Electric Brewing - Scorched Wort Issues

We are running an electric brew kettle - converted keg with a 3kW hot water cylinder (Kwikot geyser element) heater.

This weekend at a beer festival a much more experienced brewer commented that all our beers have a smoky taste / flavour and he thinks it has to do with the elements scorching the wort.

He says he also picks it up in the beers of one of our local brewers who recently went commercial.

So my questions are:

What is the maximum Watt / Square inch output to use in an electric brew kettle?

What is the recommended Watt / Square inch config?

If we decide to stick with the setup as we have it now, which types of beer should we avoid brewing, i.e. what will be the least affected by the element?

Thanks
Schalk

The question is, do you detect a smokey flavor? I have never experienced scorching even using hwd elements to boil a very light cream ale.

Maybe it was his imagination.

Seriously though, if you are concerned about it then switch to a lwd or ulwd element.

Did he know you used the element before he tasted them? If so, I think he was imagining it most likely.

I'd do some blind tests with various friends and stuff. Maybe pour two of the same beer. Have them try the first one, ask for their thoughts. Then say you have a different beer and that you're picking up a burnt flavor, see if they catch it. If so, might be just imagination when they're actively looking for it.

Think I will try the blind tasting...

The beer he commented on had a LOAD of hops in and I think it may have been due to all the hop matter in the kettle.
I have never really picked up a smokey note before....

Guess We will make a fairly light beer next and see if we pick up any smokey / cigarette flavours...

I've had scorching issues with 4000w hwd elements. The beer was straight up burnt, tasting like burnt porridge. I have a camco 5500w ulwd element now and haven't been able to detect any scorching flavors.

I can't comment on the scorching issue... but I do know that my palate changes when I'm outside and it's cold out. For instance, for me at least, coffee starts tasting slightly disgusting. So it's possible he's picking up different things because of the environment he's tasting it in.

@stamandster That sounds like a very valid point...

stamandster said:

I can't comment on the scorching issue... but I do know that my palate changes when I'm outside and it's cold out. For instance, for me at least, coffee starts tasting slightly disgusting. So it's possible he's picking up different things because of the environment he's tasting it in.

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Interesting. I would add that I look forward to winter for the cool crisp air with that smokey note from everyone's fireplace.

My point is that perhaps he was tasting what he was smelling. Taste and smell are inextricably linked.

for what it's worth: scorched/burnt wort does not have a flavor I would classify as "smokey" at all. It just tastes burnt. Like blackened marshmallows.

FWIW the so called "expert" may not know anymore than you. He also may very well be an ass who has equipment envy.

Also, keep in mind that "smokey" is a phenol that can be generated by yeast.

I would also agree with the above poster that "smokey" and "burnt" are two distinct flavors/aromas

Have you ever dry fired your element. I did mine last weekend. Had to scrub the heck out of it to get the burnt taste off.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Home Brew Talk

Yikes... Just had a beer from a brewery that runs elements at more than double or even triple our system's Watt density.... It is a hoppy beer and was in the fridge for almost 5 months. The hop flavour faded... Now it tastes like someone ditched cigarette butts in the beer. WOW.... What a terrible taste.
Our beer is fine. Nowhere near this level of burnt....

Walker said:

for what it's worth: scorched/burnt wort does not have a flavor I would classify as "smokey" at all. It just tastes burnt. Like blackened marshmallows.

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This, is the answer.. I've scorched two batches with my 2k elements - the flavor is a putrid, mouth puckering burnt taste/aftertaste. Very different from a "smokey" flavor. Even a hearty stout could not conceal the scorched flavor. I sadly dumped both batches.

My issue was in not thouroughly cleaning the elements after use - the protein would build up and after a few batches it started burning. Now I scrub the element really well after a batch and no more scorching!

Shockerengr said:

Also, keep in mind that "smokey" is a phenol that can be generated by yeast.

I would also agree with the above poster that "smokey" and "burnt" are two distinct flavors/aromas

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I have had this effect, so I'd go with this explanation.

I've also burnt/scorched a batch with my element and agree that smoky doesn't describe it in the least. Possibly your batch was just in the very beginning stage of burning, therefore a tinge of smoke maybe. But a true scorched batch would be spit it out of your mouth badness.

+ 1 knapp.

Unfortunately, I just had this same problem which led me to a search that found this thread. I have made several great batches with my setup but the last brewday made some gross burned beers and I noticed after brewing that day that my element was covered with burned protein. :-(

CLEAN THE ELEMENTS AFTER EACH BREWDAY TO PREVENT THIS

It is essential to clean the elements after each batch. A PITA, but essential.

QUICK UPDATE:

I damaged one of our elements while cleaning them. The gunk burnt onto it was simply too bad so I replaced the element with a temporary hot water cylinder model.
In the meantime we have ordered proper lower heat density elements from a local element manufacturer - they should be ready in two weeks time.

Since our two heated vessels have the same basic design they can be interchanged as mash-lauter tun and boil kettle we realized the simplest way to keep the elements clean is to alternate the vessels. The low pH of the mashing process actually helps clean the elements.

A simple wipe with a cloth in warm water or a mild citric / peracetic acid solution yields elements as good as new after each brew day.

Hey, I was just searching around for brewers who had issues with scorching. I'm early on in the electric brewing, so basically I've got a 5000w heating element with no way to regular the wattage. I did a 90 minute boil several months back and forever will be wary of scorched wort. Until I get a way to ease up on the wattage, I keep my nose in close vicinity to the boil and frequently turn off the breaker. The 90 minute boil without easing the wattage created the foulest smelling wort I've ever smelt. I went ahead and chilled, pitched yeast, thinking, maybe it's ok, but in the end, I dumped the whole 5 gallons. It was disgusting, but I think unregulated wattage was the culprit.