Don't sweat it too much. Just aim for 6.5 gal pre boil and start your timer when it starts to boil. After that first batch you'll have an idea of how much boils off. It will prob be in the 1 to 1.5 gal per hour range.
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400d
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hi everybody,
I'am a begginer and I have been reading this forum finding many very useful information.
Since I am just about to make my first all grain batch, there is one thing I just don't understand - it is the mash temperature.
If my target temperature is let's say 153F, and of course I have to get my water couple of degrees more which I can calculate using software.... so this is not a problem...
but for me the proble is how to maintain my mash temperature for 60 minutes???
I'am a begginer and I have been reading this forum finding many very useful information.
Since I am just about to make my first all grain batch, there is one thing I just don't understand - it is the mash temperature.
If my target temperature is let's say 153F, and of course I have to get my water couple of degrees more which I can calculate using software.... so this is not a problem...
but for me the proble is how to maintain my mash temperature for 60 minutes???
Some brewers use a kettle mash tun, and throttle a burner up/down to keep the temps stable. To me it's much easier to make a mash tun out of a chest cooler (rubbermaid/coleman), and just throw blankets over it to hold the temps stable. As long as you put your strike water in first, a few degrees above your calculated strike temp, and let it pre-heat for a few mins, you'll have no problems.
Search the forum for cooler mash tun, and you'll see plenty of info on how to do it.
Good luck.
I preheat my cooler mash tun, hit my temps exactly (using this calculator) and then wrap it around the sides with blankets and bungee cords and throw a pillow on top. I can leave it for hours without a single degree drop in temp.
The more volume you have and the less headspace, the better it will hold heat.
Don't mess with it too much, either. The more you open it up and stir and check your temp, the more loss you are getting. It's ok to check and stir a couple times, but every 10 minutes and you're going to get loss.
As for initial strike temp, leave your thermometer inside and let it sit for 10 minutes before checking the temp. The mash tun needs time to equalize and if you take an "immediate" reading, it may be off. Many people try to adjust their mash temp, when really it was right to begin with.
The more volume you have and the less headspace, the better it will hold heat.
Don't mess with it too much, either. The more you open it up and stir and check your temp, the more loss you are getting. It's ok to check and stir a couple times, but every 10 minutes and you're going to get loss.
As for initial strike temp, leave your thermometer inside and let it sit for 10 minutes before checking the temp. The mash tun needs time to equalize and if you take an "immediate" reading, it may be off. Many people try to adjust their mash temp, when really it was right to begin with.
cuinrearview
Well-Known Member
Simplicity is elegant to me. I've only done partial mashes so far and have used bath towels to wrap a small stock pot on the counter-top with great success. Lately I've been turning on the oven for a few minutes and just throwing the pot in there after heating the water on the stove and mixing in the grain and then shutting it off. Honestly, when going to all grain I think that holding temperature is probably one of the easiest things to figure out. There are so many insulators in our homes.
Mountainbeers
Well-Known Member
I might try this for my first batch. I'm always trying to save money!!
emgesp1
Well-Known Member
So, people are making it seem that an 8 gallon kettle pot is too small for medium sized beers.
1/2 gallon per lb of grain for sparge? Meaning if my recipe called for 13lbs of grain I would collect around 2.7 gallons of initial mash runnings, then I would need 6 gallons of sparge water for a total of 8.7 gallons of wort to be boiled down to 5 gallons?
I thought all you needed to know was how much preboil volume you need to be boiled down to 5 gallons and that number never changes. Meaning if I need 6.5 gallons of wort to be boiled down to 5 gallons in 60 minutes then the strength of the beer is not a factor as the only thing that changes is how much initial mash water you will add.
Ok, let's say I just follow the beersmith brewsheet and the target abv for the beer is 7%, am I going to end up with a 5% beer, because I didn't double my sparge water? If the difference in efficiency is only by a few points then I'm not even going to bother wasting another hour of boiling down wort just for a small gain in efficiency.
1/2 gallon per lb of grain for sparge? Meaning if my recipe called for 13lbs of grain I would collect around 2.7 gallons of initial mash runnings, then I would need 6 gallons of sparge water for a total of 8.7 gallons of wort to be boiled down to 5 gallons?
I thought all you needed to know was how much preboil volume you need to be boiled down to 5 gallons and that number never changes. Meaning if I need 6.5 gallons of wort to be boiled down to 5 gallons in 60 minutes then the strength of the beer is not a factor as the only thing that changes is how much initial mash water you will add.
