Considering throwing a new porter on an old IPA patty... thoughts?

I just brewed a Wookey Jack Clone. It was pretty big, 1.07. Hopped and dry hopped heavily. I'd like to bottle it while I'm cooking up a porter and then toss the porter on that patty.

My question is if all that hop matter in the patty will have much effect on the porter. I don't mind hoppy porters, but my wife doesn't care for the hops so much and I'd like for her to enjoy this beer.

I know I could wash the yeast, but I find that to be sort of a pain and I'd like to brew tomorrow but that's not enough time to buy more yeast and make a good starter (I know, poor planning on my part).

Thoughts???

The hops won't affect the beer but, you will be severely over pitching onto some stressed out yeast.

spenghali said:

The hops won't affect the beer but, you will be severely over pitching onto some stressed out yeast.

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I wasn't planning on pitching onto the entire patty, however, I was concerned about the yeast being stressed... how big of a deal is that going to be going from a 1.07 beer to another 1.07 beer?

As for the hops, have most or all of the acids been soaked out of them at this point? Why not worry about it?

I miss read your OP and the fact that you dry hopped. You could possibly get some flavors from that, especially grassy/vegetal flavors you often get when you dry hop for too long.

spenghali said:

I miss read your OP and the fact that you dry hopped. You could possibly get some flavors from that, especially grassy/vegetal flavors you often get when you dry hop for too long.

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Hmmm. Seems it might be better to wait long enough to do a starter or just pitch two new viles...

Yeast that's fermented a high ABV/high IBU beer is usually one of the less desirable candidates when it comes to repitching. Probably better just to start with some fresh yeast and build a starter from that.

IMO, I think you could make it work, BUT you would want to wash/rinse the yeast first. You have a large population of stressed yeast mixed with hop matter that still contains plenty of flavor/aroma compounds. The good part is the yeast is still young and fresh, the bad part is that it's stressed and mixed with hop matter. The point of washing the yeast would be to primarily remove excessive hop matter that could alter the flavor of your porter. If you wash all of the yeast in a fairly thin slurry, let settle for 30 minutes, pour off the entire liquid portion leaving behind all that has settled, crash cool and decant; I bet you'll get a single, good sized pitchable yeast without needing to make a starter. My understanding is that mutations take longer than one generation to occur, or before they'll affect the outcome of the beer, so I believe you'll be safe in this respect. After this use though, I would not reuse the yeast. You would definitely want to do your best to aerate or oxygenate the wort very well prior to pitching, and maintain a good fermentation schedule that slowly raises the temperature towards the end of fermentation to the upper portion of the manufacturers suggested temperature range.

I have used washed yeast from an ~1.076 highly hopped, lightweight barleywine a few times. So far, I get the results I'd expect. The first time was shortly after washing, and it performed quickly and effectively, and the resulting Scottish export ale is good. More recently, after a 4.5 month hibernation in the refrigerator it took a while to revive (~40 hours) but eventually it did, and the resulting amber ale is great (still needs a week for perfect carbonation). Most recently, I've used this yeast on a robust porter with great results (at least it's good for being a young porter and still in the carboy); that one is hitting the keg tonight

stpug said:

IMO, I think you could make it work, BUT you would want to wash/rinse the yeast first. You have a large population of stressed yeast mixed with hop matter that still contains plenty of flavor/aroma compounds. The good part is the yeast is still young and fresh, the bad part is that it's stressed and mixed with hop matter. The point of washing the yeast would be to primarily remove excessive hop matter that could alter the flavor of your porter. If you wash all of the yeast in a fairly thin slurry, let settle for 30 minutes, pour off the entire liquid portion leaving behind all that has settled, crash cool and decant; I bet you'll get a single, good sized pitchable yeast without needing to make a starter. My understanding is that mutations take longer than one generation to occur, or before they'll affect the outcome of the beer, so I believe you'll be safe in this respect. After this use though, I would not reuse the yeast. You would definitely want to do your best to aerate or oxygenate the wort very well prior to pitching, and maintain a good fermentation schedule that slowly raises the temperature towards the end of fermentation to the upper portion of the manufacturers suggested temperature range.

