"No Chill" Containers

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kzimmer0817

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For those of you who no-chill, what are you using for containers?

Yesterday, I read thru the 130 page, 1291 post thread entitled, "Exploring No Chill Brewing."

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-no-chill-brewing-117111/

It is long and tedious but loaded with information. I commend Dr_Deathweed for his excellent explanation, but I sort of got lost towards the end of it - around midnight last night. In fact, I never really saw where the OP had completed his experiment. Anyway, there were several different HDPE vessels mentioned in the thread that would be useful for no-chilling:

1. The rectangular and round Winpacks from US Plastics
2. The blue Aquatainer from Walmart
3. A cube-shaped container that can be dumped out of
4. A cube-shaped container that has a spigot
5. Just leave it in the boil kettle.

Personally, I would prefer one that had a spigot so that I could simply drain into my fermentation vessel as opposed to picking up the container and trying to pour it into a funnel.

Before I purchase one of these, I would like to hear from any of you who have used these for no-chill. If you have experience with more than one container, I'd love to know which you preferred and why. For example, some were concerned about the blue Aquatainer from Walmart because the 2nd little stopper is one of those "push and pray" type.

I'd prefer not to go off on other no-chill tangents in this thread since they are well-covered in the original thread - including various no-chill techniques, hop schedule adjustment, fermenting in the container, and, even, recipe discussion.

I'd really like this to be a thread to which people looking to try no-chill can come to for quick information and recommendations on particular containers to use.

Thank you,
Keith
 
I have a designated plastic BrewCraft bucket I use to hold the wort. But then I put it in an icebath. Slow-Chill? It's been working really well for me. The bucket is just your regular brew fermenting bucket. No spigot on this one, ice bath...
After about 3-4 hours & a change of water, I'm at cooling temp, I then dump the wort into another fermenting bucket w/ spigot holding the yeast. Shake like hell. Doing this method for a while now with no problems in my ferments. Just keep it ALL SUPER CLEAN. As usual. :tank:
 
I use a corny keg; it's stainless steel, easy to clean, & seals tight. I have a spigot on my boil kettle so I drain right after flameout. Place the keg on my basement floor to chill; within 24 hrs I pitch the yeast.
 
Keith,
Can you please post a link for each of these where one can get that type of "cube"

1. The rectangular and round Winpacks from US Plastics
2. The blue Aquatainer from Walmart
3. A cube-shaped container that can be dumped out of
4. A cube-shaped container that has a spigot
 
I use the round 5 gal Winpak container, and it works well for me. For hoppy beers I usually chill, but if I do a low hop session beer (blonde ale, lite lager, dry stout) I'll brew 10 gal and drain off 5 gal into the Winpak and chill the other 5. I do this because I only have room in my ferm fridge for 5 gal. I'll ferment the first 5 gal batch, rack to a keg, and then pour off some of the yeast cake into a sanitized jar. Then clean the fermenter and pour off the next 5 gal from the Winpak into the fermenter and pitch part of the yeast cake from the first 5 gal. I've got 5 gal of a lite lager waiting in a Winpak now - it'll get fermented in about a week when the first 5 gals is completed.

The only thing I don't like about the Winpak is they are very hard to pour from without wort splashing all over. The wort likes to run down the side and splash a lot. I guess I could use an autosiphon and rack it to the fermenter, that would probably be less messy. If you pour from a Winpak, do it outside or somewhere you can hose off any spillage.
 
round winpak:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23285

Get the 6 gallon one. With a few drops of Fermcap and a less aggressive yeast you can ferment is this one too! You just need to have some type of aeration system to oxygenate the wort, then simply pitch the yeast, fit an airlock or rig a blow-off (or just wrap some foil over the opening), and let 'er go.

square winpak:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24733

this is the 7 gallon aquatainer, I bought mine at Walmart. As you can see the vent opening is sealed with a screw on cap that uses a silicone washer:
http://www.campmor.com/reliance-7-gallon-aqua-tainer.shtml

I have seen the push-and-pray style, wouldn't trust 'em. Make sure you find the ones with the screw on vent cap.

