Question: Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison behavior

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EinGutesBier

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I've read in more than one place that Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison tends to get stuck after a brief, vigorous initial fermentation. I pitched a starter for my 3724 and the first day and a half it was damn vigorous, had a nice krausen, the whole nine yards. After that day and a half, though, the krausen subsided. All the while I tried to keep the temperature high, though I don't think it was necessarily high enough.

So I stepped things up by using a heating pad that runs without a safety shut-off. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80s in that fermenter - it's easy to tell because of temperature and moisture-saturation of the air when I peeked in the fermenter quick. After doing this, there was a nice "carpet" of bubbles and foam on the surface, but no resurrected krausen. Obviously, it comes down to the gravity reading, but have I done just about everything I can to keep this fermentation on track?
 
I'm keeping the heat going. Hopefully that's the right thing to do. Somehow I think it should be ok - just wanted to check first.
 
Not with that yeast, but I did have my Saison stall at 1.017 with the WLP568 Seasonal "Saison Ale Blend". I roused the yeast a couple times, brought temps up, nothing. I finally had to pitch it onto a Forbidden Fruit cake to get it to finish.

Which is what I'd recommend to anyone who has something like this stall high...pitch onto another cake if you can. Most of your yeast flavor production has finished by that point anyway, and I don't notice anything from the FF in the final product.
 
Evan! said:
Not with that yeast, but I did have my Saison stall at 1.017 with the WLP568 Seasonal "Saison Ale Blend".
Click to expand...


Same thing happend on my saison (1.017 and same yeast). I racked it to secondary for w few weeks and bottled. I cracked one open for the first time last weekend and it was GREAT!
 
Interesting. Yeah mine hit 1.035 and stalled, just like the label said :D. It is not really stuck, just very very slow. As long as it keeps-on-keepin-on I'll prolly let er go. If it completely stalls, off to another cake :D.
 
EinGutes, did you get any really odd Phenolics off this yeast? I let the temp ride up into the high 80's and I got a weird result. It seems to be dissipating, maybe the beer wasn't ready, but for a while I was getting really worried. I hope it completely goes away, that strangeness that is.
 
This is an old post but....
I have a Saison using 3724.
Pitched at 70'F
Warmed up to 80's over first couple days.
Kept about 88'F in warm water bath
7 days gravity was 1.045
15 days gravity was 1.042
Trying to decide if I should just sit and wait, transfer to secondary to reduce autolysis,
and/ or add a second yeast.

I made a similar saison under similair conditions but used WL565 & WL 568 and then added S-05 after 4 days. Went to 1.012 in 15 days, then eventually to 1.006 after 5 more weeks. I wanted to keep this one 100% 3724 (Dupont).

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!
 
I have the same question? Is it best to just let this sit or should it be transferred to a secondary?
When transferring to a secondary, will I leave too much of the yeast behind for it to finish?
 
Sorry guys, just stumbled on this thread. I'm doing a saison and using that yeast. Its my second batch and the second time the yeast has lagged on me. First time, it stuck around 1.020 and I used some dry champagne yeast and the baby went down to 1.002. This time, in addition to being my 2nd all grain batch, it stalled at 1.030. I was surprised, especially since it blew off within 5 hours! So. I checked in Farmhouse Ales by Markowski (from Southampton Publick House). He states that it can stall at any temps below 75F, but it will still work, albeit at an excruciatingly slow pace...Sometimes up to six damn weeks! He suggests adding an increased amount of yeast nutrients (something I did not do), use a second strain-something like champagne yeast if you want to keep the flavor of the Dupont strain more up front, or just let it go. But if you let it go, after a week or two, rack off the yeast cake into a secondary to avoid autolysis. I've racked off mine after 6 days. I'm going to let it go for weeks if I have to, just to see if it can indeed do it. Definitely doing the 80-90F range...
 
dougriddle said:
Sorry guys, just stumbled on this thread. I'm doing a saison and using that yeast. Its my second batch and the second time the yeast has lagged on me. First time, it stuck around 1.020 and I used some dry champagne yeast and the baby went down to 1.002. This time, in addition to being my 2nd all grain batch, it stalled at 1.030. I was surprised, especially since it blew off within 5 hours! So. I checked in Farmhouse Ales by Markowski (from Southampton Publick House). He states that it can stall at any temps below 75F, but it will still work, albeit at an excruciatingly slow pace...Sometimes up to six damn weeks! He suggests adding an increased amount of yeast nutrients (something I did not do), use a second strain-something like champagne yeast if you want to keep the flavor of the Dupont strain more up front, or just let it go. But if you let it go, after a week or two, rack off the yeast cake into a secondary to avoid autolysis. I've racked off mine after 6 days. I'm going to let it go for weeks if I have to, just to see if it can indeed do it. Definitely doing the 80-90F range...
Click to expand...

