How to build a control panel (part 1)

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Just wanted to chime in again and say:
I hate you Kal...

I now have all but 1 item, which apparently is coming from China on foot.

The fact that I can't just sit down and build it since this piece is on the back electrical board and I don't want to attach anything till I lay them out...is driving me nuts.


So Kal, I totally blame my slipping insanity on you and your most excellent site.




Oh George from the sign place says he is glad your tags worked for you and thanks for directing him some business...
 
Just wanted to chime in again and say:
I hate you Kal...

I now have all but 1 item, which apparently is coming from China on foot.

The fact that I can't just sit down and build it since this piece is on the back electrical board and I don't want to attach anything till I lay them out...is driving me nuts.


So Kal, I totally blame my slipping insanity on you and your most excellent site.




Oh George from the sign place says he is glad your tags worked for you and thanks for directing him some business...


I am in the same exact boat...items are rolling in from China everyday. I made a mistake and need to order a couple more items. But the box and parts are laying on my floor (waiting for wife to yell). I just want to wire her up!
 
I am in the same exact boat...items are rolling in from China everyday. I made a mistake and need to order a couple more items. But the box and parts are laying on my floor (waiting for wife to yell). I just want to wire her up!

She will probably just yell more after you wire her up.
 
Let me know how it goes guys! Take lots of pictures!

The good news is, you shouldn't have any left over parts like me!

Update: I have a part coming in too... It's to add an extra relay on the door for safety reasons. What it'll do is not allow the panel to be turned on if the element select switch or either of the pump switches is on. The good news is that wiring it in is easy (and optional). There'll be an "addendum" written up on the site.

This is the only part that I haven't liked about using the panel over the last year and half: That I have to mentally remind myself just to make sure those switches are "off" before turning it on - just to be safe.

The relay was $6.99, socket was $2.99. So it's not an expensive add-on.

Kal
 
Control Panel is taking shape. Have the holes cut out for the controls and the first primer coat on. Will post some images here. Gonna see where to put this build on the site so others may follow.

DSCN0454.JPG


DSCN0452.JPG
 
One last picture here...

DSCN0458.JPG


Gonna start wiring this thing up, but layed out the controls so I can stare at how cool it looks!
 
Very cool! I have this really weird sense of deja-vu....

I think you'll find the larger box easier to work in as well. My 16x16x8" box was certainly large enough but the larger the better...

Kal

P.S. You're missing one yellow 240V pilot light. ;)
 
Very cool! I have this really weird sense of deja-vu....

I think you'll find the larger box easier to work in as well. My 16x16x8" box was certainly large enough but the larger the better...

Kal

P.S. You're missing one yellow 240V pilot light. ;)

Yes! I had to re order the 2 yellow lights since I ordered the 120V ones. They would work, but I think its safer to use the 220V version so I know that both legs are off/on.
I knew I would goof on an order somewhere, no project can go perfectly smooth!
 
Yes! I had to re order the 2 yellow lights since I ordered the 120V ones. They would work, but I think its safer to use the 220V version so I know that both legs are off/on.
I knew I would goof on an order somewhere, no project can go perfectly smooth!
It may not have been you: There was a period of a few days when I had them listed as 120V lights instead of 240V by mistake. Oops!

Kal
 
What does everyone think of using this relay as a replacement for the power relay Kal's original plan? Its a bit cheaper and looks like it should work fine.
 
What does everyone think of using this relay as a replacement for the power relay Kal's original plan? Its a bit cheaper and looks like it should work fine.

Meets all the specs so it should work. The thing I don't like about those relays is:

(1) The wire connection points. I like nice screwdown points for a good connection. Important with higher currents.
(2) It's 100% potted so you can't see the contacts instead. After many years of use (probably 10+ the way I use them in my setup) you'll may get some carbon/corrosion build-up on the contacts. Having them exposed means you can clean 'em off to like new.

Kal
 
Meets all the specs so it should work. The thing I don't like about those relays is:

(1) The wire connection points. I like nice screwdown points for a good connection. Important with higher currents.
(2) It's 100% potted so you can't see the contacts instead. After many years of use (probably 10+ the way I use them in my setup) you'll may get some carbon/corrosion build-up on the contacts. Having them exposed means you can clean 'em off to like new.

Kal


Looks like this one addresses concern #1.
 
Hi guys,

I've added a new control panel article that details how to add a safe start interlock.

This safe start interlock only allows the control panel to power up if the pump and element switches are all in the OFF position. This interlock will also ensure that if power is ever cut, the pumps and elements will stay off until the operator turns them off and then resets the power.

Adding a safe start interlock to our control panel will avoid harming the pumps, heating elements, and the operator.

See: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-safe-start-interlock

Cheers!

Kal
 
Kal - Your posts and blog articles give me so much to shoot for. Even though I am a few years away from being to build a setup like yours, that hasn't stopped me from starting to warn the SWMBO it is coming. Sure, she laughs at me today... But still... Right? :eek:
 
The way to a woman's heart is through beer.... brew it and all will be forgiven!

