is expensive. Fittings are expensive. Are you planning on hard plumbing the gas? There's extra $.

I'm sure that it will end up being $800-$900 total.

I've been pricing my system out as well. My shopping list is almost complete. I've already checked off a bunch of things.

Adam-How about changing the name of the BCS to the Box of Miracles? I think it's viable.
 
slimer said:
Do you already have burners?

Solenoid for Brew Kettle
Relay for Brew

I'm willing to bet that there's little parts here and there that add up to more than you're calculating.

Tubing is expensive. Fittings are expensive. Are you planning on hard plumbing the gas? There's extra $.

I'm sure that it will end up being $800-$900 total.

I've been pricing my system out as well. My shopping list is almost complete. I've already checked off a bunch of things.

Adam-How about changing the name of the BCS to the Box of Miracles? I think it's viable.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting your stuff Slimey? It sounds like you've done your research!

What are you getting the solenoid for the BK for? Just to automate that as well?
 
Stevorino said:
So...tell me if this sounds like the right idea:

4 Temperature Probes:
1) Boil Kettle
2) Mash Tun
3) Hot Liquor Tun
4) Probe for Wort flowing out of HLT and back into MLT

2 Outputs:
1) Pilot Light
2) Scolenoid Valve on HLT

This would allow me to monitor the temperature on all my vessels and control the burner for the HLT. Thus, if I wanted to a step mash, I would always have the pump flowing, but I'd control the heat of the water in the HLT with the Scolenoid valve. Pilot light would essentially stay on during the entire mash....if so, would that even need an output?
i
Click to expand...

You have the Idea, I would most likely put the pump on an output as well and then I would elevate the HLT, to let gravity do the sparge for you. Of course you would then need a output for a solenoid there as well. Just remember if you can dream it, then there is a way. It may not end up how you envision it, but anything is posable. So "let her buck!". S.
 
Stevorino said:
Whatt am I missing/miscalculating?
Click to expand...

I'd recommend getting as many SSRs as you can. They're usually sold in batches of 3-5 on ebay. You can get 5 for $40 if you shop around. That way you can automate your pump, maybe fermentation temp control or kegerator, you get the idea..

You might not think its necessary to automate your pump, since it'll run the whole time. But trust me, there's something very satisfying about clicking a button and watching your whole system spring to life... :mug:

One thing that your missing in your list is the pilot light. Depending on what you want there for safety, some solutions can get pricey.
 
The solenoid for the brew kettle I would think be a part of the sparge process.

I'm going electric, but I was thinking about going NG for a long time. If you want to offboard some of the sourcing discussion to PM, I'll give you my list.
 
slnies said:
So here is the deal on your question. You can program the BCS-460 with a timer to limmit your cycle duration. So for instance, you have the level sensor set two inches above the grain bed, and you want it to get no lower than an inch above the grain bed. When the water falls bellow the the sensor, the timer is triggered, the amount of time that it takes to get to you one inch above the grain bed, becomes the cycle time. Did I answer your question? If you want a better explanation just let me know. S.
Click to expand...

Thanks slnies; got ya covered on what you explained, simple (like me) and effective works best. The more I read about the BCS the more I can not understand why people are wasting money on PID's, gas valves, pilot lights and spark ignition systems when an all electic heating and a BCS-460 is all that is needed. Thanks.
 
eccsynd said:
No worries Carl, I'll keep a controller with your name on it. Concentrate on getting better. Adam
Click to expand...
Thanks Adam, looking forward to these spinal injections next monday if they will help. Up until 3:30am to 5:00am then down, up at 7:00am i'm at my pain limits. I'll ASAP square away with you with this purchase. All I can say at the at the moment besides your a true gentleman towards me. Thanks. Carl.....
 
slnies said:
No, You would actually need two. You would need a output to control your gas/pilot valve system on the HLT and an output to control the pump for the recirc. through the HERMS for the MLT. You could set the system up a couple of different ways. You could leave the circ. pump on constantly and step temperatures with the HLT or you could set the HLT to one temp, say 160F and use the pump for control of the temperature in the MLT. One is not better than the other in my opinion. Either way you have a completely automated mash. S.:tank:
Click to expand...

I turn the pump on and off to maintain temp, works great. I did a step mash last time I brewed. This little black box rocks.
 
