Why do you Clone?

I was just interested in the different motivations people had for cloning commercial beers. As home brewers we can be as creative as we want, so why mimic something that already exists?

In the past I've cloned b/c I thought I could make cheaper than buying it at the store. This was certainly the case if you just account for ingredients, but if you factor in the cost of equipment I think the break even point for me was around 50-60 gallons, and even then the savings were slight. Ultimately, I used those savings to justify more equipment, so I may have never actually broke even.

Currently, If I do a clone it's to get my bearings before crafting my own recipe. I make the clone b/c I know it will get me close to where I want to be and in brewing it I learn where I can make tweaks and improvements to make it my own.

For me it's usually because it's a beer I can't get locally so it's either one I tried somewhere that I really liked, or one that I've heard really good things about. Also it's kind of cool to test your skills as a brewer to see how close to the original you can get.

microbusbrewery said:

For me it's usually because it's a beer I can't get locally so it's either one I tried somewhere that I really liked, or one that I've heard really good things about. Also it's kind of cool to test your skills as a brewer to see how close to the original you can get.

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This is the main reason that I will clone. I will brew it up and the. Do a side by side with the original to see how I did.

I do it to see if I can as well as to enjoy beers as close to the original as possible but paying lots less for it. I rarely hit it very close and always come out with an enjoyable beer.
I only make clones about 1/3 the time.

I clone less and less but when I started brewing, I did it to learn with good known recipes.
I still clone when I think that some beers have been outstanding and very close if not identical to the original. I live in Ireland and although we can find a decent selection of beer, there is always that one that you want and can't find then cloning is the only option.

microbusbrewery said:

For me it's usually because it's a beer I can't get locally so it's either one I tried somewhere that I really liked, or one that I've heard really good things about. Also it's kind of cool to test your skills as a brewer to see how close to the original you can get.

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That's my main reason right there. The main beer I brew a clone of is Pliny, since there's no Pliny in MN unless you order it online.
Another reason is to test my brewing skills. I like to take a known clone of a beer I know well, and brew it. Usually it takes a few brews to get it tweaked to my system and have it come out like the original. I get a lot of satisfaction from being able to do that.

I like the challenge of trying to brew something that is a known good product. I also find that it helps me locate areas in my process that need refinement or a complete redo. From there, I can take a clone and turn it into something unique. English grain/yeast on an APA, etc. Roughly 30% of my brews are clones.

Most of the beers I clone are seasonals that I don't want to wait to be released. Most of the time I just want to drink it for less $$. It's also a great way to test your brewing skills.

I'm about to brew my first all grain batch and am doing a Pliny clone. My first batch ever was a clone of Red Chair NWPA by Deschutes. I think it is good to have something that works to be able to take some of the pressure off your first time doing something new. Probably won't clone anything again though after that. I enjoy my own concoctions.

microbusbrewery said:

For me it's usually because it's a beer I can't get locally so it's either one I tried somewhere that I really liked, or one that I've heard really good things about. Also it's kind of cool to test your skills as a brewer to see how close to the original you can get.

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Yep, this is a great explanation. I plan to give Chimay Grande reserve a shot before too long. I'm hoping I can brew something close enough to be good.

Personally, I have never brewed a clone. I have however brewed things that tasted a lot like other beers I liked. I wasn't trying to make an exact replica, but something similar with a few tweaks. When the results came out pretty much bang on with the way I thought it should taste in my head, I figured that was a pretty good test of my skills as well. I definitely love having the freedom to create whatever beer I think my tastebuds will be happy with though.

I do clones because I would rather spend the time and effort to brew something that I at least have a hint of what it should taste like instead of just throwing a bunch of ingredients together and hoping for the best.

Maybe once I am more experienced I will try my own recipe, but to be honest there are about a dozen beers that I truly like and I'd rather stick with those than anything.

The two main reasons i clone certain beers are: 1) I don't want to pay 4 bucks a glass at a bar for a beer that I really like.
and 2) Its a challenge to see if I can recreate the recipe that they made.

I will make note that i don't clone a lot only the beers that i extremely like.

I just brewed a Pliny the Elder clone. I did so, as a beginner, because I like the beer, it is not readily available to me, and brewing beers I like helps me to get a handle on which ingredients and techniques impart the characteristics I like.