Hey Keith, you gonna git off the pot and brew something one of these days? :p

---Todd
 
I use a corny keg; it's stainless steel, easy to clean, & seals tight. I have a spigot on my boil kettle so I drain right after flameout. Place the keg on my basement floor to chill; within 24 hrs I pitch the yeast.

I'm assuming you keep the keg pressurized, right? Else you'd create a vacuum as it cools and it would suck in air and you'd no longer have a sterile environment in the keg.

I did no-chill in a corny once too - I kept it under pressure as it cooled off, and it worked well. It's definitely a good option for no-chill.
 
round winpak:
Hey Keith, you gonna git off the pot and brew something one of these days? :p

---Todd

Thanks for the links. I live 5 minutes from Walmart, so I'm going to investigate this container. I like to "watch" things, so I spent some money on a couple Better Bottles with the "Oh so special" valve in which to ferment. I like the No-Chill method because I don't have to be worried about getting my yeast ready (if I somehow think I need to rehydrate my yeast) at the same time I'm nearing the end of the boil.

I guess I could drill the cap on the Aquatainer as someone mentioned in the other thread and install a spigot. When I'm ready to transfer to the Better Bottle, I can carefully turn the container on its side and drain the cooled wort into the fermenter.

Regarding when I'm going to quit studying and start brewing, it's too darn hot right now. I'm slowly drinking up the B3 Stout I made (someone told me it was good, but I don't know) and the NB Pumpkin Ale along with a few store-bought beers (Samual Adams Summer Wheat and Blue Moon Seasonal Honey Wheat).

For the next brew(s), I want to do BIAB. I've found a few AG recipes for:
1. Honey Wheat
2. Honey Basil Ale
3. Ginger Beer (with lots of ginger)

BTW, I'm having trouble keeping a straight face when I read about "dry hopping" and "push and pray", and I'm afraid I'm going to make a Freudian slip. "Dry hopping" sounds too much like something a teenage patient told me many years ago that he and his girlfriend were doing. More recently, I asked a Christian young married couple what they were using for birth control, and the bride said "pull and pray.":eek: T.M.I.

Thanks,
Keith
 
FYI: the aquatainer does have a spigot, it's just screwed into the inside of the cap when you buy it. Works very well if you lay the container on the side and let it cool. When you go to drain it, all the crud will have settled into the bottom and the spigot is an inch or so higher so you don't get any crud in the fermenter (it leaves @ .75 gallon, so you have account for that in your volumes but you can always strain it through a coffee filter and salvage a quart of wort to make a starter with).

@bigljd: use a siphon, that'll let you get only clean wort and leave all the break, etc behind.

I have wrapped a plastic sandwich bag sprayed with starsan around the spigot in the pic below, but you get the idea.

6270659028_1d56a96e33.jpg
 
I think it important to note the difference between 'no chill' and 'slow chill'.

With no chill people are planning on storing the wort for an extended period of time (weeks, months, years).

With slow chill people are letting the wort cool withou the use of a chiller and pitching the yeast when it has cooled (usually within a few days to a week at most).

It makes a difference in the container you can use. For slow chill that will be pitch as soon as it's cooled you could keep it in the kettle or put it into a typical primary fermentor (bucket, better bottle, carboy). For long term storage with no chill, a win pak or similar product that can handle the suck back and hold the seal is needed.
 
robana: Just for the record, you are not advocating draining boiling wort (right at flameout) into a glass carboy or Better Bottle, are you? Perhaps I read you post (above) wrong? I just want to make sure that nobody tries that....I can guarantee that > 200F wort drained directly into a carboy or BB is not going to end well.
 
This is a well-timed thread. :) I've been wanting to try no-chill as well. I was thinking about just using my plastic fermenter directly (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23470&catid=752, type 2 HDPE). U.S. Plastics claims that they are ok to 190F. I would just pop the top to aerate and add the yeast after about 24 hours.

Anyone have any trouble with infection using a fermenter as the no-chill container? They probably won't seal as well as a winpack, but I feel like they would seal fairly well with the rubber o-ring and a solid bung in the air-lock hole...
 
robana: Just for the record, you are not advocating draining boiling wort (right at flameout) into a glass carboy or Better Bottle, are you? Perhaps I read you post (above) wrong? I just want to make sure that nobody tries that....I can guarantee that > 200F wort drained directly into a carboy or BB is not going to end well.

