bottle with honey? coffee?

i'm thinking about bottling with honey...anyone done this? my question, really, is weather or not you are actually adding any taste to the beer. I've been using cane sugar and been pleased (i read a book about corn sugar and don't use it anymore...call me a hippie).

was going to to it to my stout, give it a little color.

i'm also considering adding coffee to the stout...from what i read (in one of the popular books) some fridge-brewed coffee added to the bottling bucket can be a nice touch.

Can't say much about honey, except it ferments VERY SLOW...So it might take forever to carb.
As far as Coffee...I LOVE coffee in my stout. My first batch, I was scared to add too much and put 2 strong cups of coffee in the secondary...couldn't even taste it...then I added a whole pot of triple strength coffee...TOO MUCH! I ended up liking about 6 cups of coffee in the secondary (Bottling bucket would be good too) made about 2 or 3 times as strong as you would usually drink it. It won't be coffee flavored beer, it will be beer with a coffee flavor.

Regarding honey for priming

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=35438


Looks like the main issues are being able to determine sugar content and that honey ferments very slowly, therefore it will take longer to carb.

As for coffee. You could add it to the bottling bucket and mix. A better option would be to add it to a secondary and let sit two weeks allowing the coffee flavor to better infuse into your beer.

ya i think the secondary thing might be a better idea....however do you think I should add the pre-brewed coffee or lightly grind up some beans and let them 'brew' in the secondary?


the honey thing might be a big over my head right now...

You didn't say if you were breweing with grains or extract only. If you are brewing with grains and wanted a honey flavor I would use honey malt. I have used them in a few batches ( half pound ) and I love the added sweet honey flavor. Honey in beer just ferments out and adds ABV but little flavor.

I have used honey to prime Apfelwein. I used half corn sugar and half honey, but I was planning on long term bottle aging with this batch since I already had a case or two ready to drink. I guessed low on the amounts, and it wasn't as carbed as I wanted it to be, but it does taste really good.

I got some stout with coffee in a swap and it was great. If I remember correctly, he cold brewed it to avoid coffee oils and added it to the secondary.

EVAN is the one that sent me that one... I found my notes from Nov 29th

"The Cappaccino Stout was absolutley extrordinary. "Inundated with several shots of local Shenandoa Joe Cofee Roasters 'Dark Horse' Espresso" Holy Sh*t! This was amazing. I believe this beer would win awards. " I would check with Evan:rockin:

hippie

i actually despise the taste of corn sugar, so i don't use it in any recipes. i still use it when i bottle, as i had some horrible luck with extract (probably just the brand.) corn sugar works fine and you can't taste it after it's finished, thankfully. i primarily keg right now anyway

my friend makes an awesome coffee porter that we take to the desert each year. he added a ton of coffee last year (almost a whole pot, i think) and it tasted wonderful.

i recently added coffee at bottling for a porter (split batch). I used 16oz. water steeped with coarsely ground beans (double amount- @ 5 TB). this was cold-steeped in a french press for 1-2 days in the fridge. i then ran this throiugh a coffee filter which gave me a yield of 12oz. for a 2.5 gallon batch. THIS GAVE TOO MUCH OF A COFFEE TASTE. It was at the front, vying for all other flavors, and beating them out. If cold steeping coffee, my advice is to use anywhere from 6-12 oz. MAX of coffee for the 5 gallon batch. Start with 6-8 oz. then work your way up by tasting it. I don't think i would exceed 10-12 oz though. My $.02.

mhot55 said:

If cold steeping coffee, my advice is to use anywhere from 6-12 oz. MAX of coffee for the 5 gallon batch.

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My my coffee stout, I course ground 10oz of Starbucks House Blend. Placed in a 44oz bottle of filtered water, and left in fridge for 24 hours.

During bottling, I paper-filtered, then pastuerized at 170. Not really needed, but just to be safe.

Came out with a strong coffee flavor- Exactly what I wanted, and still has perfect head (which is the main purpose of the cold filtering). The OG was kept low so make it more of a "Breakfast beer", as its called.

nick

HP_Lovecraft said:

My my coffee stout, I course ground 10oz of Starbucks House Blend. Placed in a 44oz bottle of filtered water, and left in fridge for 24 hours.