I think it's all been summed up: usually cheaper, helps test my skills against a commercial quality product and many beers I can't get/incredibly hard to find can be had in volume by producing it myself. You can also take a good commercial beer and put your own take on it, e.g. dry hop, oak age, sour, make funky, add vanilla or other spices, etc.

The cost factor can be a big reason all by itself. When a beer sells for $10-15 for a 750ml and you can brew a clone reasonably close for $30-50 for five gallons you're spending $30-50 for $250-375 of beer. That alone can eat away some of the costs of your equipment. Even a normal beer can run $5/pint at a bar. I can make similar beers for $20-30 for all ingredients; at bar prices that's $200 of beer (40 pints in 5 gallons at $5). While it's arguable that homebrewing "saves" money after you factor in all the equipment, ingredients and time at store prices for regular beers when you pay bar prices or buy expensive beers it's harder to make that argument.

I haven't brewed a clone yet but there are a few beers that I would like to see if I could recreate. It would also be a cool way to tweak some of my favorite beers.

I might brew clones <5% of the time. If I'm going to do it, it's most likely going to be a beer I can't regularly get. Pliny is the classic example there.

Even then, I'm not religious about the clones when I do make them, so if I have to (or want to) make an ingredient substitution, I don't lose sleep over it.

Disintegr8or said:

I do clones because I would rather spend the time and effort to brew something that I at least have a hint of what it should taste like instead of just throwing a bunch of ingredients together and hoping for the best.

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This was it for me. I started brewing without a super developed palate and especially any knowledge of ingredients and their effects on the final product. I know I liked Gaelic Ale last time I had it, and would like something like that around. Into the shopping cart go two batches of clone ingredients from BMW. Bee Cave Haus Pale Ale? I'm not sure what that, 2-row, Vienna, Crystal 10 or Cascade hops taste like. Lots of people like it, but will I? I found I do, but it was hoppier than I thought. I might not have liked it.

microbusbrewery said:

For me it's usually because it's a beer I can't get locally so it's either one I tried somewhere that I really liked, or one that I've heard really good things about. Also it's kind of cool to test your skills as a brewer to see how close to the original you can get.

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Yep, me too. I don't make many clones, but when I do it's to see if I can. If I can, that's cool. Then I usually tweak it to make it more to my taste.

I've only made 3 clones ever and it has been because I was testing my tasting ability to try and break down a beer and learn about ingredients in my pursuit of creating better recipes. 2 were huge successes and one was complete failure but was still a great beer, I am now tweaking that one for a second attempt.

I clone out of pride. "Can I brew Bell's Two Hearted or Southern Tier's Pumking or Lagunitas Doppel Weizen just as good as them?"

So far, my Two Hearted recipes is almost perfect.

I clone to make my beer snob friends say "Damn, that's as good, if not, better than XXXXX."

To know I can make my favorite beers, that are produced in million dollar breweries, in my basement on $35 worth of ingredients and $100 worth of equipment is pretty damn cool.

I thought it was dumb at first.But really its all the above.You want to see how close or how better yours is .It could be cheaper and better or just simialar but better or worse. I have a problem of not using the exact ingredients,which turns them into completly different beers-so i guees many of mine are clone-like experiments.You never know one grain may make it way better.

Side by sides are fun too.Plus its good experience for learning tastes/ingredience.
My guess is if i brewed something like Pliney the elder,mine would be differnt,better?Maybe.Maybe not?

Simple - because I cannot buy the best damn commercial beer I've ever had.

Lord, please let me move back to the Czech Republic.

I don't brew clones but I love looking for clone recipes and all the work others have done. It is a huge help for making better recipes when you can search out beers you like and nail down ingredients to put into your own recipe.

I'm just getting started, and following clone recipes is a good way to learn how various ingredients/techniques/etc can produce certain effects and flavors.

Once I get more experience, I'll start creating my own recipes.

evandena said:

I'm just getting started, and following clone recipes is a good way to learn how various ingredients/techniques/etc can produce certain effects and flavors.

Once I get more experience, I'll start creating my own recipes.

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Although I didn't recognize it at first, in retrospect trying to clone commercial beers has helped my identify gaps in my knowledge and flaws in my process.

microbusbrewery said:

For me it's usually because it's a beer I can't get locally so it's either one I tried somewhere that I really liked, or one that I've heard really good things about. Also it's kind of cool to test your skills as a brewer to see how close to the original you can get.

