WLP665 Flemish Ale Blend

Anyone else excited to see another sour blend coming from our friends at White Labs? This is listed as the 2012 Platinum Strain Series Release for Sept/Oct 2012.

Per their site...

Blended culture used to produce the classic beer styles of the West Flanders region of Belgium . A proprietary blend of Saccharomyces yeasts, Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, and Pediococcus, this culture creates a more complex, dark stone fruit characteristic than WLP 655 Belgian Sour Mix.

I read this as a Oud Bruin, Flanders Red blend.

i have a throbbing boner for it!

I'm already scheming how to get it over the Pacific. I'll be stateside at Christmas, so I'll have to have it shipped to a family member and let them refrigerate it for me until my visit.

spearko520 said:

i have a throbbing boner for it!

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Indeed! Watch for krausen lol.

I've got a raging mash paddle just thinking about it.

I'm thinking about maybe doing 10 gallons of Flanders Red/Brown and doing a side by side with Roeselare...

AmandaK said:

I'm thinking about maybe doing 10 gallons of Flanders Red/Brown and doing a side by side with Roeselare...

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I plan on helping you taste test.

I just picked up a couple of vials and ingredients for an Oud Bruin. I'm going with two vials in a 5 gallon batch, no starter, and pitching it from the start...then trying to be patient for the next 6-12 months.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

I plan on helping you taste test.

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Deal. Wanna do a trade in a year or so? :rockin:

As an update, I was thinking about using the BCS Flanders Brown recipe and scaling it up, but I may just use Vinnie's recipe for Supplication and scale that. Either way, I'll be brewing 20 gallons of sour before the year is up - 10 gallons Flanders Red/Brown and 10 gallons BGSA base. Should be interesting.

I just picked two vials up about 30 minutes ago (read about it in an AHS email and had my HBS special order for me earlier in the week), along with grain for a Flanders Brown at my HBC's group brew tomorrow!!

The race is on for the first HBT batch with this yeast!!

My lhbs has 2 vials on order for me. Im doing 2 versions of the bcs Flanders red as soon as i can free some fermenter space.

Just an FYI for anyone planning on using this blend, I pitched it into a Flanders Brown I brewed on Sunday. I commented in TopherM's thread as well, but this thing is generating a lot more sulfur than I've ever experienced with any other yeast. That combined with some funky aromas results in a pretty odd smelling fermentation...at least for the first few days. I started out and am currently fermenting at 71F.

Well, let's hope that dissipates with the large amount of time we have with this type of beer.

AmandaK said:

Well, let's hope that dissipates with the large amount of time we have with this type of beer.

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Yep, just an update, most of the sulfur smell is already gone.

AmandaK said:

I'm thinking about maybe doing 10 gallons of Flanders Red/Brown and doing a side by side with Roeselare...

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Doing this right now; poured them both in 7 days ago along with an ounce of oak in each. Should be interesting in a year.

Just grabbed the last 2 vials from Williams Brewing. Looking forward to trying this against the Wyeast Roeselare. Not sure how I missed the release of this one, but I'm really looking forward to it!

We have funky pellicle!!

My two beers are fermenting away now. I brewed a Flanders Red and an Oud Bruin. There was about a 3 day lag on the yeast before I saw any real action. No starter of course, there's no reason to mess with the blend after all.

The Oud Bruin (1.068 OG) did have a day or so of blow-off so the Sacc strain in this blend is a top cropper for certain. They are both going to sit in primary for a year.

This post will be resurrected in about a year to see how everything turned out.

Gah, I'm so jealous of you guys right now! Due to an upcoming move, I can't brew... and I have all the ingredients!

Looks like this batch is slated for the day after Thanksgiving in my parent's driveway (my annual sour beer brewing day):
For 10 gallons:
22# Rahr 2-row
2# C40
3# Vienna
0.25# Carafa III
22 IBU-ish
US-05 for 10 gallons, then split with WLP 665 & WY3763 - one vial and one smack pack for each 5 gallons.
No dregs - a break from my usual procedure.

Amanda K, I like that recipe. Looks deceptively simple, but should be awesome.

Do you use an infusion mash? If so what temp etc?

Here's my Oud Bruin recipe.

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/49529/oud-bruin-de-provision

and the Flanders Red.

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/49530/wild-brews-flanders-red-modern-malts

Azurecybe said:

Amanda K, I like that recipe. Looks deceptively simple, but should be awesome.

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It's a recipe I tweaked a bit from Vinnie @ Russian River for his Supplication (sour brown in pinot noir barrels on black currants). I'm hoping for something half as good!

I do a single infusion mash, will probably be shooting for 155-156 for this one. High enough to ferment it with US-05 down to around 1.020, then rack for the souring.

Why not just primary with the WL 665? Seems like the US-05 would eat up a lot and extend the souring time period.

It's been 8 months or so and I'm getting anxious. Both the Red and the Bruin have thick and nasty-looking pellicles still going strong. I had planned to bottle in July but with the warmer temps in my basement it looks like the bugs arent yet done.

They both smell like they should (lots of lactic, no aceto) but I'm not sure if they are sour enough yet. I might rack the Red into another container and bottle when the acetic acid gets to the right level.

I scored 37/36/36 last week in a local sour contest for my Flander's Brown with a very basic brown recipe and WLP 665 as the only yeast in primary fermentation. Didn't place, but I'm happy with the scores!

