Wyeast 3787 -- sweet but dry?

I was curious if anyone else has ever had this experience with 3787. I brewed up a Belgian Dark using 3787 as my yeast. OG around 1.078 and it attenuated down to 1.010. Recipe was:

14 lbs. Belgian pale
0.25 lb Crystal 40L
0.25 lb Crystal 10L
0.25 lb CaraVienne
0.25 lb CaraPils
0.25 lb Belgian Special "B"
2 lbs. Amber candi syrup during primary fermentation

1.25 oz Styrian Goldings (60 min)

Mashed at 149 for 90 minutes. Pitched a huge starter and fermented between 68-73.

I just bottled this weekend and was somewhat surprised by the taste. This thing has been fermenting since January 9: two weeks in primary and then the rest in secondary. When I tasted it, the beer was sort of sweet, but also dry. Very complex with fruity undertones, but the sweetness is what surprised me (and not in a bad way).

I guess my main question is whether this surprises anybody else? For having such great attenuation and low FG, the sweetness sort of came out of nowhere for me. Is it totally attributable to the yeast?

bump, interested in hearing from others as I have a dark strong ale going right now with this yeast with an OG of 1105. I am VERY encouraged by your results. Today is eight days after pitching and the yeast is still moving around quite vigorously. I've gradually upped the ambient temp from 64 to 68 after the first three days. When it starts to slow I will probably put it on a heating pad on low.

My recipe looked a lot like yours although my two pounds of sugar was .75 dark syrup (D1 bag) and 1.25 sucrose. After brewing I read you should incrementally add the sugar during the primary so I'm hoping I get anywhere near your attenuation.

joety said:

My recipe looked a lot like yours although my two pounds of sugar was .75 dark syrup (D1 bag) and 1.25 sucrose. After brewing I read you should incrementally add the sugar during the primary so I'm hoping I get anywhere near your attenuation.

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From what I've read, the main reason for adding incrementally is just to avoid off flavors produced by overstressing the yeast. I did a dubbel back in August that started out very hot (i.e., noticeable alcohol flavor) when I bottled, and I'm pretty sure that's because I didn't have enough yeast to start and I added all the sugar syrup at the very beginning. I can happily report now, though, that it has evolved into my favorite batch ever. It was pretty damn good to start, but now it is incredible.

I'll post on this thread to let you know the final result. First "official" taste will probably be in three weeks or so, but I really liked this sucker so far.

Unfortunately mine only dropped to 1031 after four weeks after starting at 1105. If anyone has any ideas on how to further attenuate it, let me know. I may start by insulating my heat box and see how hot I can get it.

bump... joety, how did this beer turn out? I started at that exact specific gravity of 1105 and ended at 1032. Did you ever get it to attenuate further?

Thanks

heywolfie1015 said:

I guess my main question is whether this surprises anybody else? For having such great attenuation and low FG, the sweetness sort of came out of nowhere for me. Is it totally attributable to the yeast?

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Ethanol is pretty sweet, and from your OG and the amount of attenuation you got, there's enough of it in there for the alcohol sweetness to come through and be present alongside the malt.

I agree with indigi.

I brewed a 1.080 tripel with wlp530 that finished at 1.010. It was somewhat dry but also sweet from the alc. Its a good beer but not what I expected.

Still stuck at 1031. I am going to try a lager yeast in a week or so. It's been sitting in a keg for months.

Have you tasted it? It might be fine at 1.031. If not, though, make sure to pitch a big starter, on par with what you'd have pitched for the original brew, because it'll be dealing with a nutrient and food depleted environment surrounded by alcohol.

The problem is I need to pitch at full kreuzen, so I won't be making a gallon starter as I don't want to dilute the beer that much. I'll likely go 2 quarts. I have tasted it (I always drink the hydrometer sample) and it is underattenuated when compared to the real thing.

joety said:

Unfortunately mine only dropped to 1031 after four weeks after starting at 1105. If anyone has any ideas on how to further attenuate it, let me know. I may start by insulating my heat box and see how hot I can get it.

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I might douse that sucker with some champagne yeast. I havent ever brewed something with a titanic OG like that, but if you do get say 85% attenuation, you should get around 1.017-1.018. What is your target and what was your mash temp. I would think drying out something that big would require a mash around 147 degrees...

He probably figured it out by now

I brewed a BDSA with a similar OG and FG and it's a little sweet too. I think that it's a combination of the alcohol flavors with the esters/phenols produced by the yeast.

1.010 shouldn't be a sweet tasting beer based on gravity. It's sweet becuase of the use of the crystal malts. I added 1# of Crystal 10L to my Tripel which fermented down to 1.007 and it still tastes a bit sweet but still dry at the same time. It's a sweetness that'll still be there even if you ferment down to 1.000...Crystal man...

Like DP above though as well, higher levels of alcohol will be perceived as sweetness as well!

Same experience as the OP. Brewed a tripel with SG 1.083. It finished at a perfect 1.010. The beer still came out sweet tasting even using just 0.5lbs of crystal 10L. I can definitely taste a bit of alcohol hotness in my beer even though I fermented at 60F the entire time. Unlike some well made examples of the style that hide their alcohol a bit, mine is pretty obvious.

So if I recap this thread, people seem to think the perceived sweetness could come from three possible sources: use of crystal malts, high alcohol content and the yeast strand (westmalle) phenolic profile.

Here's the grain bill I used.

11.00 lbs Belgian Pilsner Malt
1.00 lbs Malted Wheat
0.60 lbs Brown Malt (wanted to use 30L amber malt but got duped in buying this instead)
0.50 lbs Crystal 10L
2.00 lbs Turbinado sugar

So the question is, if I want to reduce the sweetness of my next attempt at this beer, what should I try first? Switch yeast strand? Nix crystal and mash a degree or two higher to compensate attenuation?

I just cracked a 6 month old extract based Belgian Dubbel. Recipe made to 13L, about 6.9% abv:

1 x Thomas Coopers Pilsener
250mL Belgian Dark Candii Syrup
500g Dextrose/Maltodex mix
Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Grav Yeast

It tastes fantastic, 'sweet' when first put in the mouth but finishes dry. I figure the 'sweetness' comes from the unfermentable caramel compounds in the candii syrup. Alcohol is very well hidden, a great balanced beer. Fermented 18-20degC, the esters are there but not over the top.