I one this is an old thread but people are always wondering what's going on when they use 3724. This is terrible advice. Never rack 3724 off the yeast cake in 2 weeks. Why? 2 reasons: 1) you arent going to have autolysis and 2) this strain will finish if you keep it warm but it will take 4-6 weeks depending on your OG. NEVER take a slow working yeast off the cake unless you want to guarantee yourself a stalled fermentation.
 
mhenry41h said:
I one this is an old thread but people are always wondering what's going on when they use 3724. This is terrible advice. Never rack 3724 off the yeast cake in 2 weeks. Why? 2 reasons: 1) you arent going to have autolysis and 2) this strain will finish if you keep it warm but it will take 4-6 weeks depending on your OG. NEVER take a slow working yeast off the cake unless you want to guarantee yourself a stalled fermentation.
Click to expand...

Guaranteed stall? It finished at 1.006. It sat idle in secondary for 4 weeks, then started doing its thing. Its not 1.002, but 1.006 is hardly a failure. Tasted great too!
 
I'm glad but I think you got lucky! 3724 is worth the wait isn't it? I shouldn't have said "guaranteed stall," but the odds of success go way down if you pull it in that short of time, plus it takes wY longer
 
would adding yeast nutrient at stall increase the speed of fermentation? if so which would you use?
 
I'm not sure if yeast nutrient works that way. I always thought it was like an appetizer before a meal, to whet the appetite, if you will. I always add nutrient close to the end of the boil.
 
Yeast nutrient won't make any difference although I use it religiously when home brewing pilot batches.

Again, the key to success with 3724 is to ramp it up into the 90's and keep it there for the duration. I just kegged a batch today that went from 1.076 to 1.006 in a little over 3 weeks which is an insane attenuation rate. Once you learn to control this beast of a yeast you will love it because there is nothing else like it from a flavor profile...
 
Just tasted my "wheat saison" made with 3724 and it has some cool flavors and nice carb after a week in the bottle. Key to fermentation was the hot AZ temps. Left my bucket in the garage and it was hitting 95 consistently outside. Three weeks and racked at 1.007.
 
MattzKauf said:
Just tasted my "wheat saison" made with 3724 and it has some cool flavors and nice carb after a week in the bottle. Key to fermentation was the hot AZ temps. Left my bucket in the garage and it was hitting 95 consistently outside. Three weeks and racked at 1.007.
Click to expand...

Did you leave it out there at night as well? We're hitting low 90's during the day but around 70 degrees at night. Just wondering if the temperature swings will hurt it? I've been keeping my house pretty hot, so my closet is staying right around 80 where my fermenter is.
 
On nights it would be in the 60's I took it inside. I left it in the garage for anything in the 70's at night.
 
5/22 OG was 1.060, 5/28 1.030, 6/4 1.012. How far do you think it will go? should I stop it by cold crashing at any point to maintain body?
 
Another old bump, looks like I found a solution to my slow fermenting ginger hibiscus saison. It's been two weeks and has only gone from 1.050 ( + or - ) to 1.025. Sounds like I should put it in my hot Texas garage to get temps up. Temperature has been around 75 degrees in my kitchen ( it's been wrapped in a towel ). I didn't read up on the yeast before using it, only read what temps AHS recommended to ferment at.
 
danielc409 said:
Another old bump, looks like I found a solution to my slow fermenting ginger hibiscus saison. It's been two weeks and has only gone from 1.050 ( + or - ) to 1.025. Sounds like I should put it in my hot Texas garage to get temps up. Temperature has been around 75 degrees in my kitchen ( it's been wrapped in a towel ). I didn't read up on the yeast before using it, only read what temps AHS recommended to ferment at.
Click to expand...

I brewed that same recipe from AHS last night and left the carboy out of the ferm. fridge overnight. I woke up this morning to a nice krausen and put it in the fridge (at 70F) since the carboy was at 82F. This afternoon I noticed the krausen had already begun to fall!! (carboy temp dropped to 73F) so I got worried and did some research here on HBT.

Thanks for all the advice guys!! Really helped me out this time
 
I also just brewed with 3724 (last weekend), and three days into fermentation the airlock stopped bubbling (@68 degrees). I just bought a wrap heater last night, threw it on my fermenter, and woke up this morning to lots of nice bubbling from the air lock. Last night I also bought Wyeast 3711 just in case the heat didn't work, so now my next brew will be a french saison. :)
 
FWIW wyeast lists ferm temps at 85 and up. Basically keep it hot and it chug along
 
Old bump for great justice.

I too have brewed a saison with this yeast. It's been 3 days and there is no real krausen to speak of. Bubbles... airlock bubbles too... but nothing like previous ales. It's fermenting in the high 70's. Am I going to need a heat wrap?
 

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