Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different
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Ostomo517
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I mentioned this earlier, not sure if different brands have different potency, but I only use 1 gram per cup of dry rice.
saramc
Well-Known Member
When the thread first started we were working with what was shared and we ran with it, and almost everyone was successful. Those who had a failure tried again for the most part. Anyway, later in the thread someone actually had a translation or verbal instructions and shared 2-10gm balls/kilo. I even had a convo and Asian market owner said '2 per kilo', as she looked at my package and walked me to the rice.
I remember the dose based on the '2' and one kg is '2.2#'--but the original shared post is buried in the thread.
So assuming 6 cups raw rice/pound you are using 6gm/pound.
So I've done 2 full batches which resulted in 1 gallon of wine each. I used Sweet rice for the first 2 batches and Jasmine for the current batch. This last batch I put the leftover solids from the second batch in as well. I used about 6 balls and a couple shakes of Ale yeast for 5 pounds of rice, which I steamed after soaking it overnight at room temp. I also added enough water to the rice in the bucket so that it would slop around if I shook the bucket. Both batches fermented out 90% of the way out in 6 days to about 8-10% Alcohol. I fermented the rice on a my wife's hot-pad set to the lowest setting. I followed the same sanitary practices (not super crazy clean but mindful) as I do when brewing beer. At no time did mine grow mold, and from a couple of tutorials I watched I don't expect that mold growth is the proper outcome. This is the tutorial I watched and modified to make it more like brewing beer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E2qXRGih1E8#! I put the wine in some glass Gallon jugs and refrigerated it. I then separated out the the clear, yellowish tinted fluid. I tried it with the sediment mixed in and IMO felt that the cleared product tasted better. I thought it tasted more smooth than Sake and sure did get me F'ed up one night when I accidentally forgot to cut myself off 
I think the added water made mine weaker but sped up the process and thus avoided the mold growth problem. Just my two cents.
I think the added water made mine weaker but sped up the process and thus avoided the mold growth problem. Just my two cents.
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
Im sorry, im a idiot lol Its just under a gram a cup. For 5 cups rice I used 4 grams, probably doesnt make a diff but there you go.
nhamilto40
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One week and three week pics. Its largely liquefied from the conversion of the starch but is still fermenting vigorously. I don't think it will be finished at the four week mark.
Grains of rice are cycling up and down from the floating cap to the bottom.
Grains of rice are cycling up and down from the floating cap to the bottom.
user 83772
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So, assuming I have a fermentation vessel with a 3.5 quart capacity - how many cups of cooked rice would y'all suggest I aim for?
saramc
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Perhaps 3.25 quarts, because it does not foam/krausen and it actually collapses on itself.
Hmm, I think I will go with one 10gm ball per kilo of raw rice and see how that works out. Soaking rice for the 1/3 volume increase in jasmine green tea right now and I will then prepare the rice in my cooker in more jasmine green tea.
Will update in 21-30 days!
user 83772
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Thanks for the quick reply, sara! Any advice on what that comes out to in cups of rice?
saramc
Well-Known Member
If you are looking to fill your jar to 3.25 quart level and there are four cups per quart you will need 13 cups prepared rice. Most rices volumize at 1:3, one cup dry yields three cups prepared..but check your rice package. Assuming you have a 1:3 rice you will need to prepare about 4 1/3 cups dry rice. Do not forget to rinse the dry rice until runs clear, then soak it in water/liquid of choice until the rice reaches a volume of six cups; then strain, rinse until clear AGAIN and prepare.
You could fill the multi-quart jar to the top and three days later steal a bit of sweet fermented rice for a tasty treat!
Ostomo517
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nhamilto40
Well-Known Member
My current batch used 2 kg (~ 9.5 cups) of dry rice and fit into half of a 2.5 gallon jar.
So (9.5 cups/5 quarts) * 3.5 quarts ~= 6.5 cups of dry rice.
