LHBS prices vs buying online

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OrdinaryAvgGuy

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Last night, I went out and purchased brewing ingredients for my next three batches.

Being the tightwad that I am, I decided to compare the prices that I just paid locally to two popular websites - Northern Brewer and Morebeer.

While comparing, I took into account local taxes for the LHBS and shipping charges for online orders. Here are the results for my shopping list. (the prices reflect different quantities. For instance, I may have purchased a couple ounces of one hops and only one ounce of another)
comparison-58031.jpg


Conclusion, The LHBS is 12% more expensive than NB and NB is 26% more than Morebeer.

In other words, More beer is 42% cheaper than my LHBS, considering all factors. (In addition, I don't hafta drive 15 miles to take it in the A)

On a side note, it was much cheaper to buy my bulk american 2 row locally, only because the shipping costs of 50#

Anyone else do a similar comparison with other eCommerce sites? Any better ones out there?

I understand that the 42% difference between the LHBS and Moore beer is due mostly to additional overhead costs but as a craft beer consumer on a malt liquor budget, buying online only makes sense to me.
 
Despite that in my opinion you should support local business.
Having a friend locally can save you and be very rewarding. Plus paying for shipping is a *****.
 
I kick this around.
It's 2 1/2 hours to my "local" homebrew store so there are other factors for me.
I'm in the city where the store is one to three times a month, so if things work out on the weekend, I can make it there but it is another factor.

One more ting to think about is if you don't buy bulk amounts, the local brew store will sell you 1 lb, 2 oz of a grain weighed out.
The online places don't sell in less than even pounds.

As soon as I get my mill though, I think I am going to get most grain online.
The "local" guy has a fair selection but I don't have it memorized and I don't always think to email in advance to check so sometimes I get there and they don't have what I want.

I'm not a master brewer so trying to figure substitutions on the fly isn't something that I want to do.
Online I can make a list, order what I need from whoever stocks what I want.
 
My LHBS is pretty close on pricing to online for common items like ingredients and basic equipment. The shop is near me and I get honest opinions on samples I share. That said, I save lots of money on kegging equipment and bulk hops by shopping online.
 
Despite that in my opinion you should support local business.
Having a friend locally can save you and be very rewarding. Plus paying for shipping is a *****.

IMHO, supporting local is about the same as the government subsidizing Amtrak. Local shopping is a dying breed as eCommerce sites can deliver the goods for much less.

Even with the cost of shipping, the overall price (when you make a large order) is much less when compared to the local price.

As the diehard anti-technology crowd dies off, brick and mortar stores will be a thing of the past.
 
I did a similar comparison between NB and Midwest Supplies and pretty much came to the same conclusion. I still buy my grains at the LHBS, especially since I can buy a bulk card and then just pick up the grain when I need it. I got frustrated buying hops there though because they always seemed to be missing at least one of what I was looking for. I have just started buying hops online and storing them at home. Not to mention the guy at the LHBS is a bit of an ahole
 
IMHO, supporting local is about the same as the government subsidizing Amtrak. Local shopping is a dying breed as eCommerce sites can deliver the goods for much less.

Even with the cost of shipping, the overall price (when you make a large order) is much less when compared to the local price.

As the diehard anti-technology crowd dies off, brick and mortar stores will be a thing of the past.

I don't agree.
Buying local supports your community with jobs.
Every dollar spend local makes it's rounds through the local community several times.
When that dollar is making it's rounds, it may come back to where you work and help keep you employed.
It's the same theory as buying American made products.

When we get to the point of ecommerce taking over, you won't be able to shop local.
When you need another vial of yeast, there will be no place local to buy it. Same will go with a T.V. or a pair of shoes.

I do think however that the local guys have to do their part.
Sometimes the attitude of I'm the only game in town causes price gouging. If they don't play fair, I don't feel the need to support them.

With the volume of sales and the overhead of a brick and mortar store, your local store isn't charging in excess.
They probably eek out a living at what they charge.
They will also be there if you need something and don't want to wait a week or pay huge costs to get it in two days.
 
I only have one LHBS in town and he is much cheaper that buying online. Problem is catching him when he is open since it is run out of his garage.
 