Ok, let's say I just follow the beersmith brewsheet and the target abv for the beer is 7%, am I going to end up with a 5% beer, because I didn't double my sparge water? If the difference in efficiency is only by a few points then I'm not even going to bother wasting another hour of boiling down wort just for a small gain in efficiency.
I made a partial mash stout yesterday. My mash tun is a 3-gallon cooler that I wrap in a wool blanket to keep it warm. My mash temp started to drop after 30 min. Which is odd because last year it held temp for the full 60. Anyway, during the mash, if the temp drops, what is the harm, if any, in adding a little hot water to bring the temp back up?
I didn't worry about doing that yesterday, but thought I'd ask the question.
I didn't worry about doing that yesterday, but thought I'd ask the question.
Adding some hot water is fine if needed. My guess is though, that the spot you took your reading had cooled, or you stirred it up before checking, which can kill a few degrees. I'm sure you're fine.
Emgesp1: I make my 5 gal batches (6.5 pre boil) in a 10 gal kettle. The hot break has boiled over once when I was not paying attention, but it usually gets up there pretty high. An 8 gallon pot you will have to watch very closely. Get some fermcap to kill the foam and you should be fine.
For calculating volumes needed, I take first runnings, and measure with a dipstick, then I know exactly how much more water I need. At that point grain is saturated, so what goes in = what comes out. Don't over think it. Hope that helps.
Emgesp1: I make my 5 gal batches (6.5 pre boil) in a 10 gal kettle. The hot break has boiled over once when I was not paying attention, but it usually gets up there pretty high. An 8 gallon pot you will have to watch very closely. Get some fermcap to kill the foam and you should be fine.
For calculating volumes needed, I take first runnings, and measure with a dipstick, then I know exactly how much more water I need. At that point grain is saturated, so what goes in = what comes out. Don't over think it. Hope that helps.
OP
OP
First, I have been looking for an answer to this everywhere ... If I missed it, apologies for re-posting this.
I am coming up to speed with a few new gadgets in my brewing arsenal. My new CFC is the reason for the posting - how can I start a nice strong siphon??? I used it this weekend and only managed a weak flow at best.
I am trying to get the wort from the kettle (no spigot) to the CFC and into fermentor (pail or carboy).
Help??
-jayareo
I am coming up to speed with a few new gadgets in my brewing arsenal. My new CFC is the reason for the posting - how can I start a nice strong siphon??? I used it this weekend and only managed a weak flow at best.
I am trying to get the wort from the kettle (no spigot) to the CFC and into fermentor (pail or carboy).
Help??
-jayareo
I don't think you want to siphon boiling wort. The CFC would probably be enough resistance to not allow a good flow if any. A CFC is meant to be used gravity fed via a spigot, or circulated with a pump.
Could you add a spigot to your kettle?
Shoot. So the 8g pot I just got isn't really enough? I could send it back but that's discouraging. I should have come here first.
Your approach makes more sense but it would mean you had to wait for the first running to finish before starting to heat the second batch of water. You could guess but then we're back to trying to figure it out ahead of time and worrying about kettle size. But if I start going down this path I need to look into a dipstick to measure volume in the kettle - seems like a very handy thing to have.
If you use a little fermcap, or just watch closely and keep a spray bottle handy, you'll be ok. You can always upgrade to a larger kettle later, and use this one for heating water, and for extract batches or something.
I know that I usually need about 4-5 gallons after first runnings. I heat up 6 gallons (2 pots, 3 gal each) just in case and add the batch sparge water using a gallon pitcher so its easy to see how much I'm adding.
I know that I usually need about 4-5 gallons after first runnings. I heat up 6 gallons (2 pots, 3 gal each) just in case and add the batch sparge water using a gallon pitcher so its easy to see how much I'm adding.
jds
Well-Known Member
Nope. All you have to do is make sure you have enough sparge water heating in the first place. Brewing a five gallon batch? If you heat five gallons for sparging, you know you'll have enough water, no matter how much absorption you have in the grain bed. Leftover hot water is never a problem. Add a little Oxyclean, and you can clean up during the boil.