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Yes. This describes my attitude toward cloning perfectly. I drink something, I like it enough then I try to find a recipe and replicate it. I'm not to the point (and I may never get there) when I try to concoct my own beer recipes from scratch. Got a copy of Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beers one Christmas. Good book, but after I went through it, I gave it to my son, who got me into this pastime. Not really interested in doing that.

I've never tried a clone recipe but I do look them up for ideas or use them as a base for my recipes. I think it's fun to take a popular IPA clone and make a belgian out of it, or mash a heavy body clone at a really low temperature to make a dry version. There are certain beers I can't get locally. I would consider a clone recipe for one of those, but I may still add a twist to it. I do most of the cooking in the family and my wife know I always deviate from the recipe. Also, I know the way I am. If I really try to clone a beer, I would obsess about why mine didn't come out exactly like the original, and I don't want to brew 7 batches of the same recipe to figure it out, which I probably would do. Instead, I stick to making my own recipes or I will get a unique kit if it sounds interesting enough to try.

because if you didn't, you would never have this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8280066730307092994
and that's a world i just don't want to live in

spearko520 said:

because if you didn't, you would never have this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8280066730307092994
and that's a world i just don't want to live in

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Omg that's too funny!

Bear419 said:

I was just interested in the different motivations people had for cloning commercial beers. As home brewers we can be as creative as we want, so why mimic something that already exists?

In the past I've cloned b/c I thought I could make cheaper than buying it at the store. This was certainly the case if you just account for ingredients, but if you factor in the cost of equipment I think the break even point for me was around 50-60 gallons, and even then the savings were slight. Ultimately, I used those savings to justify more equipment, so I may have never actually broke even.

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How are you amortizing the cost of equipment? After a while, the cost per brew of your equipment is pretty low, unless you've spend a huge amount of money.

I for one have no interest in clones. I've done it once, for a party at my in-laws. My brother-in-law will only drink Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, but still requested I make some. I decided to mimic SNPA just for the fun of it. He couldn't tell the difference. Never done it since.

In principle, i am against cloning because i am against near misses.

As a rule, if i want something and can't have it, i replace it with something entirely different. For example, if i want a really hot thai curry but there's just no way of getting one for whatever reason, I might have an egg salad sandwich instead - i like those too.

On the other hand, I really like Rogue Hazelnut Brown. I'd sure like to have it on tap, but it's just too expensive. And hey, maybe i can improve on the recipe (as far as my own tastes are concerned). So i start with a clone recipe, and go from there to make it my own.

microbusbrewery said:

For me it's usually because it's a beer I can't get locally so it's either one I tried somewhere that I really liked, or one that I've heard really good things about. Also it's kind of cool to test your skills as a brewer to see how close to the original you can get.

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I travel a lot and drink a serious amount of local brews. I have also been fortunate enough to live in many places and unfortunately the beers I love from my travels and different living situations are regionally distributed. Couple that with the fact that I currently live in the worst craft brew state in the country, yes worse than Utah.....West Virginia I clone beers. Also, I am relatively new to brewing, so replicating beers(or trying to) I already love seems like a make sense thing as I translate my beer taste to beer brewing skills.

I usually do it out of availablily and or cost. I really like higher end Belgian Abbey beers but the pricetag kills me. If I can brew something very similar for 1/4 to 1/3 the cost then I'm happy. About 2/3 of my brews are Belgians.

beerloaf

spearko520 said:

because if you didn't, you would never have this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8280066730307092994
and that's a world i just don't want to live in

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Yeah, that's why I clone, as well. You said it perfectly.

I clone for two reasons:
1) I like the beers that I clone (Stella, Heinekin, Becks and Corona) with a little note that the locally created versions of these now tast like soap on the odd ocassion that I drink one.
2) I am too terrified of making something that is vile and I have to throw away

I'm actually mashing my first attempt at cloning right now. Three Floyds Robert the Bruce. I don't expect it to be exact, but somewhat close. Love that beer and I needed to do something different than an IPA for a change of pace. I don't plan on doing a lot of other clones. Maybe none. This one just spoke to me, as I was finishing off a six pack of it. It said, "Brew me." So, I'm giving it a shot. I think it's going to be nice, whether it's close or not. If it does end up really close I'll post in to the database.

I don't clone, but I like to look at clone recipes for reference and inspiration.

I just want to try and make a style that I like, and will try to clone one first to get the feel and then try to make it my own.

Cloning gives you a measurement of your brewing skill. If all of your clones suck you obviously need to change a part of your process.