Ok, just got home and checked the progress. My Saturday batch is all fuzzy with mold across the top, with a little water at the bottom. My Sunday batch has no mold, and a lot more water on the bottom.
Any thoughts? Is the mold a deal breaker? (I think it is.)
Any thoughts? Is the mold a deal breaker? (I think it is.)
Ostomo517
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Depends, you want it to have fuzzy white mold
trbig
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Same jar from post 997, my Saturday batch. You can't really see the mold in the second pic, it's the little speckles. Most of it's white, some grey.
nhamilto40
Well-Known Member
Not hitting the rice wine yet.. its not finished.
9.5 cups of short grain rice weighs about 2 kg (4.4 lb). I used Calrose which is a short grain type.
bulk density:
short grain polished rice 900 kg/m^3 = 900 g/L
Calculation:
9.5 cup ~= 2.25 liters
2.25 L * 900 g/L = 2025 g = 2.025 kg
trbig
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OK.. Not that I'm a math wiz or anything, but I was thinking I used 12 cups out of a bag of 5lb Jasmine rice and had half a bag left. Then remembered, I split this batch half and half with sushi rice, so roughly 6 cups (Full sized U.S. cups) would come in for my rice at close to 2 1/2 lbs, or a little over a kilo. I need to weigh it to be official, but for 9.5 cups, that puts me in at close to 4 lbs with my rice.. so you win!
Re-reading this, it looks to have come off really snide and hateful. I apologize. I was laughing and just messing around with you. I should have put a smiley icon in or something. Sorry.
So I'm on vacation and dying to know how my rice wine is doing but it'll have to wait until Friday. I've been wondering about this mild though...it seems that some have been getting it and some not but the people with no mold are still getting good rice wine. I'm going to do some research when I get back but what's the deal with this stuff? Why is it beneficial? And what are the factors that are contributing to some people growin mold and others not? Last question: does the last bit of rice not liquefy? I'm only asking cause if there's mold on top I don't want that in my rice wine haha. Thanks guys and happy...rice cooking?
OP
OP
Oh everyone's has fungus in it whether you see it or not. That is what is breaking down the rice starch and making it available for the yeasties. My guess would be different yeast balls, different yeast ball ratios, different growing conditions, etc. all contribute to the different mold views.
The bottom line though was that if it wasn't there, you wouldn't have any amylase activity and you wouldn't have any rice wine.
VDarius
New Member
I've done over a dozen small experimental batches of this so far. I've made it with sweet rice, jasmine rice, calrose, long-grain, parboiled, and a mystery short-grain abandoned in my pantry by an old roommate (which I suspect was also calrose).
Every time I used a 2:1 ratio of rice to water, the rice came out very mushy, and after a few days there was a lot of visible mold on the boundary layer separating rice and air (which looked exactly like the pre-sporing Rhizopus Oryzae at the top of page 87 of this thread). All of my 2:1 ratio batches were kinda horrible. They never smelled/tasted sweet at any point in the process, and the product was a little sour. if I weren't a broke college student I would almost call it undrinkable.
I switched to using a ~1:1 ratio of rice to water, and the difference is stark. No visible mold whatsoever, on any kind of rice. All my 1:1 batches have smelled fruity and delicious within days, and the product has been strong, slightly sweet, slightly tart, and absolutely great! Same ambient temp, same ambient light, same brewing spot, same yeast balls, same rice, same soak times, same brewing/sanitizing procedure and same brewing vessels. The water:rice ratio is the only variable as far as I can tell.
If you're having difficulty getting the sweet fruity aroma/flavor, and your product is "meh", my advice would be to try a 1:1 ratio when you cook the rice.
I can't speak to what may prevent ethyl acetate production, though--I've never had a problem with that.
Every time I used a 2:1 ratio of rice to water, the rice came out very mushy, and after a few days there was a lot of visible mold on the boundary layer separating rice and air (which looked exactly like the pre-sporing Rhizopus Oryzae at the top of page 87 of this thread). All of my 2:1 ratio batches were kinda horrible. They never smelled/tasted sweet at any point in the process, and the product was a little sour. if I weren't a broke college student I would almost call it undrinkable.