FWIW, I did my first AG brew in a 7.5 gallon enamelware kettle. It was a tight fit, but by watching it like a hawk and keeping a spray bottle of water handy, I was able to boil in it without a boilover. However, life got a lot easier after I bought a couple of decomissioned kegs from New Belgium. 15.5 gallons is a nice kettle size.
peterfuse
Well-Known Member
Can i just say thank you for this advice, you legend. Just completed my 15th or so all grain batch and increased my efficiency from 70% to 78%. All along ive been to scared to sparge too much in fear of extracting tannins, but going by your volumes i nailed it.
Only thing is now my beers gona be stronger, not a bad complaint.
Only thing is now my beers gona be stronger, not a bad complaint.
Thank you all for the information - advice, opinions, etc.
Happy to report that I was able to cool the wort briefly outside (MA temps yesterday were cool enough / kind enough to oblige), then transfer / strain to a bottling bucket. From there the gravity feed was perfect.
Put the cooled wort (64 F !!!) into the fermentor with no hitches. Man a CFC just whips A@$ on hot wort
After doing this, I realized that I could also - VERY easily - use my cooler (aka mash tun) to accomplish the same feat. All i would need to do is get the grains out sometime during the boil. Will likely try that next time.
Happy to report that I was able to cool the wort briefly outside (MA temps yesterday were cool enough / kind enough to oblige), then transfer / strain to a bottling bucket. From there the gravity feed was perfect.
Put the cooled wort (64 F !!!) into the fermentor with no hitches. Man a CFC just whips A@$ on hot wort
After doing this, I realized that I could also - VERY easily - use my cooler (aka mash tun) to accomplish the same feat. All i would need to do is get the grains out sometime during the boil. Will likely try that next time.
dregus
Well-Known Member
On my first batch of AG brew I accidentally messed up the mash temp. I had the mash temp around 165 but during sparging I noticed it dropped to about 160. So I turned on the burner and then got called away for a minutes. When i returned the mash temp was around 185. What are the affects on the batch?
165 is a pretty high mash temp. Most are done about 10-17 degrees lower than that.
You might have a low ABV beer with a very full body because of the higher mash temp.
You might have a low ABV beer with a very full body because of the higher mash temp.
185 is hot enough to stop the enzymes from breaking down the starches and sugars. It depends on how long it mashed in the acceptable temp range before you raised it to mash out temps. Also, as mentioned already 165 is way high. You usually want to keep it between 148-158 or so. How was your starting gravity?
Probably low fermentability and a high FG.
Just looked thru the whole thred and still didn't really awnser my question. So, Ill ask, I am still having trouble figuring how much sparge water is needed when I brew. I do 5 gal batches using a Gott cooler w/ false bottom and a sparge arm. Typical grain bills are 8-12 lbs. I normally heat 5 gal to sparge with but stop when im at 6.5-7 gal collected. But some times I feel I oversparge and then the next time feel like not enough. What can I do?
Is there any way of figuring.. Ok in this batch I will need exactly 4.3gal to sparge with and when the 4.3 has filtered thu and now is in the pot your done?
Is there any way of figuring.. Ok in this batch I will need exactly 4.3gal to sparge with and when the 4.3 has filtered thu and now is in the pot your done?
I batch sparge, so my gear is a little different and I don't have to worry about Ph or the gravity of the runoff, etc.
If you're fly sparging, I believe you just keep sparging until you hit your target pre-boil volume, or until your runoff is around 1.010 SG or so. There are probably hundreds of threads here already discussing this issue, try searching.
If you're fly sparging, I believe you just keep sparging until you hit your target pre-boil volume, or until your runoff is around 1.010 SG or so. There are probably hundreds of threads here already discussing this issue, try searching.
I also batch sparge, but from what i have read and done, seems like the best way is to figure out the volume of your first runnings (the amount of hot liquor that you get once you drain off the mash water - leaving enough to still cover your grain bed). Then I assume that i will need to sparge wiht the difference of your total boil volume less the first runnings.
That has gotten me close every time, since the grains have absorbed pretty much all the water they will during mashing.
This method does not, however, take into account your target pre-boil SG. I guess I have been lucky in that regards, as I am always in the ballpark so-to-speak (which means +/- 5.
That has gotten me close every time, since the grains have absorbed pretty much all the water they will during mashing.
This method does not, however, take into account your target pre-boil SG. I guess I have been lucky in that regards, as I am always in the ballpark so-to-speak (which means +/- 5.
I think I my have solved my problem at least for now. Sparge Pal app for the iPhone. Looks like a nice app and will help me get close to the correct amount of sparge water w/o over/under sparging. I'll let you know how it works at next brew date. Due to the snow storm/ work/ x-mas prob after the new year now.