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you know what, i'm going to try it. i'll bottle my wookey tonight, give the slurry a good washing, and use it tomorrow night in the porter. could you provide just a bit more detail on the procedure you recommend. this is what i imagine i would do:

-pour sanatized, cooled water into bucket, mix, let settle ~15-20 min, pour liquid off into flask
-put flask in fridge ~20-30 min, decant, keep remaining yeast patty in flask in fridge
-take cooled wort from porter next day, pour enough into flask to mix all the yeast in, pitch that into aerated wort

i've only ever washed yeast once so not a lot of experience to draw from. thanks!

I'm not saying it's good practice, but I've done it and it worked out fine. Milk stout into a partial yeast cake from a red ipa. It's delicious with no off flavors that I can detect.

edpelo said:

you know what, i'm going to try it. i'll bottle my wookey tonight, give the slurry a good washing, and use it tomorrow night in the porter. could you provide just a bit more detail on the procedure you recommend. this is what i imagine i would do:

-pour sanatized, cooled water into bucket, mix, let settle ~15-20 min, pour liquid off into flask
-put flask in fridge ~20-30 min, decant, keep remaining yeast patty in flask in fridge
-take cooled wort from porter next day, pour enough into flask to mix all the yeast in, pitch that into aerated wort

i've only ever washed yeast once so not a lot of experience to draw from. thanks!

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I imagine I'm too late at this point, but your process sounds very reasonable. The only part I might adjust would be where the 1 gallon slurry resides for the 20-30 minute settling period. I like the idea of a glass gallon sized container with a wide mouth (e.g. costco-sized pickle jar), but if you don't have something like that then the bucket will work fine.

stpug said:

I imagine I'm too late at this point, but your process sounds very reasonable. The only part I might adjust would be where the 1 gallon slurry resides for the 20-30 minute settling period. I like the idea of a glass gallon sized container with a wide mouth (e.g. costco-sized pickle jar), but if you don't have something like that then the bucket will work fine.

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it is too late, but it worked out well! i have a 2000ml flask that i filled, boiled, and cooled. I added that water to my fermentor, mixed it well with a plastic spoon so everything was suspended, then let it settle for about 15. it really separated nicely. I poured that off into another sanitized container and let that one settle for about 20 minutes. finally, i poured the liquid off that one into my original flask and tossed it in the fridge. the patty on the bottom is good sized and very white compared to the sludge it came from. i plan on decanting and pitching it tonight! i think the first time i washed yeast i was inexperienced and seemed a bigger pain than it truly is. this time was a piece of cake (literally?) and it was made even easier by the fact that i was bottling and already had all of my gear out anyways.

Very nice! I think you'll have great results. Let us know how it all turns out in a few weeks.

Cheers!!

I'm a bit concerned. I brewed it Friday night. It's Sunday morning and I have not so much as a bubble coming out my blowback tube. Thinking it might be a bad lid I cracked it to see if there was any activity beneath. Nothing. I'm thinking I better stop by the brew shop this afternoon and grab a vial or two of yeast. I can't for the life of me think of a reason why I don't have at least a bit of fermentation going.

Did you see a krausen ring inside your bucket? A krausen ring would look like gunk stuck to the sides of the bucket anywhere from 1/2 inch to several inches above the liquid. It might be a little bit of gunk or a lotta bit of gunk.

Does it smell like beer in the bucket or not?

If you can post a picture of the inside of your bucket for folks to look at it might help; might.

This is a long time for nothing to have occurred.

no krausen, nothing. totally dead. i went to the brew shop and snagged to vials of the same yeast and pitched them both. i'm not sure where i messed up, but it had to be the yeast. the beer turned out huge (1.085) and one fresh vial wouldn't be enough so considering i had no sign of fermentation i bought two.

anyone ever have to repitch a day or two later? will the beer be affected?

well, as suspected i re-aerated the wort and threw those two vials i purchased in and it's already fermenting this morning. apparently i did something to that yeast i washed that must have killed it or significantly dwindled its population. i wish i knew where i went wrong. normally i can pinpoint mistakes but i really am clueless on this one. at least the beer is fermenting and hopefully the delayed start won't mess it up noticeably.

when i cracked the lid to bottle i got a bad waft of sour smell and immediately was worried the batch was a goner. after a few seconds it was gone though. i racked it and took a taste before wasting any bottles and couldn't find anything notably wrong so i proceeded to bottle it after adding some cold brewed coffee. i'm drinking one right now as i write this. it turned out pretty darn good considering the mishap. i don't think i'll be washing yeast much anymore. the fact that i can't pinpoint where i went wrong and nearly ruined a batch makes it appear to be more of a pain than the $10 savings it worth.