I brewed my Flanders Red on 11/23/2012 and tasted it 6 months in. I pitched it straight with wlp665 and dregs from a bottle of Avery Oud Floris.

It tasted great. Pretty damn lactic, a good horsey brett funk and a thick mouthfeel probably due the fairly high gravity. Gravity reading was 1.017. No noticeable acetic acid. Probably will take over a year total to get down to gravity but it tasted quite promising.

Pellicle shot of my 8 month old low gravity Oud Bruin. Pitched US-05 and WLP665 together in primary. Smells slightly acetic but not overwhelming by any means.

nofootbreak said:

I brewed my Flanders Red on 11/23/2012 and tasted it 6 months in. I pitched it straight with wlp665 and dregs from a bottle of Avery Oud Floris.

It tasted great. Pretty damn lactic, a good horsey brett funk and a thick mouthfeel probably due the fairly high gravity. Gravity reading was 1.017. No noticeable acetic acid. Probably will take over a year total to get down to gravity but it tasted quite promising.

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I too brewed the same thing on 1-6-13 and it is only slightly tart, but has the brett funk going on. Secondary started at 1.020, it is now at 1.016. Unlike you guys, I have almost no pellicle, just a little crud along the edge and some surface bubbles. Then again, I have just a little head space and it's in glass with a rubber stopper/airlock, so little oxygen contact. I'll let it go at least another 6 months.

I have 8 lbs of frozen sour cherries I want to add to it, not sure if I should add it now or later. Also, I would have to add it to a bucket for added volume. Will this allow too much oxygen? And how long on the cherries.... Any thoughts?

My pellice dropped a few weeks ago. I'm busy for the rest of the weekends this month but I plan to bottle a lot of sour in September. The nose is spot on. I have decided against racking the Flanders Red to get aceto character. It may be considered to have a flaw with no acetic acid but I'm not too worried.

Any updates?

My sour red is still sitting at the same gravity of 1.017 6 months after my last sample, just wondering where other people are at. This beer tastes ready but I am a bit surprised the gravity is still so high after a year, and that it hasn't changed in 6 months.

I did use 12% caramel malts, a mash temp of 160 and a 2hr boil so that could explain why the gravity is still high. I suppose some body in a beer like this wont be a bad thing, but its just under 5% abv as is, and I was expecting it to be about 6%.

Thinking Ill just throw some oak in there and let it go until theres a hint of oak character where I want and bottle.

I checked mine after 9 months and it is at 1013, down 3 more points in 4 months. It is taking on a nice winey essence but still needs more acidity. Will check again after the first of the year. I'm still on the fence about adding cherries..

I added 1 oz of oak cubes when I transferred to secondary; I wonder if this created an environment for additional Brett propagation. Perhaps you should add the oak and give it more time?

I have an american oak spiral Ive never used. I might have to cut a small chunk off and let it sit on that for a while. Maybe add some of the Crooked Stave brett Ive built up and see if that helps.

My Flanders is finally bottled after a year. It finished at 1.007 and was carbed to 3.5 vols in corked and caged 750's. The acidity is on the low side but there is that nice pie cherry character from the Brett. I used the Rodenbach step mash from Wild Brews. A touch of astringency came out from somewhere which is odd as I didn't use oak.I'm hoping this fades as it develops in the bottle.

It's got really nice head retention for a sour. This is only after a month in the bottle. I really should take a PH reading and see where how it compares to commercial examples.

that looks great!

I used it in my Oud Bruin. I added the dregs from a Jolly Pumpkin La Roja recently which resulted in a meaner looking pellicle than it originally had. It's still in the fermenter but I pulled a sample last month. The flavor profile is similar to the beers I've done with Roeselare but not exactly the same. It's about 14 months old right now and the pH is right around 3.8 per my test strips. It's worth mentioning, I forgot to adjust the recipe for my efficiency, so the OG was higher than I expected, so this was kind of an Imperial Oud Bruin. I don't have my notes in front of me but it was bigger than 1.074...I want to say it was 1.100. That could have impacted the bugs' ability to sour.

Azurecybe said:

My Flanders is finally bottled after a year. It finished at 1.007 and was carbed to 3.5 vols in corked and caged 750's. The acidity is on the low side but there is that nice pie cherry character from the Brett. I used the Rodenbach step mash from Wild Brews. A touch of astringency came out from somewhere which is odd as I didn't use oak.I'm hoping this fades as it develops in the bottle.

It's got really nice head retention for a sour. This is only after a month in the bottle. I really should take a PH reading and see where how it compares to commercial examples.

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Your Flanders looks great! I really want to brew a Flanders but I am afraid it will end up too barnyard-y for my tastes and I wasted a year for nothing... Did you do anything different to carb, or did the 665 carb up as if you used sacc?

Carbed with 3 grams of cbc bottle conditioning yeast. It had carbed in 10 days.

Cool thx for the help!

This beer turned out great.

I sent some of my Oud Bruin off to the NHC this year. It didn't place, but it scored well (38 and 40 if I remember correctly). Both judges liked the beer but felt it was a little too sour for the style. I don't know if it was the recipe or the blend, but it took a lot longer to reach the same sourness level as the Roeselare I've used in other beers, but it did eventually get fairly tart. I'd definitely give this one a try again.