During bottling, I paper-filtered, then pastuerized at 170. Not really needed, but just to be safe.

Came out with a strong coffee flavor- Exactly what I wanted, and still has perfect head (which is the main purpose of the cold filtering). The OG was kept low so make it more of a "Breakfast beer", as its called.

nick

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i used 4 oz beans for 2.5 gallons which is close to using your 10 oz. for 5 gallons. you just diluted it with more water...this should make a difference in strength. I would assume 44 oz. of diluted coffee (10 oz. beans) wouldn't be as strong as 24oz. (if i doubled to 5 gallons) of concentrated strong coffee (8-10 oz. beans).
All the same, you admit to a strong coffee taste. Was it as strong as your sout flavors, or was it in the backround... i was looking for a more subdued, but nicely present taste of coffee...maybe i'll try your way or just use the same amount i used but for a 5 gallon batch.

hardrain said:

(i read a book about corn sugar and don't use it anymore...call me a hippie).

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omnivore's dilemma? yeah, it made me reconsider the corn sugar too.

i spent some time thinking about it and decided not to throw out the baby (bottling sugar, which is small in amount and has a good reason for being there) with the bathwater (the mountains of corn-derived additives that i try to avoid in my food). and i like to think that i'm still a hippie.

besides, i wouldn't consider cane sugar to be a model of responsible agriculture. honey could be better, if you know where it came from.

john from dc said:

omnivore's dilemma? yeah, it made me reconsider the corn sugar too.

i spent some time thinking about it and decided not to throw out the baby (bottling sugar, which is small in amount and has a good reason for being there) with the bathwater (the mountains of corn-derived additives that i try to avoid in my food). and i like to think that i'm still a hippie.

besides, i wouldn't consider cane sugar to be a model of responsible agriculture. honey could be better, if you know where it came from.

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yup.

i've been using organic cane sugar (from trader joes, i live in DC also), and i agree it's not exactly ideal. Even organic food has some unintended consequences and isn't really super sustainable. i dont know much about the source cane sugar to be honest (ie how it is farmed).

I dont eat many processed foods to begin with, so that book was more of a eye opener than a real life changer, but consider that I am still in the initial "f**k that" stage. I'm a bit of a free thinker myself, although I would say a lot more like the lazy dirty hippy than the clean fashionable hipster hippy....although i did rent a prius once when I had to make a trip for work.

i'm sorry i'm uncultured in this respect. What is the corn sugar issue?

a very long story, i really do suggest the book.

basically corn is genetically engineered to not need nutrients but still grow, then the government subsidizes it to make it really cheap for the processing plants...the market price is almost nothing so there is really no reason for the subsidy buts its done anyway, encouraging over production of corn despite the pennies per bushel price. then not quite real corn is processed with several chemical compounds and processes to create something that can't really even be called food in many instances...corn isn't that good for you in the first place so the processed versions of it really should be avoided. thats one small part of the basic principal, at least my view of it.

there are all kinds of other issues: sustainability, the feed that goes to cows instead of processing plants, on and on.

yeah, one of the most basic ills about corn (of which the book has hundreds) is the amount of synthetic nitrogen rich fertilizer it takes to grow the amount of corn we use year after year. that stuff all washes into the groundwater, and then the rivers, and eventually the ocean. it has some really bad measurable effects, including a "dead zone" in the gulf of mexico about the size of new jersey.

but that's just the end result, it sounds pretty alarmist when taken on its own. the book is really well done and not too preachy. he doesn't say you should stop eating corn or even processed foods, he mostly just lists verifiable data and paints a picture without making wild leaps in logic or shoving a bunch of guilt down your throat. i liked it a lot and have a pretty low tolerance for knee-jerk envirobabble.

I actually went to see Michael Pollan speak last fall near Charlottesville VA last fall. He pretty much just rehashed a lot of what was in the Omnivore's Dilema. I still enjoyed it though.

For anyone who has not read the book, here is an interview that hits the high points:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/meat/interviews/pollan.html

I really enjoyed the section of the book on Polyface farms which is close to C-Ville.

hardrain said:

I've been using cane sugar and been pleased (i read a book about corn sugar and don't use it anymore...call me a hippie).