Adam and slnies; so far everythings under control as well the timer delay Adam stated the 460 can control from the stainless LED level control probe. I understand this being an electrician. Tell me if i'm right or wrong here on one probe I will have to add to before order time when i'm able to get up and become mobile again.

Questions:This will be a HERMS system so the four 4" long probes will be used. One in the HLT, one in the HERMS coil output before flowing to the MLT, one probe at the bottom of the MLT near the outlet of the MLT headed back to the HLT coil inlet and one probe for the boil kettle. All these at 4" long. Would I gain anything by using a 6" long probe instead of a 4" probe at the bottom of the MLT near the outlet fitting heading back to the coil in the HLT?
Would a 6" get a better signal or reading of the mash being 2" deeper inside the MLT vs a 4" probe at this outlet at the bottom of the MLT? Thanks as everyone's been great. Note; all I need is a new back then i'm ready to construct my crazy brewing project.
Take care all. Carl........
 
BrewBeemer said:
Questions:This will be a HERMS system so the four 4" long probes will be used. One in the HLT, one in the HERMS coil output before flowing to the MLT, one probe at the bottom of the MLT near the outlet of the MLT headed back to the HLT coil inlet and one probe for the boil kettle. All these at 4" long. Would I gain anything by using a 6" long probe instead of a 4" probe at the bottom of the MLT near the outlet fitting heading back to the coil in the HLT?
Would a 6" get a better signal or reading of the mash being 2" deeper inside the MLT vs a 4" probe at this outlet at the bottom of the MLT? Thanks as everyone's been great. Note; all I need is a new back then i'm ready to construct my crazy brewing project.
Take care all. Carl........
Click to expand...

Well, Big Dog, You have the general idea. As far as placement of all the probes; I agree with all but the last in the MLT: the one at the bottom. This is purely a matter of personal perspective though. I would go with a six inch probe here, and then place it six inches off the bottom, or about the mid point on the MLT, dependent on your average mash size. My reason is that I think you will get a better mash temp that is more representative of the whole mass as opposed to a cooler temp of the wort closer to a surface on the way out. The temp differential may only be a few degrees, but then again, if you want to know that temp, just watch the manifold probe. It will cycle a few degrees, the cooler temp being what is at the bottom as this is what will trigger the PID to to turn on and off.

The short answer is it would be well worth your money to get the longer probe. It is really up to you on how you want to place it. In reality, my comment on top aside, where you want to put the probe is fine as well. I have been know to split hairs before, and this one might be one of them.;) S.
 
slnies; actually I do see a flaw in my own design as you stated, the main mass temp at the bottom were I stated the 6" probe would be is in the wrong location. Better to read the mash temp like you stated at least 6" up from the bottom to get a more true mass temp reading besides going in deeper with a 6" instead of the 4" probe, the longer probe will read deeper mash temps for a better overall mash mass temp. You know these kegs are different? PM will be sent in a few minutes don't go away as I want to touch base with you. On the MLT the pump will be running all the time just throttled down to the proper flow for the HERMS to operate properly.
Thanks. Carl.....
 
BrewBeemer,

Question about how you are planing to use a temp prob on the outflow of your herms. Is your coil inside the HLT or a seperate pot. thanks
 
p4ck37p1mp said:
I turn the pump on and off to maintain temp, works great. I did a step mash last time I brewed. This little black box rocks.
Click to expand...
Excellent! It is great to read about your success. Tell me how your beer turns out when its finished. S.:fro:
 
tarheels said:
BrewBeemer,

Question about how you are planing to use a temp prob on the outflow of your herms. Is your coil inside the HLT or a seperate pot. thanks
Click to expand...


