Pumping water through Chiller

Ok I am looking into pumping ice water through my immersion chiller from a bucket and a pump since I am going to be doing 10 gallon batches and I don't want to move my keggle after the boil. What have y'all used in terms of pumps. I was wondering what GPH and Head hight rating y'all have used or recommend.

Thanks,
-G

Both Nicksteck and I use IC's with Ice water recirculation. I had an old sump pump with a garden hose connection. Works EXTREMELY well. great flow, the pump is submersible so you put it in any old tub without having to purchase fittings.

You can see Nick's chiller on the floor in the background and a hose & cord in the white bucket (sorry that's the best photo I have) and the icewater...

I use a pond pump and a 50' IC chiller. It says it pumps 300 gallons an hour, works great, very small and portable. This helped the chill times immensely without having to go to a plate chiller.

Ok so around a 300gph pump will work for 50'. I will look into my reef keeping connections for a cheap pump.

Im running a 60 foot chiller with a 300 gph 12' pump. Works okay.. The reason I say that is because the water comes out completely heat saturated for the first 5 minutes. Which means I could pump more water through there faster and achieve a much quicker cooling time. Pumps aint cheap though.

I would think that if the water came out hot that it was doing it's job in absorbing the heat from the wort and transfering it elsewhere. I found a pump at harbor freight for $29 that is 400 gph and I think will do nicely. Virtuous are you saying that you have a pump that works at a 12' head @ 300 gph? What kind of pump are you using?

Wouldn't a washing machine/dishwasher pump work as well..?.

Not immersible, of course (separate housing), but probably capable of handling hot water.

hmpitags2006 said:

I would think that if the water came out hot that it was doing it's job in absorbing the heat from the wort and transfering it elsewhere. I found a pump at harbor freight for $29 that is 400 gph and I think will do nicely. Virtuous are you saying that you have a pump that works at a 12' head @ 300 gph? What kind of pump are you using?

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I think it rates at one or the other, because the flow isnt that impressive.

Yes, you're right the water is doing it's job but if the water comes out equal to the temp of the wort it is completely saturated and will not pull away any more heat. I cant tell when it becomes saturated though, it could be happening 25' into the 50' coil which means the remaining 25' isnt doing anything. If I pump water in there fast enough that it comes out just under the temp of the wort I know the coil is being used to maximum efficiency. See what I mean?

beergears said:

Wouldn't a washing machine/dishwasher pump work as well..?.

Not immersible, of course (separate housing), but probably capable of handling hot water.

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It doesnt need to be capable of pumping hot water. Just cold water. Hot water comes out the other end

I personally use the normal garden hose until I get the temps down to around 100, the faucet temp and ice water temps aren't going to help very hot wort cool much faster, the flow rate is more important. Unless you have water restrictions I would just use the tap/garden hose water first, then switch to the pump, best of both worlds.

Flow rate would probably help, but temp dif is probably more important with the pump for the lower temps. My little 300 gallon pump drops the temps great once below 100. The water coming out of the output is still fairly cold so I don't see the need for increased flow for me.

knarfks said:

I personally use the normal garden hose until I get the temps down to around 100, the faucet temp and ice water temps aren't going to help very hot wort cool much faster, the flow rate is more important. Unless you have water restrictions I would just use the tap/garden hose water first, then switch to the pump, best of both worlds.

Flow rate would probably help, but temp dif is probably more important with the pump for the lower temps. My little 300 gallon pump drops the temps great once below 100. The water coming out of the output is still fairly cold so I don't see the need for increased flow for me.

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That's exactly the way I get it done. I configured a Y at the input side of my chiller. You can buy one at your local home depot. It has ball valves built in so once you have your hosed hooked up, you chill down to 100 deg. flip a switch and a valve or two and there ya go.... it's ice bath time.

My march pump works good for me. I pump through 50' of 1/4" copper with no problem. As others have said, after the first 5 minutes or so, flow is less important than cooler surface area and temperature differential.

knarfks said:

I personally use the normal garden hose until I get the temps down to around 100, the faucet temp and ice water temps aren't going to help very hot wort cool much faster, the flow rate is more important. Unless you have water restrictions I would just use the tap/garden hose water first, then switch to the pump, best of both worlds.

Flow rate would probably help, but temp dif is probably more important with the pump for the lower temps. My little 300 gallon pump drops the temps great once below 100. The water coming out of the output is still fairly cold so I don't see the need for increased flow for me.

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I live in an apt so no garden hose for me. With my old kettle I would have to do the hot wort scuttle to my kitchen to hook it up to my faucet. Now I am using a keggle I can't do that safely so I need an alternative solution. I would love to use a march pump but I am a poor college graduate until I get my career going. I would think that I could use cold tap water until I get my temps down around 100 then throw the ice into the bucket that I am pumping water from so it isn't soo much of a waste.

hmpitags2006 said:

I live in an apt so no garden hose for me. With my old kettle I would have to do the hot wort scuttle to my kitchen to hook it up to my faucet. Now I am using a keggle I can't do that safely so I need an alternative solution. I would love to use a march pump but I am a poor college graduate until I get my career going. I would think that I could use cold tap water until I get my temps down around 100 then throw the ice into the bucket that I am pumping water from so it isn't soo much of a waste.