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Northern brewer has an organic priming sugar. They say:

"Organic Priming Sugar. Made from organic tapioca dextrose. Great for priming an all-organic homebrew. Use 5 oz. per 5 gallons."

That may be an option for you.

s3n8 said:

I actually went to see Michael Pollan speak last fall near Charlottesville VA last fall. He pretty much just rehashed a lot of what was in the Omnivore's Dilema. I still enjoyed it though.

For anyone who has not read the book, here is an interview that hits the high points:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/meat/interviews/pollan.html

I really enjoyed the section of the book on Polyface farms which is close to C-Ville.

Click to expand...

ive read the book but you are right, thats a good interview, i like the guys tone.

one funny point that is actually kind of related to homebrewing: when i moved to dc there was a story in the Post about how they have found something like 70% of fish in the Potomac with sexual mutations due to the pollution, it's the reason I had water delivered to my apartment before internet/heat/even a table to eat at...anyway one the biggest pains for me on brew day is carrying all the gallons of water of the stairs. Delivery costs about $2-$2.5 a gallon, but you can buy milk jugs for .$.89, so it makes more sense to do it that way.

all because of corn...lol.

mhot55 said:

Was it as strong as your stout flavors, or was it in the backround....

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At bottling time, it tasted very strong. Overwhelming. After a couple weeks conditioning, it mellowed drastically. I had used a whole pound of roasted barley as well, as I wanted something a bit complex anyway. At this point it is exactly where I wanted it.

As far as amounts, many here have said that the amount of water for the cold extract is critical because there is a finite saturation amount that limits how much can be extracted from the coffee grains.

nick

Thanks for the explanation....I'm surprised there aren't already more efforts out there to provide organic ingredients....I myself have found that i'm unconsiously moving towards more organics in my cooking, gardening, cleaning supplies...well lots of stuff....but I still have my "vices" I don't plan to go totally organic until I own my own house...just not possible given my living arrangement.

I think i'm gonna get that book though.

HP_Lovecraft said:

At bottling time, it tasted very strong. Overwhelming. After a couple weeks conditioning, it mellowed drastically. I had used a whole pound of roasted barley as well, as I wanted something a bit complex anyway. At this point it is exactly where I wanted it.

As far as amounts, many here have said that the amount of water for the cold extract is critical because there is a finite saturation amount that limits how much can be extracted from the coffee grains.

nick

Click to expand...

I agree mine is a little strong on the coffee side, but you're right, it has mellowed somewhat in just a short time period. Tastes real good though. If it mellows a bit more i'll be really happy, if it doesn't it still tastes great.

I just want to let you know what Ive done, results will be reported in 4-6 weeks, by which time this thread will probably be forgotten

anyway, about 4/5th cup of coffee grinds, course, and 2/5th gallon of watter. I actually poured the grinds into a half filled jug, let seep over night and then added to secondary. I tased the coffee and it's a bit weak....also disspointed to discover that I had to leave a little of the beer behind in the fermenter.

I filled up a 'miss mud' jug with a screw on top and added a little brown sugar...i'm fully expecting this to be horrible but it's better then dumping it down the drain:

question, though, is this thing going to explode on me? it only fermented for 8 days...

i've searched here and other places regarding coffee additions. it seemed the cold steeping was the best bet. the issue is how much? how many grinds, and how much water. i think i was heavy handed on the coffee, yet i saw recipes using much more coffee (already brwed) than i did. i know mine was a strong steeped coffee, but some call for huge amounts.

I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES HERE IS THE QUALITY OF COFFEE BEANS!!! I grind my own, and they are very fresh. and great quality. i used Kona beans which were roasted only 10 days before i threw them into my batch. Although it is hard to judge, take into accountif you're using Maxwell House (UGHHH!) or even if you have a good brand, but it's been sitting around for a month or so (especially if it's already been ground). This will definitely affect the taste, strength and aroma of your batch.

using crappy coffee would, indeed, be a crime. pointless too. we have several pounds of very good, high quality beans and i ground right before also.

i'm a little concerned i may have used a bit much, but like you i've seen several people call for much more....we'll see in a couple weeks i suppose.