I did a similar comparison between NB and Midwest Supplies and pretty much came to the same conclusion. I still buy my grains at the LHBS, especially since I can buy a bulk card and then just pick up the grain when I need it. I got frustrated buying hops there though because they always seemed to be missing at least one of what I was looking for. I have just started buying hops online and storing them at home. Not to mention the guy at the LHBS is a bit of an ahole

I agree. Yet another problem with B&M stores. They seem to have a difficult time keeping items in stock. Not to say that this isn't an issue online but appears to be more common locally.

As far as the LHBS guy being an ahole, I couldn't agree with you more. I visited my store 2 times and the ones that I encountered were some cocky SOB's that believe they know everything about making a beer and looked down on the newcomer.

I rather save money & time by ordering online and as for friendly advice, I turn to Home Brew Talk ONLINE.

BTW have I ever said that you guys are awesome?
 
It would be interesting to do this with the big 4. Northern,Midwest,Austin and Morebeer.
 
Then again, if you realize on brew day that you forgot to order something and your LHBS went out of business due to online competition you can't just hop over and get what you need.

I do try to support my LHBS but I wont lie, I participate in group buys and buy online occasionally when I want something that the LHBS doesn't stock.

Full disclosure, I work part time (Saturdays only) at my LHBS so I do benefit from an employee discount.
 
I support local whenever possible, but for selfish reasons. I like having the ability to run out and get a missing ingredient. If he goes out of business, I would hate to rely on internet only. If something is majorly overpriced, I will purchase online (brew kettles, burners, etc), however, I do feel good helping him keep his store viable. It's a win-win for both of us.

Our LHBS near me has very competitive prices, and he gives a 10% discount to members of AHA. He holds classes, answers questions, and provides excellent guidance. I don't mind paying a little more to have quick access to good service.

(Props to Brewmeister in Roseville/Folsom - Great LHBS)
 
Yeah, your LHBS is definitely gouging. I also compared my LHBS with NB. All-grain, build-your-own recipes, were slightly cheaper than NB but NB kits were the cheapest route.
 
I don't agree.
Buying local supports your community with jobs.
Every dollar spend local makes it's rounds through the local community several times.
When that dollar is making it's rounds, it may come back to where you work and help keep you employed.
It's the same theory as buying American made products.

When we get to the point of ecommerce taking over, you won't be able to shop local.
When you need another vial of yeast, there will be no place local to buy it. Same will go with a T.V. or a pair of shoes.

I do think however that the local guys have to do their part.
Sometimes the attitude of I'm the only game in town causes price gouging. If they don't play fair, I don't feel the need to support them.

With the volume of sales and the overhead of a brick and mortar store, your local store isn't charging in excess.
They probably eek out a living at what they charge.
They will also be there if you need something and don't want to wait a week or pay huge costs to get it in two days.

I can't argue there. Supporting local business does come full circle.

However, we are undoubtedly headed in the direction of majority eCommerce. Its only a matter of years..

Walmart is so successful because they were able to cut cost (arguably unethical) delivering the goods at a lower cost than the competition. In the end, the giant retailer has driven out thousands of local stores. Online shopping is the new Walmart and may even take out wally world one day.
 
As the diehard anti-technology crowd dies off, brick and mortar stores will be a thing of the past.

What scares me is that you might be right about this.

When it happens, the economy will begin to crumble.
Retail is a huge part of the economy and when you get rid of the jobs associated with it, the tax the stores pay ( beyond sales tax ), the tax the jobs create, the development and realestate sales loss, the garbage collection, the electrical use and on and on, you lost a ton of money in the community.
When those jobs and fees are eliminated, there are less people with money in their pocket so everything else, right down to McDonalds has lost customers and so some of those begin to go away.
A chain reaction is started and there are few jobs left.

Even someone like me pays.
I'm a surveyor so you can't outsource my job, can't mail order it either.
If people in my community aren't working, they aren't calling me.
 
...
One more ting to think about is if you don't buy bulk amounts, the local brew store will sell you 1 lb, 2 oz of a grain weighed out.
The online places don't sell in less than even pounds.
...

Some online places sell by the ounce, and my LHBS doesn't package in store so we only sell in pre-packages 1#/10#/full sack sizes. For the volume of business we do keeping a scale and paying the state for annual inspections/certification of it is too expensive.

As before... Full disclosure I work there part time.
 
I don't mind paying the LHBS a "few" extra bucks in most cases, but it really depends on how much of a difference in price we're talking about. For example, I needed some bottles a few weeks ago. I bought a case at the LHBS for about $3 more than I could have gotten them on line, plus I didn't have to wait a week for shipping. So if it's just a single purchase like that I'll pay the extra for the sake of convenience. However, if I'm placing a large order and plan ahead, $23 is $23 and I'll buy on line.