Actually I think he is. :mug: Better bottles are only rated to 140F, but glass (preheated) and the plastic buckets can handle near-boiling temperatures just fine (from what I've been reading.)
 
I concur on the buckets (some people use them to boil wort in) but I will leave it to someone braver than myself to preheat a carboy and then drain near-boiling liquid into it. The mere thought of a glass carboy cracking/shattering and flooding the area with 200F liquid scares me.....a lot! Why even take the chance?
 
I use the 6 gallon round Winpaks. I will whirlpool and let cool to 190F, use a ball valve in the kettle to drain to the Winpak, pitch the next day, ferment, cold crash, and rack to keg. Works great for me.
 
I got straight to my fermenting bucket and then chill in my freezer over-night or slightly longer. Most of the time its down to pitching temps in around 6-8 hours.
 
For those of you who no-chill, what are you using for containers?

I simply put the lid on my kettle and let chill over the following 10 - 20 hours, then pitch yeast in the kettle and ferment.....

Using a winpak or a sealed plastic vessel that you heat the interior, including the top is likely far more sanitary and can hold the wort for days or months, but I pitch heavily and healthy once down to temps without issues. I typically make beer that is kept cold after fermentation and consumed "fresh". This practice might not be a good idea if you are looking to cellar for months and months.

It's a game of numbers....
 
I'm assuming you keep the keg pressurized, right? Else you'd create a vacuum as it cools and it would suck in air and you'd no longer have a sterile environment in the keg.

I did no-chill in a corny once too - I kept it under pressure as it cooled off, and it worked well. It's definitely a good option for no-chill.
No problems without adding pressure. On another forum, someone has been using cronies for no chill for a couple years successfully. He only pressurized the first couple, been fine without.
 
No problems without adding pressure. On another forum, someone has been using cronies for no chill for a couple years successfully. He only pressurized the first couple, been fine without.

Like robanna mentioned a few posts back, I think people are talking about 2 different things when it comes to no-chill or 'slow chill'.
How long are you waiting to pitch yeast? If it's the next day not pressurizing should be fine (you are probably sucking in bad bugs but pitching your yeast before they have time to take hold). If you are holding onto the wort for a week or more like I do quite often, I can't believe you'd be fine by not pressurizing. You'll create a vacuum which will pull in unclean air and after a week you'd be on the way to brewing a wild yeast brew.
 
Like robanna mentioned a few posts back, I think people are talking about 2 different things when it comes to no-chill or 'slow chill'.
How long are you waiting to pitch yeast? If it's the next day not pressurizing should be fine (you are probably sucking in bad bugs but pitching your yeast before they have time to take hold). If you are holding onto the wort for a week or more like I do quite often, I can't believe you'd be fine by not pressurizing. You'll create a vacuum which will pull in unclean air and after a week you'd be on the way to brewing a wild yeast brew.
I see no difference between no chill or slow chill. Neither uses chiller equipment or methods, both are allowed to chill naturally(?) having said that, I pitch within 24 hrs. I am not sure I am sucking in any bugs (I aint no scientist)
 
Keith,
Can you please post a link for each of these where one can get that type of "cube"

1. The rectangular and round Winpacks from US Plastics
2. The blue Aquatainer from Walmart
3. A cube-shaped container that can be dumped out of
4. A cube-shaped container that has a spigot

ArcLight,

I'm don't want to sound like a butt, but I don't have the links onhand. Todd posted links to 3 of the options. I'd recommend that you go to the "Exploring No Chill" thread - the link I included in my original post. Dr_Deathweed, the OP of that thread, eventually went back and edited his initial posting to include some links as well. Particularly useful is a link to a Hop Schedule modification that, I believe, was designed by "The Pol".

You might search for "container", jerrycan, cube, or a few other container-like words within that thread. If you feel up to it, I would recommend reading thru the entire thread. About 2/3 way thru, I wished that I had saved some of the links given therein. So - save a link to interesting posts as you read.

Hope that helps,
Keith
 
>>Like robanna mentioned a few posts back, I think people are talking about 2 different things when it comes to no-chill or 'slow chill'.