I switched to using a ~1:1 ratio of rice to water, and the difference is stark. No visible mold whatsoever, on any kind of rice. All my 1:1 batches have smelled fruity and delicious within days, and the product has been strong, slightly sweet, slightly tart, and absolutely great! Same ambient temp, same ambient light, same brewing spot, same yeast balls, same rice, same soak times, same brewing/sanitizing procedure and same brewing vessels. The water:rice ratio is the only variable as far as I can tell.
If you're having difficulty getting the sweet fruity aroma/flavor, and your product is "meh", my advice would be to try a 1:1 ratio when you cook the rice.
I can't speak to what may prevent ethyl acetate production, though--I've never had a problem with that.
lakedawgs
Well-Known Member
VDarius, good stuff, thanks.
Are you pre-soaking your rice, if so, for how long?
Thanks
Are you pre-soaking your rice, if so, for how long?
Thanks
I use about a 1 to 1 ratio as well, and I have similar results. Seriously, look at that video I posted, the guy barely knows what he's doing but it turns out. Take what he does and use our techniques and you'll do well. I could not find the mill yeast, but the balls work as well.
I soak overnight.
I soaked for one hour.
OP
OP
I think we are starting to see it pretty well established that too much water makes for a much more difficult ferment.
Wild rice is grasss seed, not rice at all.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Halbrust said:
I was waiting to see if someone would mention that. It probably doesn't have nearly enough starch to make this work. It's all fiber and protein, not enough carbohydrates.
VDarius
New Member
I apologize in advance. I've never quite gotten the hang of brevity, so I tend to err on the side of providing too many details.
TL;DR: Regardless of rice type, my winning process seems to be:
-5 cups of dry rice per gallon of fermenting space. I use 64-ounce glass containers, so 2.5 cups per container for me.
-Soak rice for 1 hour, then wash ~20 times. Water should not cloud when introduced to your rice.
-Add approximately the same amount of water as your starting amount of dry rice--after soaking your rice has a greater volume. I always measure from the starting volume, and not the soaked volume.
-Cook rice over ~1 hour with the lid on, at a low-ish temperature. Finished rice should be in discrete grains when done cooking--NOT MUSHY! Short-grain variants are translucent when done, though long-grain variants never become translucent for me.
-Wait for rice to cool to room temp before layering rice and powdered yeast balls in fermentation vessel.
-Put fermenting vessel in a dark corner and forget about it for 3 weeks. My dark corner is a pantry which varies ~ 2 degrees F between night and day.
I soak for an hour, give or take a few minutes. I tried soaking for 12 hours (a commonly quoted number), just to seek what happened, and the rice turned out mushy when cooked in a 1:1 ratio, much like my 2:1 batches. Fuzzy mold ensued, and the product was unimpressive.
It's worth noting that I tried adding water to my ferments just after I cooked the rice (similar to the process used to create Makgeolli, though I was using Jiuqu, not Nuruk). I noticed that the rice liquefied faster, and seemed to ferment faster, but the final product was the same as when I didn't add any extra water. The product did seem a little weaker, though--probably because the alcohol was dispersed across a greater volume of water. The most important factor for me has been the water I use to cook the rice--not the water in the fermenting vessel after the rice has been cooked.
Adding water will increase your total volume, but it doesn't seem to affect fermentation time or gross alcohol production. The amount of alcohol produced seems to have more to do with your initial volume of rice--not your initial amount of water (which makes sense--the yeast can only ferment the sugars which are liberated from the glucose polymers in the rice via amylolysis. More rice equals more polymers for the molds to catabolize. Water only affects the dispersal of the mold--not their total amylolytic efficiency. I knew my classes in molecular/micro biology would come in handy *someday* =P).
For some reason, though, rice-to-water ratio in cooking has had the greatest impact on my product. All of the rice I've tried has been husked (so no brown rice--though parboiled long-grain rice did yield a banana-ish flavor).
