Question about Sour Flavors

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uatuba

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I have never had a sour beer. I had the chance to buy a Gueuze Cuvée Rene today, but at $6.50 for a 12 oz, I wanted to do some digging and see if there was a good chance of me enjoying it.

When I looked it up it had a great rating from the rating sites...but upon reading the comments I saw descriptors like "orange" and "lemon" and "sour patch kids" and so on. This is not what I had imagined a sour to taste like AT ALL. I hate citrus in almost all forms (with the exception of limes). I had always imagined the sour flavors as "dairy-like" sour (which I would enjoy) rather than "citrusy/tangy/tear-jerker" sour.

So which is it? Or are all sours not created equally (I know they aren't...but are they all lemony/vinegary or are some more toward the stinky cheese end of the sour spectrum)?




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I wanted to do some digging and see if there was a good chance of me enjoying it.
Ever tried explaining color to a blind man?

I saw descriptors like "orange" and "lemon" and "sour patch kids" and so on. This is not what I had imagined a sour to taste like AT ALL.
Oranges and lemons (and tart cherries!) are sour. Most have flavors like citric acid, though it's usually lactic that causes the real taste.

So which is it?
Both. Sometimes neither.

Or are all sours not created equally
This is why a lot of us prefer the term "Wild Brewing". They're not equal. They're not even predictable.
 
I am blind, you jerk!

Ok I'm not...just wanted to make you sweat a little ;)

Seriously...if anyone can recommend a dairy-like sour commercial beer, I'm up for trying it. I would have been sorely disappointed with a beer that tasted like lemon Warheads, though...


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It sounds like you are looking for lactic acid, Lactobacillus is what you want to look for. Problem is, most beers are combinations of Pediococcus, Lacto, and Brett. I have found most sours tend toward citric and acetic. I have not had one that I would describe as predominantly lactic (dairy, as in yogurt type sourness).
 
Thanks so much! That helps me make my decision...I can scratch them off the list of "things to try when I'm the one paying for it."


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Cascade brewery in Portland is only lacto and a little Brett that gets in from the barrels and the fruit. They are my favorite sours. Most people will disagree but I love the lacto bombs the produce. I've been having very good results making sours from stepped up dregs from their bottles. Very clean sours with amazing aroma. I would look on their website and order some of those. Try Vlad the Impaler or Bourbonic Plague. Those are some of their non fruit forward beers.


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It sounds like you are looking for lactic acid, Lactobacillus is what you want to look for. Problem is, most beers are combinations of Pediococcus, Lacto, and Brett. I have found most sours tend toward citric and acetic. I have not had one that I would describe as predominantly lactic (dairy, as in yogurt type sourness).

Pedio is a Lactic acid bacteria. There is no (well there may be a touch) citric acid in a sour, and usually very little to no acetic acid.

I wouldn't have described the taste as fruity. The sourness comes from Lactic acid, which is the acid that sours yogurt.

I realize it is a different type of beer from Cuvée Rene, but a Berliner Weisse is made with just Lactobacillus.
 
I didn't mean that I wanted to avoid fruity, necessarily...I don't want mouth-puckering sour. Sour cream and stinky cheese hearty sour is good to me, and that's what I always expected of sour beer especially since it does use the same bacteria to achieve its character (the lacto ones anyway). Everywhere I just read about Berliner Weisse used the words "lemony-citrus" and "tart," which really wasn't what I had in my mind as I said.

I know...I'm gonna have to breakdown and buy one at some point.

I like lemonade pie because of the good, smooth, and balancing sourness of the cream cheese. I hate lemonade because of the overwhelming citrus sourness of the lemons.
 
I think the only way to find out which sours you like best (if any) is to start trying some. There are plenty of them that do have what I'd call a citric flavor but they aren't intense like lemonade. The funkiness you find in a gueuze is pretty interesting and intriguing. Give it a shot and see what you think. The first time I had one I almost spit it back into the glass. Now it's one of my favorite styles.
 
Funk Metal by Jester King has a sour milk taste to it. It is probably my favorite beer right now, although they have toned down the sourness in the more recent batches they've made.
 
Pedio is a Lactic acid bacteria. There is no (well there may be a touch) citric acid in a sour, and usually very little to no acetic acid.

I wouldn't have described the taste as fruity. The sourness comes from Lactic acid, which is the acid that sours yogurt.

I realize it is a different type of beer from Cuvée Rene, but a Berliner Weisse is made with just Lactobacillus.