I think they are exactly the same. Its 2 terms for the same thing.
In Australia, where this is common, they call it No Chill, not Slow Chill.
The idea is you pump the hot wort into a cube, squeeze out the extra air, and let it sit until ready to use, which is usually the next day. But you can go longer, as in Australia they sell wort that has been prepared this way for use by brewers.

If you want to not use your wort right away, that doesn't change the meaning of No Chill, since it wasn't cooled after flame out.
 
Slow Chill and No Chill are not the exact same. (maybe I'm not useing the terms 100% correct but there needs to be known that there is a difference) I had read somewhere that Slow Chill is to be pitch as soon as it's cool (within the next few days); No Chill is intended to be stored and pitch at some point it the unknown future (days, weeks, months). The early post in this tread were mixing the two and I was just trying to clear up a difference.

I slow chill. My process is, let the wort cool in the kettle while I clean up a bit and pour it into the plastic bucket fermentor after about 20-40 minutes after flameout (maybe 140°), top-off, and set the lid on loosely. The lid on my bucket does not even seal tight when it is fully on. I pitch the next morning when it's cool. I've never had a problem.

Try that with No Chill that you are planning on pitching the yeast in 3 months and I can guarantee that your wort will be toast if not deadly. For that you need a tightly sealed container able to handle near boiling temps so the wort can be put it in to help sterilize the container.

I can see a difference in the container needed between those two methods. You could use a 'cube' to slow chill but it's not necessary. It is absolutely necessary for No Chill to have a container that you 1) can put near boil wort into 2) handle the suck-back 3) will be air tight. A Slow Chill container doesn't really 'need' to have any of those qualities.

We need to differentiate between a contain intended to store the wort vs letting the wort cool on it's own before picthing the yeast.
 
The Aussies developed no chill after years of water restrictions. All the research I have done on no chill, I have never heard of "slow" chill even if you pitch the next day. I always pitch within 24 hrs. I no chill!
 
I'd really like this to be a thread to which people looking to try no-chill can come to for quick information and recommendations on particular containers to use.

Thank you,
Keith

Back to the OP, I think it does matter how long you plan to store the wort before pitching. If you just want to try letting the wort cool on it's own and pitch when it's cool then you can do that in the kettle. I personally put it into a plastic bucket fermentor and in the summer time I put that into a swamp cooler where it'll stay during fermenting. I don't have experience with other containers.
 
Looks like I'm wrong about Slow Chill vs No Chill. I read it on another site and it's the only place I have read Slow Chill used that way but it somehow stuck with me. Most other places I'm seeing slow chill used it is putting the kettle into a cold bath or ice water but not worrying about getting it down to pitching temp in a real hurry but maybe taking several hours vs No Chill which would take several MORE hours. Anyways....Sorry for any confusion I might have caused.
 
+1 I do agree that if you plan to store the wort for more than a few days, you need to select your storage vessel carefully.
 
Regardless of what you call it, if you allow air to get sucked into your container, you are asking for major trouble if you want to keep the wort stored for weeks. A day or maybe 2 will probably be fine. This is the point I was trying to make, if you want store the wort long term, use a sealed Winpak or pressurized corny. If you just want to wait until the next day to pitch your yeast, do what you want. Long term storage is not the same thing as pitching yeast in 24 hours.

EDIT: I missed djt17's last post, who kinda said what I said already :>)
 
bigljd said:
Regardless of what you call it, if you allow air to get sucked into your container, you are asking for major trouble if you want to keep the wort stored for weeks. A day or maybe 2 will probably be fine. This is the point I was trying to make, if you want store the wort long term, use a sealed Winpak or pressurized corny. If you just want to wait until the next day to pitch your yeast, do what you want. Long term storage is not the same thing as pitching yeast in 24 hours.

EDIT: I missed djt17's last post, who kinda said what I said already :>)

Totally. Slow chill & no chill are primarily the same, within reason. But all we're talking about here is basically avoiding quick-cooling equipment and the cost/ work involved. Seems like we're all getting good result with both. I'm looking forward to my next brew wherein I'll "slow-chill" in a corny, ice bath, which seems cool. I think I'll be able to put a lil gas on it & push out the cold break as well. Resulting in even clearer beer! I'm just guessing here. YMMV. Behold! The art and craft of homebrewing!!
To Each Their Own!!!! Hahahahahahahahaaghhh!
 