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Since you are using a march pump for cool temps only, there is no reason to spend the big bucks. I bought a used march pump for 10 bucks on ebay, 20 if you count shipping. Then your only cost is fittings - say 20 bucks at a hardware store and you are chillin' like a pro.

John, I'm going to have to steal you Y port solution...That is a great idea, I'm sick of switching hoses.

Are there any mechanical engineers here? just curious. I'm new to this stuff, and wort chillers look like heat exchangers, which is the bread-and-butter of MEs, right?

Seabee John said:

That's exactly the way I get it done. I configured a Y at the input side of my chiller. You can buy one at your local home depot. It has ball valves built in so once you have your hosed hooked up, you chill down to 100 deg. flip a switch and a valve or two and there ya go.... it's ice bath time.

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This is cool, some creative thinking going on here!

vmpolesov said:

Are there any mechanical engineers here? just curious. I'm new to this stuff, and wort chillers look like heat exchangers, which is the bread-and-butter of MEs, right?

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Right, wort chillers are just heat exchangers. Lots of ways to put them to use. The most efficient ones are the big plate chillers.

Lil' Sparky said:

Right, wort chillers are just heat exchangers. Lots of ways to put them to use. The most efficient ones are the big plate chillers.

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Have any DIY types invented some super-gonzo cooler that pushes the envelope of physics?

Oh, you mean something like this?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41690

Isnt the idea of using a pump with a chiller so you can use say 5 gallons of water to cool your wort and not have to waste tap water? Tap water should be better conserved as it is not an unlimited resource like some think. It costs cities immense amounts of money to maintain a water supply that we can drink from and we all need to do our part to conserve it, imho.

what model march pump is used ?

sanders5x said:

Isnt the idea of using a pump with a chiller so you can use say 5 gallons of water to cool your wort and not have to waste tap water? Tap water should be better conserved as it is not an unlimited resource like some think. It costs cities immense amounts of money to maintain a water supply that we can drink from and we all need to do our part to conserve it, imho.

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Yes and no. You can recirculate the water while adding more and more ice. But then you are using more energy to freeze the water to cool the hot water, etc etc...
Municipalities waste far more water than any of us could dream of. Now I am not saying I condone wasteful water usage but it works out to be the same as taking 1 extra shower a week. If you want to conserve then drain the water into the soil and not the sewage system. The Collection system and process requires far more money and energy then simply pumping it out of the ground.

get a rainwater bucket or similar large container, and route the water into that after a trip through the coils. then water your yard or garden with it.

vmpolesov said:

get a rainwater bucket or similar large container, and route the water into that after a trip through the coils. then water your yard or garden with it.

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this is what i do. locally i get 55 gal plastic drums for $8, i've got em on every downspout

Virtuous said:

Yes and no. You can recirculate the water while adding more and more ice. But then you are using more energy to freeze the water to cool the hot water, etc etc...
Municipalities waste far more water than any of us could dream of. Now I am not saying I condone wasteful water usage but it works out to be the same as taking 1 extra shower a week. If you want to conserve then drain the water into the soil and not the sewage system. The Collection system and process requires far more money and energy then simply pumping it out of the ground.

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I agree that some municipalities waste water, but I know alot of them do not get it from the ground either. They have to pump it out of rivers and treat it, which adds up. I agree that you should use your spent water to water the lawn, as it takes a tremendous amount of work to condition waste water to be released back into the environment. I think that the energy spent on making ice would be offset if you factor in how many gallons of water you save by recirculating it. I make alot of ice out side this time of year and I could store it for latter in the deep freeze if I wanted but not everyone has the benefit of -20 winters I get alot of my ice from either liquor stores when I buy something there(free bag with purchase) or the excess capacity of my freezer with 3 ice cube trays. You would be shocked how many gallons of water chilling your wort takes. Also most showers have the water saving heads installed. Just my 2 cents.

sanders5x said:

I agree that some municipalities waste water, but I know alot of them do not get it from the ground either. They have to pump it out of rivers and treat it, which adds up. I agree that you should use your spent water to water the lawn, as it takes a tremendous amount of work to condition waste water to be released back into the environment. I think that the energy spent on making ice would be offset if you factor in how many gallons of water you save by recirculating it. I make alot of ice out side this time of year and I could store it for latter in the deep freeze if I wanted but not everyone has the benefit of -20 winters I get alot of my ice from either liquor stores when I buy something there(free bag with purchase) or the excess capacity of my freezer with 3 ice cube trays. You would be shocked how many gallons of water chilling your wort takes. Also most showers have the water saving heads installed. Just my 2 cents.

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Heh, if I had a yard full of snow yeah I wouldnt worry about it. Here in the south I would use several bags of ice. I'm not adding 10-15 bucks to my brew cost to save some water.

Okay... I just finished a little test. with my pump and 50' cooler. It took 2 minutes to get 1 gallon of flow. 0.5 GPM. Considering it takes less than 10 minutes and 2 bags of ice without recirculating to get 5 gallons <70 degrees. I am not even using 5 gallons of water. Hardly worth the effort in my situation.