True on the Pedio but heterofermentative Lacto produce plenty of acetic acid (L. brevis is an example). The combination that I have seen produce the lowest acetic acid and highest lactic acid is S. cerevisiae and P. damnosus (now classified as P. acidilactici)
 
Thanks so much! That helps me make my decision...I can scratch them off the list of "things to try when I'm the one paying for it."

Craziness. Live a little.

Nearly every person I know who is addicted to sours now originally said they would never get into them.

Just try one...or two...or three. Split them with some friends if cost is an issue.
 
Not saying you're going to end up loving them, but you should at least try a couple for yourself.

Strangers on a forum can't accurately describe how your taste buds will perceive all of the subtle flavors that exist in sour beers.
 
I would buy at least three of about twenty different sours and see which ones you like. The rest can be shipped to myself for proper disposal. You can rest assured it will be handled according to all governing regulations at no cost to you.
 
Ok...I got to sample a Lindemans Framboise Lambic at a homebrew festival this Saturday. I liked it...so much so that I bought a bottle later that day.

How do others compare? I know this one uses raspberries and not all do, but I'm talking about the sour flavor in particular.
 
Lindemans Framboise is backsweetened and pasteurized. My wife loves it. She hates Lambic. That should give you an idea how it compares to traditional Lambic. Worlds apart.

As far as sours go, go pick up that bottle of Lindemans Gueuze Cuvee Rene. It's inexpensive for sours (I'll drop $40 plus on a 750 of the really good stuff), and still a good example of the Lambic/Gueuze end of the sour spectrum. If you don't want lemonade-like, I might actually steer clear of Berliner Weisse, as it often reminds me of lemonade (although usually nowhere near as sour).
 
Lindemans Framboise is backsweetened and pasteurized. My wife loves it. She hates Lambic. That should give you an idea how it compares to traditional Lambic. Worlds apart.

As far as sours go, go pick up that bottle of Lindemans Gueuze Cuvee Rene. It's inexpensive for sours (I'll drop $40 plus on a 750 of the really good stuff), and still a good example of the Lambic/Gueuze end of the sour spectrum. If you don't want lemonade-like, I might actually steer clear of Berliner Weisse, as it often reminds me of lemonade (although usually nowhere near as sour).


Sorry...it was the Gueuze that I liked. The Framboise we just poured, and it looks like wine. Now I see what they mean by "raspberry," whereas I was having difficult picking out that particular flavor when we poured the Gueuze. The Framboise doesn't taste bad but it's not my favorite.
 
If you liked the Lindeman's Gueuze, there are likely plenty of sours that you will like. That's a good gateway beer into the style and should prime you for some of what to expect in other sour beers. Not sure what you can get in your area, so its hard to make a ton of recommendations. But if you have a good beer store in the area that carries some sours, take note of the names and do some searching online or ask some more questions about specific beers here. Cuvée Des Jacobins Rouge is one that a lot of stores in most areas carry, and that is another really good one to start with. The Flanders Red style is completely different than lambic - sweeter, with more acetic - and you may find that you dig that style too.

Good job diving in...
 
I feel like $6.50 isn't that much to try something and get an answer vs asking people to explain it. You may hate it, or you may love it. At least you'll know. I've seen plenty of people think chicken was pork or pork is beef, so asking someone to explain a flavor isn't the best approach for determining if you'll like something.

 
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If you are balking at 6.50 for 12 oz of beer, sours beers are not for you. You will not find sour beer any cheaper than that.


FWIW Renee cuvee, while being the tallest midget offering from Lindemans leaves a lot to be desired.

The best widely available sour beer is Rodenbach Grand Cru and luckily for you it does not have a citrus flavor.
 
You're worried about $6.50 to try a bottle of sour beer? That is about as inexpensive as you'll find. I tried a Lindeman's before I ever started brewing and was hooked, it was sort of a gateway...:drunk: Now I have a few assorted bottles in the collection starting at about $8.99, and as much as ~$20.00 for a 375ml bottle! You can easily expect to pay more...

My advice to you is splurge for the $6.50 beer, it's cheap, if you don't like it lucky you. If you do like it, hold on to your wallet!
 
I'm not "worried" about anything. Damn, people...I have enough money to buy the bottle. What I don't have is the desire to buy something at an outrageous price that there is a great chance I won't enjoy. Being the pragmatic sort, I generally do research on new products, experiences, food, and the like...especially in lieu of jumping right in and throwing money at something "just because."

That doesn't mean I don't "try new things," but rather that there are so many "new things" out there, that I prefer to try those that are most likely going to appeal to me.

You have a right to do what you will with your money. I have that same right.


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