pH/RO water adj. brewday pics

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RCCOLA

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I've been following this forum for awhile and just wanted to thank TH, AJ, and Martin B. You guys have really helped me to get my head around my water mods. Once again--thanks guys!
Here are my results from yesterday's brew. I used Bru'n water calculator and EZ water calculator to compare it to.

7° SRM/ 7 gallon batch/
RO water: 4.5gallons mash
4.5 gallons sparge. 2 sparges @ 2.25gal/ea.

Grain bill:
48% 6 lb American Two-row Pale
32% 4lb Wheat Malt
8% 1 lb Caravienne Malt - 22L
8% 1 lb Flaked Oats
4% 8oz Honey Malt

I wanted a malty profile, so I used
Mash: 2g CaCl, 1g CaSO4
Sparge: 1.6g CaCl, .8 CaSO4--> 1/2 of each of these were added to the 2 sparge volumes.

This nets:
Ca: 42 (after pickling lime addition it went to 56)
Cl: 55
SO4: 30
Estimated pH: 5.2(Bru'n Water calc) 5.46(EZ Water)
Actual: 5.3 before lime addition

The first thing I did was calibrate my meter. First at 7pH then at 4pH. It did not need adjustment--had held it from 2 weeks ago.

I added my strike water to the tun and then added my mash ions to it, then stirred in the grain. I took a sample and jockeyed it between 2 plates to cool it to room temp. It yielded a mash pH of 5.3 Disregard the 5.5 reading--it's the pH of the storage solution

So, I added .5g of pickling lime (Ca(OH)2)
100_0901.jpg
which raises pH

This brought my pH up to 5.4.
54-1.jpg
If I had used baking soda, the calculators predict that it would have taken 2-3 times that amount to have the same effect

After I added my first sparge volume, I stirred in .8g CaCl and .4 CaSO4 and then checked pH.

It read 5.8.

58.jpg
I wanted it at 5.6 so I added 1tsp of 10% phosphoric acid which dropped it to 5.4
54.jpg


Ranoff the 1st sparge volume, added the second along with .8g CaCl and .4 CaSO4, and checked pH at 5.6
56.jpg


Seemed good to me and I left it alone. Here's the 5.6 reading on one of my CPR test strips
pHstrip.jpg
Looks like 4.6 to me. 5.6 on its scale is medium brown.

Boil pH ended up at 5.2
52.jpg
100_0911.jpg
That's an 8 gallon boil in an 8 gallon pot BTW. Fermcap FTW.



All in all, a good brewday. My $40 meter (Hanna HI98107) performed flawlessly and my additions worked pretty close to as predicted. 6.25gals chilled to 64F and tucked away in my wine fridge set at 65F.
100_0919.jpg
 
So, I added .5g of pickling lime (Ca(OH)2) which adds bicarbonate and raises pH

It doesn't actually add any bicarbonate. That's the beauty of it. Just beneficial calcium and hydroxyl ions (which raise the pH).


After I added my first sparge volume, I stirred in .8g CaCl and .4 CaSO4 and then checked pH.

Adding these salts would have no effect on water pH if they were really CaCl and CaSO4. But a lot of "calcium chloride" contains some calcium hydroxide and so will raise the pH slightly.

Unless you want more of these salts in the boil for some reason there is little point in adding them to the sparge water.

I wanted it at 5.6 so I added 1tsp of 10% phosphoric acid which dropped it to 5.4

Just do this in the future. Note, however, that it is very unlikely that you need to treat the sparge water. RO/DI water has no alkalinity to speak of and will not pull runoff pH high unless you sparge way past where you should.

Here's the 5.6 reading on one of my CPR test strips
pHstrip.jpg
Looks like 4.6 to me. 5.6 on its scale is medium brown.

Hope readers will see and believe.

Boil pH ended up at 5.2

Excellent.
 
It doesn't actually add any bicarbonate. That's the beauty of it. Just beneficial calcium and hydroxyl ions (which raise the pH).


The hydroxyl does have an equivalency in terms of alkalinity which I have converted to an equivalent 'bicarbonate' concentration in the program. Sorry for suggesting that pickling lime actually adds bicarbonate to the water.


Unless you want more of these salts in the boil for some reason there is little point in adding them to the sparge water.


Sparge water mineral additions are certainly necessary if a desired ion concentration is wanted in the kettled wort. The mineral additions can be added to either the sparge water or directly to the kettle.
 
Adding these salts would have no effect on water pH if they were really CaCl and CaSO4. But a lot of "calcium chloride" contains some calcium hydroxide and so will raise the pH slightly.
.
Is it just in the mash that these salts will drop pH?
 
Is it just in the mash that these salts will drop pH?