In my area I have 3-4 LHBS's. One of them is pretty reasonable and I will do the bulk of my buying from them. I stopped in a different LHBS yesterday and was shocked to see them charging $180 for the same grain mill I can get online for $120. I'm all for supporting the local economy, but I'm more for not giving $60 away just for the sake of doing so.

As for the argument of a dollar spent in the local economy makes it's rounds through several times over, well the $60 I can save on a grain mill by buying online can then be spent at local merchants that actually offer me a fair deal ;)
 
What scares me is that you might be right about this.

When it happens, the economy will begin to crumble.
Retail is a huge part of the economy and when you get rid of the jobs associated with it, the tax the stores pay ( beyond sales tax ), the tax the jobs create, the development and realestate sales loss, the garbage collection, the electrical use and on and on, you lost a ton of money in the community.
When those jobs and fees are eliminated, there are less people with money in their pocket so everything else, right down to McDonalds has lost customers and so some of those begin to go away.
A chain reaction is started and there are few jobs left.

Even someone like me pays.
I'm a surveyor so you can't outsource my job, can't mail order it either.
If people in my community aren't working, they aren't calling me.

Couldn't agree with you more. It will have a trickle down effect but it is inevitable.
 
I don't mind paying the LHBS a "few" extra bucks in most cases, but it really depends on how much of a difference in price we're talking about. For example, I needed some bottles a few weeks ago. I bought a case at the LHBS for about $3 more than I could have gotten them on line, plus I didn't have to wait a week for shipping. So if it's just a single purchase like that I'll pay the extra for the sake of convenience. However, if I'm placing a large order and plan ahead, $23 is $23 and I'll buy on line.

In my area I have 3-4 LHBS's. One of them is pretty reasonable and I will do the bulk of my buying from them. I stopped in a different LHBS yesterday and was shocked to see them charging $180 for the same grain mill I can get online for $120. I'm all for supporting the local economy, but I'm more for not giving $60 away just for the sake of doing so.

As for the argument of a dollar spent in the local economy makes it's rounds through several times over, well the $60 I can save on a grain mill by buying online can then be spent at local merchants that actually offer me a fair deal ;)

Agreed. Despite my retail opposition, I will still use them for items that I forgot to order or need now. This is until they disappear...

Buying exclusively online will of course require that you do a bit more planning ahead.
 
Then again, if you realize on brew day that you forgot to order something and your LHBS went out of business due to online competition you can't just hop over and get what you need.

I do try to support my LHBS but I wont lie, I participate in group buys and buy online occasionally when I want something that the LHBS doesn't stock.

Full disclosure, I work part time (Saturdays only) at my LHBS so I do benefit from an employee discount.

I try and get things through my local brew store. I even see if they can order something that they don't have.
I'm still waiting on a mill and I'm about to give up on them though.

I buy online a little more simply because the store is 2 1/2 hours from me.
In my old truck, that's a lot of money in gas if I'm not going there in the first place.

I still want to support them though. They are good people, their prices are fair when you factor everything in, and having the store present is good for the hobby.
 
Agreed. Despite my retail opposition, I will still use them for items that I forgot to order or need now. This is until they disappear...

Buying exclusively online will of course require that you do a bit more planning ahead.

Even though we don't agree and I feel that it's an easy thing to save the local stores, just use them!, I think you are probably a pretty good guy.

Your name on here suggests you are a Joe Walsh fan? Post Eagles?
 
Reading this thread I can't help to feel guilty not supporting my LHBS all the time. I have two LHBS near me, both with okay prices. Maybe I am too cheap but I can't bring myself to pay extra for certain supplies or equipment when I can get it way cheaper online. I like to buy my base malts in group buys, hops in bulk online and if I need any specialty malts, yeast, etc. I go to LHBS. I think it is a good compromise.

Not too long ago I e-mailed one of the LHBS I frequent often asking if I could buy bulk grain from them and I go no reply. I wonder if they are mad at me for asking. It just makes sense that they should offer a bulk card or something for those of us who brew a lot.
 
I enjoy the fact that Leon will recognize my phone number and say "hi Bill" When I call. He also has tons of beer on tap that he is more than willing to share and did I mention he is much cheaper than online.