For reference, I'm at ~1 mile above sea level, my ambient temp has been ~65*F for all my attempts, and it's Winter for me, so the air has been dry. I've been using the same "Happy Panda" brand yeast balls that sonofgrok has been using, and the type of rice I've used has only seemed to change the flavor of the product. The alcohol content and fermentation time seem to be relatively constant across all rice types.
I can only speak for myself, though--there are likely a score or more variables I'm not aware of.
What process has worked best for everyone, and what are the ambient variables (temp, altitude, and ambient light)? I'm satisfied with my results, but I'm not quite satisfied that we've unraveled all of the crucial factors yet...
TL;DR: Regardless of rice type, my winning process seems to be:
-5 cups of dry rice per gallon of fermenting space. I use 64-ounce glass containers, so 2.5 cups per container for me.
-Soak rice for 1 hour, then wash ~20 times. Water should not cloud when introduced to your rice.
-Add approximately the same amount of water as your starting amount of dry rice--after soaking your rice has a greater volume. I always measure from the starting volume, and not the soaked volume.
-Cook rice over ~1 hour with the lid on, at a low-ish temperature. Finished rice should be in discrete grains when done cooking--NOT MUSHY! Short-grain variants are translucent when done, though long-grain variants never become translucent for me.
-Wait for rice to cool to room temp before layering rice and powdered yeast balls in fermentation vessel.
-Put fermenting vessel in a dark corner and forget about it for 3 weeks. My dark corner is a pantry which varies ~ 2 degrees F between night and day.
I soak for an hour, give or take a few minutes. I tried soaking for 12 hours (a commonly quoted number), just to seek what happened, and the rice turned out mushy when cooked in a 1:1 ratio, much like my 2:1 batches. Fuzzy mold ensued, and the product was unimpressive.
It's worth noting that I tried adding water to my ferments just after I cooked the rice (similar to the process used to create Makgeolli, though I was using Jiuqu, not Nuruk). I noticed that the rice liquefied faster, and seemed to ferment faster, but the final product was the same as when I didn't add any extra water. The product did seem a little weaker, though--probably because the alcohol was dispersed across a greater volume of water. The most important factor for me has been the water I use to cook the rice--not the water in the fermenting vessel after the rice has been cooked.
Adding water will increase your total volume, but it doesn't seem to affect fermentation time or gross alcohol production. The amount of alcohol produced seems to have more to do with your initial volume of rice--not your initial amount of water (which makes sense--the yeast can only ferment the sugars which are liberated from the glucose polymers in the rice via amylolysis. More rice equals more polymers for the molds to catabolize. Water only affects the dispersal of the mold--not their total amylolytic efficiency. I knew my classes in molecular/micro biology would come in handy *someday* =P).
For some reason, though, rice-to-water ratio in cooking has had the greatest impact on my product. All of the rice I've tried has been husked (so no brown rice--though parboiled long-grain rice did yield a banana-ish flavor).
For reference, I'm at ~1 mile above sea level, my ambient temp has been ~65*F for all my attempts, and it's Winter for me, so the air has been dry. I've been using the same "Happy Panda" brand yeast balls that sonofgrok has been using, and the type of rice I've used has only seemed to change the flavor of the product. The alcohol content and fermentation time seem to be relatively constant across all rice types.
I can only speak for myself, though--there are likely a score or more variables I'm not aware of.
What process has worked best for everyone, and what are the ambient variables (temp, altitude, and ambient light)? I'm satisfied with my results, but I'm not quite satisfied that we've unraveled all of the crucial factors yet...