That is correct. The calcium and magnesium react with the phytins in the malt to create an acid that actually does the pH reduction. That does not apply in the sparge water or kettle. To acidify in those instances, you have to add an actual acid like phosphoric or lactic.
 
That is correct. The calcium and magnesium react with the phytins in the malt to create an acid that actually does the pH reduction. That does not apply in the sparge water or kettle. To acidify in those instances, you have to add an actual acid like phosphoric or lactic.

Wow. You would think in reading countless threads and articles on brewing water, that I would have caught that one.:eek:

Once, again, thank you guys. I always learn something new over here.
 
Here's another brewday I did awhile back with a dark beer. It shows just how far dark malts push down pH. The next time I do a beer with a bunch of dark grains, they will be steeped separately from the mash so I don't have to mess with pH so much.

Fuller’s London Porter clone
(7 gallons/ all-grain)
OG = 1.052
SRM = 32

Ingredients
9 lbs. pale ale malt 3.5L
1.0 lb. 5ozs. crystal malt (75 °L)
1.5 lbs. brown malt 65L
1 lb. chocolate malt 450L
1 lb. flaked barley 2L

RO water/ 5gal mash/ 5gal sparge

Calcium Chloride (CaCl: .9g mash/.8g boil)

Gypsum (CaSO4: .8g mash/.7g boil)

Pickling Lime (Ca(OH)2): 2.2g mash. Bru'n water estimated that I needed 3.8g to raise my pH to 5.4, but it only took 2.2. If I had used baking soda, it estimated 6.3g, but it looks more like 5g would have done it.

EZ water said I would need 6.3g of baking soda to reach pH 5.4

For a total of:
Ca: 23 (84 after adding Pickling Lime)
SO4: 23
Cl: 27

Estimated pH:
Bru'n water: 5.2--Both with and without my 2.2g of pickling lime
EZ water: 5.19
Actual: 5.2 before adding pickling lime, 5.4 after adding it.

First, I calibrated my meter at pH 7. Added a little pH7 buffer to the cap and it checked OK
LP7.jpg


Dumped/rinsed the cap with D/I water and added pH4 buffer solution. It read 4.1, so I adjusted it to 4
LPCalScrew.jpg
3LP4Calibrate.jpg

Added my water/grain/salts to the tun and checked pH at 5.2
4LPDoughin52.jpg


Too low, I wanted it higher so I added 1.2g pickling lime CaOH2--AKA Calcium Hydroxide to raise the pH to 5.4
5LP1stLime54.jpg
11PicklingLime.jpg


Checked it again ~ 5 mins later and it had fallen to 5.3
6LPb42ndlime53.jpg

So, I added 1g more pickling lime and got it back up to 5.4
7LPafter2ndlime54.jpg


After an hour, drained the tun, added 5 gals sparge water and checked pH at 5.6
8LP56sparge.jpg
This was fine and I left it alone & ranoff the sparge and started the boil, which checked at 5.2
9LP52boil.jpg
which is a good boil pH according to AJ.
Ended up with 6.5gals in the fermenter
10LPfermenter.jpg
 
I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Porter flavor. I find that the slightly elevated pH makes the beer rounder and less sharp.

I see that you ferment in a polyethylene container. Be sure to keg or bottle ASAP after the primary ferment to reduce oxygen contact via the more permeable container walls.
 
Polyethylene is far more gas permeable than glass or steel. Its not really a big deal, just recognize that you would want to move the beer out of that container ASAP in order to reduce the potential for oxidation. Oxidation is a long-developing hazard that might not be noticeable unless the beer is stored a long time. Drink quick and oxidation is a non-issue.
 
I usually leave the beer for a month, and haven't noticed any card board taste.

"Cardboard" taste is severe oxidation. Usually, lower amounts of oxidation would be more like a "sherry" taste or even an astringency on the sides of the tongue in early stages.

If you've ever had sherry or madeira, that's what a darker beer with some oxidation tastes like. It's almost like brandy in taste, if that makes sense. (In fact, oxidized wine is said to have "madeiriized").
 
I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Porter flavor. I find that the slightly elevated pH makes the beer rounder and less sharp.

I see that you ferment in a polyethylene container. Be sure to keg or bottle ASAP after the primary ferment to reduce oxygen contact via the more permeable container walls.

It was very nice, malty and chocolatey. I had problems with a twang in my darker beers which is what led me to water modification. No twang in this one.
I don't know what the pH reading was on my former, problem beers so I can't say if a low pH was the problem or not. Either way, it's fixed now.

I usually primary from 7 days to 2 weeks and then either bottle or rack to a glass secondary for lagers

ETA: Just cracked open the last of a year old APA. It had lost its hop aroma but still retained its flavor. No oxidized flavors noted.
 
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