tarheels; I was planning on one 4" probe in the side of the HLT around the middle of the keggle between the HERMS coils plus using one of the 8" or 9" bronze outboard racing props of 40's/50's era I have a from the family racing, I must add this item to this project. The prop will be connected to a variable speed stir gearmotor. Zero to 82 rpm motor speed controled from a tennis ball machine I salvaged. It has a 90 VDC gearmotor with controller off 120 VAC. On the discharge of the HERMS coil between the HLT and MLT another 4" probe to get the exact temps entering the MLT when the HERMS circulation pump and stir motor are running. The plan I have is to heat the HLT with 11KW, two 5.5KW elements not in direct contact inside the HLT's water. This quick temp rise controlled by the probe on the side of the HLT until close to the set temp. After i've come close to set temp in the HLT then switch to the MLT and repeat the same heating operation. When the HLT and MLT are near the set temps then have one 5.5KW element under each, the MLT and HLT energized to heat until the set temp is reached. The HERMS pump and stir prop will run thru out the mash process. This way my maximum wattage will be 11KW for both elements, stir motor, the BCS-460 unit a few odd LED lights I might add. Like I posted above going to a 6" long probe instead of 4" but placing it somewhere like 6" off the bottom of the MLT, the temp in the MLT should be rather stable thru out the total mash time, well that's the plan.
With 186 sq/in surface area not counting added area from the dished bottom of the keggles call it 190 sq/in surface area plus electrically heated this allows for low even heating temps from the bottom without hot spots or extreme high temp differences on the bottom that a propane or NG burner might add to the mash. This should result in a low stable temp thru out the MLT. Just a probe order change instead of just four 4" probes from Adam I would add two 6" probes to my order. This way i'll have a probe length choice plus a 6" probe in hand for the future conical fermenter. I will add sight tubes to all the keggles on this project.
Shipping for one $16 item later will cost me almost as much as the item itself. Heck order everything at once and be done.

Unless they make me into a voodoo doll this coming monday plus keeping me on heavy meds i'll end up buying a round of drinks while in this mellow mood. You wouldn't believe how long it took to type this this reply seeing double then walking the house many times as I can not sit or stand very long even the way I feel even on meds. No bier now this really sucks while on heavy meds, I can only sample sniff what i'm missing. Done rambling. And they call this it "better living thru drugs", I hate the dang things just give me my suds. Did I answer your questions or confuse you more? Hell i'm confused myself lately. The wife felt sorry for me and came home with some non alcoholic bier while i'm on these heavy meds plus morphine sulfate when needed. Now that's an insult for the taste buds. About as bad as a UV destroyed Corona, yuck is a mild reply.
 
Any pics of systems using the controller. Just purchased mine and will start putting things together in the coming weeks. I'm sure lots of questions to follow.
 
For no particular reason, i have been posting on the northern brewer forum predominantly on this subject so I have a couple of posts that speak both abstractly and concretely on the subject.

The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - Test Drive a BCS-460 Temperature Controller

The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - iphone control my brewery...

and I think the one you really want is this one that show's some blood:

The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - Got my beta unit! (was: Temp Controller Beta testers needed)

Where is your brewery conceptually? Mine is all electric except from 168->boil temps. HERMS using a Chillzilla as the heat exchanger. 10 Gallons, ~3000 watts.

Another (local) bcs owner and I have been talking about documenting some of the stuff we have built, it's fun like having an erector set again, making stuff and learning about random things like the difference between 120V AC led's(really called voltage indicators) and DC led's and how to use them, and so forth. He has been building a nice box to contain all the electrical which while not necessary, has proven to be an entertaining game of one-upsman-ship, he is currently beating me hands down. But like any good race, i haven't really started, so I get to steal all his ideas, then it will be his turn to one up me.
 
In fact, one of our beta testers is developing an iPhone app.
Click to expand...

in case you didn't notice the thread above the iphone app is the new thread, it has been submitted to apple and the need for a laptop of any sort while brewing should be greatly diminished i like to think if you have an ipod touch or iphone. And if it's not I will release a newer version of Brew Buddy, the iphone interface to the bcs. I will post a link to the itunes store when the application makes it's way through the apple approval process.
 
Yeah, and you wouldn't have that pesky monthly contract to go with it... :)
 
np0x said:
In case you missed my other thread, the iphone app for the bcs-460 is now in a released 1.0 state: http://software.druidhillroad.com for screen shots, video and itunes link.:ban:
Click to expand...

That is sweet. Call the rig and get the water started, then call the wife to tell here that you will be brewing the second you are home. My wife might kill me, but the cool factor might make up for the added pain.
 
tarheels said:
Any pics of systems using the controller. Just purchased mine and will start putting things together in the coming weeks. I'm sure lots of questions to follow.
Click to expand...

brewdevilbuild221.jpg



BrewDevil Build
 
are you HERMS brewers recirculating continuous or just when needed to maintain temp. trying to put the process down on paper, thanks for help
 
tarheels said:
are you HERMS brewers recirculating continuous or just when needed to maintain temp. trying to put the process down on paper, thanks for help
Click to expand...