OP
OP
We had a winter? Ha ha. Thanks for all the great detail.
saramc
Well-Known Member
I wanted to post a pic of rice which I had soaked in jasmine green tea(drinking strength) and then I used one tea bag per cup of dry rice added to the liquid in the rice cooker(just removed the string). The rice kernels were nicely stained and aromatic before I cooked the rice, but even more so afterwards. I know, my yeast balls needs to be powdered better (son was helping and he thought they were crushed).
saramc
Well-Known Member
I put 1/2-1 cup fruit in quart jar and top off with the finished rice wine. And I just leave in refrig for a few days and then strain off, gently press the fruit. You can place on counter and the alcohol will extract the juice within 24-72 hours.
trbig
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Chalk another loss up for the 3-1 water to rice ratio. I could smell these amazing sweet alcohol fumes, but there was an overpowering sour smell that came with it, along with a VERY sour taste. No good. BUT... it wasn't a total loss. I tried straining mine using a stainless grease trapper thing you put over pans.
When the liquid slows to a trickle, you can pick up the strainer and use a flipping type motion, much like if you were going to flip a pancake in a pan without a spatula. The rice stays in a glob, and as it comes down, it squeezes out the liquid. Just keep doing this over and over, flipping the mass over on itself until the liquid quits freely running. It may make a bit of a splashing mess, but I strained out my 12 cup batch in less than 30 minutes, though I wasn't concerned about getting every single last drop out. Something to try anyway.
For me... back to the drawing board. Will try the hour soak, then the 1-1 ratio. I was hoping more water would result in more wine, but I see what's being said. Even if the 3-1 ratio works, the water isn't what's being fermented, so what you end up with is simply more wine, less alcohol. I've got a 25lb bag of Jasmine rice here to play with, and since I've discovered I basically need a yeast ball per pound, not per cup, I should have enough yeast balls to get me a few more batches.
Wish me luck.
Also.. just another note. I have been reading about raising the Koji yeast, and it also says that for best results, you want plump rice, but not moist or wet rice. So maybe more to this theory than we know.
When the liquid slows to a trickle, you can pick up the strainer and use a flipping type motion, much like if you were going to flip a pancake in a pan without a spatula. The rice stays in a glob, and as it comes down, it squeezes out the liquid. Just keep doing this over and over, flipping the mass over on itself until the liquid quits freely running. It may make a bit of a splashing mess, but I strained out my 12 cup batch in less than 30 minutes, though I wasn't concerned about getting every single last drop out. Something to try anyway.
For me... back to the drawing board. Will try the hour soak, then the 1-1 ratio. I was hoping more water would result in more wine, but I see what's being said. Even if the 3-1 ratio works, the water isn't what's being fermented, so what you end up with is simply more wine, less alcohol. I've got a 25lb bag of Jasmine rice here to play with, and since I've discovered I basically need a yeast ball per pound, not per cup, I should have enough yeast balls to get me a few more batches.
Wish me luck.
Also.. just another note. I have been reading about raising the Koji yeast, and it also says that for best results, you want plump rice, but not moist or wet rice. So maybe more to this theory than we know.
OP
OP
I use frozen blueberries (maybe a cup or so) and microwave them then squeeze them out either by using two bowls that fit inside each other or in a cheesecloth or nylon bag.
trbig
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OK.. so we let this go for at least 21 days. Do you think that's necessary? Do you think it's anything like a normal brew and the majority of the fermentation is done after the first 6-8 days? I know my airlock was bubbling pretty good on days 3-4, but it dropped off after that and didn't bubble any more.
If it's only a difference of a couple percent of alcohol to get a batch every week versus every three weeks, I'd say it's worth it. Opinions?
If it's only a difference of a couple percent of alcohol to get a batch every week versus every three weeks, I'd say it's worth it. Opinions?
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
I wondered about that too but I didnt really open my bucket a lot along the way, just let it ferment out the given time. I would imagine you would need a more accurate way to measure the abv to be sure I guess.
saramc
Well-Known Member
From info we have buried in here we learned that the majority of the conversion does not occur like traditional wine making, thus the recommendation of 21-30 days. Dealing with a different fermentable and typically wild yeast(s) from the region the yeast ball is from.
If you sample at 7-14-21-28 you will notice immense differences.
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