OP
OP
It really isn't all that hard. Figure about 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water ber pound of grain for the mash then 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for the sparge. These amounts are for maximum efficiency. The problem is that with larger grain bills you end up with a large boil volume which requires a longer boil time. For bigger beers you can calculate with lower efficiency and just use more grains unless you don't mind a longer boil.
EDIT: Examples;
A beer with 8 pounds of grain would require 2 to 2 1/2 gallons of water. You would sparge with 4 gallons. You can estimate about .1 gallon per pound of grain water absorption. So depending on how much wort you lose in your tun, you will have about 5 1/2 to six gallons in the brew pot.
A 12 pound grain bill would use 3 to 3 3/4 gallons for mashing and 6 gallons for sparging. You will end up with about 7 to 7 1/2 gallons in the brew pot.
Dannypittman
Well-Known Member
Another all grain rookie mistake leads to discarded batch. I stepped away for just a few toooo many minutes and did not stir the brewpot on the stove while doing an infusion mash. The grains on the bottom got burned and that taste carried over to the beer. Stinks, because it was beautiful, clear, the perfect head, but it had the burnt taste that there was no getting past.
Do not make the mistake of heating grains and water at the same time. I did it for months with many batches successfully, but it requires constant stirring. 5 minutes can ruin / burn an entire batch. Add your heated water to the brewpot for mashing.
I may just get the igloo cooler back out.
Do not make the mistake of heating grains and water at the same time. I did it for months with many batches successfully, but it requires constant stirring. 5 minutes can ruin / burn an entire batch. Add your heated water to the brewpot for mashing.
I may just get the igloo cooler back out.
jds
Well-Known Member
For peak sparging efficiency, yes. Lately, I've been mashing thinner (like 2 qt/lb mash thickness) and sparging less. I'm only losing around 3% in brewhouse efficiency this way, but the thinner mash is easier to work with.
You have to remember, these numbers aren't carved in stone anywhere. You can adjust up or down as you wish, and you'll still be in the right neighborhood. I personally don't like to mash with less than 1 qt/lb, because it makes the mash hard to stir and slow to drain -- but again, it's a question of preferences. A big part of the art of brewing is figuring out how the process works FOR YOU, and then tweaking it as you need to. Frankly, I'd rather have a consistent 75% brewhouse efficiency with less hassle.
brewagentjay
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the shout-out.
Mike
This makes me think I can do this sooner that I thought. Amazing Site. Thanks.:rockin:
jds
Well-Known Member
That is exactly what it's all about -- getting the results YOU want, not the results a book or a podcast host or another HBT poster says you should be getting. Brew what you like, how you like, and you'll always have good beer to drink.
mattpicard
New Member
I am new to all grain. It seems like topping off if you come up short is not an option in all grain like it is in extract. Is this right? What is the difference?
Also, if I run the amount of sparge water through my mash tun as recommended, the runnings become much more grassy and bitter after a while. Do I want to leave these out or just forget about that and add the correct amount pre-boil?
THanks.
Also, if I run the amount of sparge water through my mash tun as recommended, the runnings become much more grassy and bitter after a while. Do I want to leave these out or just forget about that and add the correct amount pre-boil?
THanks.
You can certainly top of if you want or need to.
If I hit my efficiency at 5.5 gallons while I'm running off, I'll stop the sparge, let the rest of the mash drain and top off as needed. I've done it before the boil (with boiling water, to help it going) and I've done it after the boil with bottled water (to help with cooling.)
It could effect hop utilization with a more concentrated boil, but for most beers I think it has little to no effect.
It could effect hop utilization with a more concentrated boil, but for most beers I think it has little to no effect.
I was reading this thread and noticed that the question about why a 10 gallon tun will drop more in temperature when grain is added than a 10 gallon tun.
I have to ask, is anyone considering the starting temperature of the grain?
Here is an even wilder idea... if you wanted your post-drop Tun temperature to remain the same, would it make sense to pre-heat your grain to say, 150 degrees in your oven?
I have to ask, is anyone considering the starting temperature of the grain?
Here is an even wilder idea... if you wanted your post-drop Tun temperature to remain the same, would it make sense to pre-heat your grain to say, 150 degrees in your oven?
Synovia
Well-Known Member
Always. I use Promash to calc my temps, and there is a field for grain temp in the mash screen.
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