I recirculate continuously to maintain temps. I use a converted sanke keg as a MT so it tends to loose heat much faster than say, a gott cooler. The HERMS really works well in maintaining the temps as well as doing small temp adjustments. For example: I try to mash-in a few degrees below my target temp. I then set the PID to the target temp, turn the pump on etc. The mash reaches the target temp in 3-4 min. and then the constant recirculation/HERMS keeps it there until I am ready to sparge (I don't do a mash-out). Oh, I should mention that I currently don't use the BCS-460 (I have a PID) but I am planning on "upgrading" my system this summer and incorporating the BCS. Hope that helps.
 
thanks, that helps alot, i to will use a converted keg. this is slowly coming along.
 
In the process of converting 3 sanke kegs to brewing vessels, the automation provided by the BCS-460 is exactly what I've been looking for - very nice work.

/subscribe
 
Hey guys I'm looking to purchase a OS for my Brutus 10 build and I'm leaning towards the BCS but was wanting your opinions on what you use or prefer. Also why would I buy the BCS-462 over the BCS-460? Is there that big of a difference? Thanks for the help!
 
The primary differences between the 460 and 462 are the number of inputs/outputs.

The BCS-462 interactive temperature controller:
8 temperature inputs
8 discrete inputs
18 discrete outputs (6 PWM)

BCS-460 interactive temperature controller:
4 temperature inputs
4 discrete inputs
6 discrete outputs (6 PWM)

I have the BCS-460. I got mine shortly after it was released, so the 462 wasn't available yet. I use mine primarily for the mash on my eHERMS. I'm using two of the four temp inputs (one for HEX and one for HLT) and three outputs to control three solid state relays (HEX, HLT, and pump). It's the only controller I've ever used so I can't really comment on other controllers (e.g. Ranco, Brew Troller, etc.) but I love it. Ranco temp controllers seem to work great but they don't allow quite as much automation as a BCS system. Brew Troller is pretty sweet and even more flexible than the BCS from what I've seen but you also have to be pretty comfortable with electronics in order to set them up. If you haven't already done so, think about everything you want to control on your brew rig. You can also use it for controlling a kegerator and/or fermentation chamber, so keep those in mind too. Total up the number of temp inputs you need and that should help you decide between the 460 and 462.
 
lotwookie -

I'm building my control box around a 460, since I think I'll only need 4 temperature inputs (1 HLT, 1 KT, 1 HERMS, 1 fermenting chamber). If you think you'll need more temp monitoring go with the 462.

Another option to consider is that you can add an additional 12 discrete outputs and 4 discrete inputs by adding a digi16 for $34. Nice expandability. I think you can even piggy back these to get upwards of 36 additional outputs and 12 additional inputs. These are great if you find yourself wanting to fully automate your system beyond simple pumps and temps.

PLOVE
 
Post snatch alert!

For those of you with a 460, how did you mount the 10 pin connectors to your control boxes. The 462 pin connectors seem to have wings with screw holes, the 460 does not. I'd like to be able to "plug" the BCS in when I need, and remove it when I don't. This neccessitates mounting the pin connectors . . .

thanks,
PLOVE
 
PLOVE said:
lotwookie -
Another option to consider is that you can add an additional 12 discrete outputs and 4 discrete inputs by adding a digi16 for $34.
PLOVE
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, the digi16 does not add any additional temperature inputs. If you need more than four you will need to buy the 462.

PLOVE said:
For those of you with a 460, how did you mount the 10 pin connectors to your control boxes. The 462 pin connectors seem to have wings with screw holes, the 460 does not. I'd like to be able to "plug" the BCS in when I need, and remove it when I don't. This neccessitates mounting the pin connectors . . .
Click to expand...
My 460 is mounted remotely in the basement. I ran some cat6 from the garage (where I brew) to the basement. I used some industrial strength velcro to mount the 460 itself, but I didn't mount the green connector to anything. You might be able to rig something up using something similar. I rarely unplug mine.
 

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