FYI: the aquatainer does have a spigot, it's just screwed into the inside of the cap when you buy it. Works very well if you lay the container on the side and let it cool. When you go to drain it, all the crud will have settled into the bottom and the spigot is an inch or so higher so you don't get any crud in the fermenter (it leaves @ .75 gallon, so you have account for that in your volumes but you can always strain it through a coffee filter and salvage a quart of wort to make a starter with).

I have wrapped a plastic sandwich bag sprayed with starsan around the spigot in the pic below, but you get the idea.

6270659028_1d56a96e33.jpg
I purchased one of these from the Academy Sports that's walking distance from the house since my Walmart doesn't carry them. So, I guess I will drain the hot wort into this Aquatainer at flameout, being careful not to splash it around. I'll set up the lid so that the spigot is on the outside. It doesn't squeeze easily - but maybe it does when it has hot wort in it. After tightening the lids, I'll turn it about to sanitize all interior surfaces with the hot wort. Then I'll lie it on its side on a table to cool overnight.

I guess, the next day, I'll spray sanitizer all around the intake cap and open it slowly to release the vacuum. I'll spray out the spigot and drain the wort into the Better Bottle. It's OK to let it splash about now in order to oxygenate it. The rest is routine.

Thanks,
Keith
 
I purchased one of these from the Academy Sports that's walking distance from the house since my Walmart doesn't carry them. So, I guess I will drain the hot wort into this Aquatainer at flameout, being careful not to splash it around. I'll set up the lid so that the spigot is on the outside. It doesn't squeeze easily - but maybe it does when it has hot wort in it. After tightening the lids, I'll turn it about to sanitize all interior surfaces with the hot wort. Then I'll lie it on its side on a table to cool overnight.

I guess, the next day, I'll spray sanitizer all around the intake cap and open it slowly to release the vacuum. I'll spray out the spigot and drain the wort into the Better Bottle. It's OK to let it splash about now in order to oxygenate it. The rest is routine.

Thanks,
Keith

Have you thought of turning the aquatainer upright and popping a blowoff hose into it?
 
The only problem with fermenting in the Aquatainer (or any container that you use for the no-chill process) is that you NEED to oxygenate the wort before pitching your yeast, either mechanically or with an infusion system. Draining it into a fermentor (with lots of splashing) accomplishes the necessary aeration.
 
Just posted on the no chill thread, but I went by WinCo and found a 5 gallon HDPE with a screw top. dumped 212 degree water in there as a test and it had no problems. Other than trying to squeeze out all the air. I pushed out some water that got on my leg. Needless to say there was some language involved.
 
Have you thought of turning the aquatainer upright and popping a blowoff hose into it?

Yes, I have. I admit that it's the childishness in me, but I still like to be able to see what's going on in the fermenter. I spent money on a couple ported 6 gal Better Bottles, so I want to use them.

I had considered setting the aquatainer on its side - spigot on lower corner, vent opening on upper corner - and attaching a blow-off tube to the vent opening. I think the most of the trub would settle below the level of the spigot this way.

The container seems pretty opaque, so I'm thinking that it would be difficult to tell if it's really clean. True, the Better Bottles have a narrow neck (not as narrow as the glass carboys), but you can tell if they're clean.

thughes said:
The only problem with fermenting in the Aquatainer (or any container that you use for the no-chill process) is that you NEED to oxygenate the wort before pitching your yeast, either mechanically or with an infusion system. Draining it into a fermentor (with lots of splashing) accomplishes the necessary aeration.

I agree. I had figured that I would drain the wort from the aquatainer into the Better Bottle by allowing it to splash into the fermenter.

Thanks,
Keith
 
I too use the blue aquatainer.I found when draining into my carboy from the spigot that there is a fair bit of splashing onto the floor etc.
I fixed that by putting a large funnel into the carboy and bringing it up as close to the spigot as possible.
I also keep a sanitized hop sack handy that I can put over the spigot near the end of the draining. If there should be more trub than expected the sack will filter most of the solids out.
Please everyone.Take your soigot apart and sanitize after everybrew.What a screw up I had!!
 

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