I hate ordering anything online but I guess I am a dying breed. I shop at the same stores all the time and I like knowing the people I am giving my to. I do not buy music or books online but rather visit the stores.

Oh bother I guess since I am sure it is going to end up online for everything anyway. I just hope it is after my time since I think so much of life is lost when you lose the personal touch of dealing with people in person
 
I feel fortunate, I have a lHBS less than a mile from my house he has competitive prices and almost every time I've done a comparison he is usually the same price or less than ordering online. I'll give him my business to keep him "local". He is just trying to earn a living like the rest of us.

He is only open on the weekends (but has met me there during the week if I really needed something) so I am in the habit of emailing him what I want for the upcoming week.

I also buy my grains in bulk so that helps cut costs. But I don't mind buying specialty grains, hops and yeast from there.
 
Post the quantities; I will do Midwest. Will check with one of my local stores as well.

Here ya go my friend. Anyone else want to join in on the fun?

white wheat 1 lb
belgian pils 3 lb
munich malt 1 lb
flaked wheat 5 lb
flake oats 1 lb
east kent 2 oz
orange peel 1 oz
coriander .5 oz
rice hulls 1 lb
wyeast 1 pk
120l 1 lb
40l 1 lb
roasted barley .5 lb
1084 1 pk
60l 1 lb
fuggles 2 oz
1098 1 pk
 
Even though we don't agree and I feel that it's an easy thing to save the local stores, just use them!, I think you are probably a pretty good guy.

Your name on here suggests you are a Joe Walsh fan? Post Eagles?

Yeah Walsh is a cool guy. Actually recently saw him in concert.
 
I am thinking of getting a credit card that offers cash back on grocery buys. Are there any online stores that label their items as "groceries."
 
I enjoy the fact that Leon will recognize my phone number and say "hi Bill" When I call. He also has tons of beer on tap that he is more than willing to share and did I mention he is much cheaper than online.

I hate ordering anything online but I guess I am a dying breed. I shop at the same stores all the time and I like knowing the people I am giving my to. I do not buy music or books online but rather visit the stores.

Oh bother I guess since I am sure it is going to end up online for everything anyway. I just hope it is after my time since I think so much of life is lost when you lose the personal touch of dealing with people in person

If I had a Leon that offered a decent price I would shop locally also. That's unfortunately not the case round here I guess.
 
Many many years ago, Joe used to DJ at a Seattle radio station and even drove their hydroplane race boat at the yearly race on lake Washington one or two times.

Cool guy.
 
I just did a small comparison. 2 extract kits, American amber and American IPA. Nothing added. Shipped.

Austin $77.00
Morebeer $64.45
 
I've done an analysis between AHS, Midwest and my LHBS before, and I tend to just order small amounts of grain and equipment online. I'm lucky enough to live in an area with three somewhat local shops (2 within 30 minutes, 1 a little more than an hour), and I find myself going to all three and ordering online. When buying things from an online retailer, I can usually toss in some of the more expensive and harder-to-find grains in an order without taking too much of a hit to the shipping cost, so it works out that way.

I do tend to buy most of my specialty grains (and some full recipes) from one shop in particular because he has bulk grains and doesn't force you to buy the full pound. He also has a loyalty program where if you buy enough you get 10% off for a year. Doing the analysis when factoring that in, plus tax, plus shipping for the online prices, it usually works out to a little bit more at the LHBS than it does to order online. So if I have the time to get out there, I'll usually throw it to the local guy.
 
Morebeer only gives you free shipping if you spend more than 59 bucks...

Yes, this is true. If you need one or two small things then going local may be the way to go. If you are going to brew a batch or 2, spending 60 dolla should be fairly easy.
 
I buy online a little more simply because the store is 2 1/2 hours from me.
In my old truck, that's a lot of money in gas if I'm not going there in the first place.

I probably wouldn't drive 5 hours round trip to a LHBS even if they gave me a FREE ingredient kit when I got there, and my car gets over 30 MPG. That's enough time and money on gas to buy ingredients and brew a batch.

Okay, I'm jealous. Wish we had a LHBS around here that has the selection and prices that morebeer has..

I really like the other local guys too but the lack of online inventory really puts them at a disadvantage. And if online stores evolve into the Amazon business model (move closer and closer to same day delivery) it WILL put most LHBS out of business IMO.
 
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