Kal
 
Kal,
Great post and links. This is a perfect project for all Sparkies out there.
What was your approx. cost of the total install (controls, kettles, stand, etc.)?
Thanks!
 
Kal,
Great post and links. This is a perfect project for all Sparkies out there.
What was your approx. cost of the total install (controls, kettles, stand, etc.)?
Thanks!

Approx $5K. I'll be posting a breakdown in a FAQ online at the site hopefully soon. I have a bunch of it already written.

Kal
 
KAL, you sir are a brewer among men. Seriously though great write up as you have inspired me to go all electric with a control panel based off of yours. I have alot of reading to do to be on the safe side and even more sweet talking to do with the wife.

:mug:
 
Kal, if you didn't want to use the amp or voltage meters, you could leave out the shunt, doorbell transformers and DC power supply right?
 
KAL, you sir are a brewer among men. Seriously though great write up as you have inspired me to go all electric with a control panel based off of yours. I have alot of reading to do to be on the safe side and even more sweet talking to do with the wife.
Thanks! Hopefully your wife likes beer... that often works!

Kal, if you didn't want to use the amp or voltage meters, you could leave out the shunt, doorbell transformers and DC power supply right?
Yup!

Kal
 
Hi Kal,

First of all, great site you provided regarding the build. 200 hours to put together that site, my ass, it took you longer to do such an excellent job on the site! Okay, with that said, here is some feedback/questions:

Site feedback:
(1) Typo on Page 3 of Mash/Lauter Tun: "While and interesting concept we find that matching rates is very easy to do by hand using our two pumps."
Change to "an."

(2) SS Hopstopper link: It goes to "general" site. Update link to direct hopstopper part.

(3) Entire shopping list: Provide total parts list with quantities and links. EG - there are multiple sections with x-amount of male disconnects. It would be great to have a grand total.

Okay, hopefully you did not light your hair on fire and jump off a bridge! The site IS excellent.

Now, to the question portion:

(1) How do the cork matts hold up to the boil kettle? Do you use multiple cork matts under that kettle?

(2) Have you step-mashed using this system? How well does it perform?

(3) Have you run multiple batches? So, when you are boiling, you also have one going through the Mash cycle.

(4) Based on (3), if you are running multi-batches, wouldn't be better if you had two timers - one for the boiling and one for the mash? Link up the alarm/switches as appropriate.
 
Hi Kal,

First of all, great site you provided regarding the build. 200 hours to put together that site, my ass, it took you longer to do such an excellent job on the site!
That was for only the one control panel build article. I agree that the total is much, much higher. ;)

1) Typo on Page 3 of Mash/Lauter Tun: "While and interesting concept we find that matching rates is very easy to do by hand using our two pumps." Change to "an."]
Thanks! Fixed!

(2) SS Hopstopper link: It goes to "general" site. Update link to direct hopstopper part.
Done on purpose. I sometimes purposely just go to the landing page of a site as otherwise I'll end up having to fix URLs for the rest of my life as stores change. In this case, as you said, I point to http://www.ihomebrewsolutions.com/ and I hope users can figure out how to find it there.

(3) Entire shopping list: Provide total parts list with quantities and links. EG - there are multiple sections with x-amount of male disconnects. It would be great to have a grand total.
It's in the works. I'll have a master list parts page so that people don't have to go section by section. I'm working on the last few "build" articles and then that list will be published. Also working on an FAQ which (among other things) will provide some pricing breaking (the most common question that people email me about).

(1) How do the cork matts hold up to the boil kettle? Do you use multiple cork matts under that kettle?
Just fine. No issues at all after 30+ brews. I happen to use 4 small pads but you can pretty much use any size here. Silicone cookie sheets may even work.

(2) Have you step-mashed using this system? How well does it perform?
Not yet - it's on my todo list. I did do some timings in my last batch. I heated my strike water to 148F which was to be my actual mash temp. Mashed in and due to the colder grain, the temp of the mash dropped to 138F. Turned on the pumps and after exactly 9 minutes the temp had ramped from 138F to 148F. That's for a 12 gallon (post boil) batch. IMHO, that's pretty fast ramping.

(3) Have you run multiple batches? So, when you are boiling, you also have one going through the Mash cycle.
Nope. Can't do that since my power source is only 30A which is only enough to run one element plus pumps/etc. This was a conscious design choice on my part. I never brew 2 batches back to back.

(4) Based on (3), if you are running multi-batches, wouldn't be better if you had two timers - one for the boiling and one for the mash? Link up the alarm/switches as appropriate.
Probably would, but I dont run multi-batches. IMHO, I'd rather do 2 batches over 2 days anyway. But that's just me.

Kal
 
Well, while we're critiquing Kal's amazing website, the one change I would like to see would be to have all the external links open in new windows. Right now, it seems to be a mixed bag where some do and others navigate away from his site right in the current window.
 
Well, while we're critiquing Kal's amazing website, the one change I would like to see would be to have all the external links open in new windows. Right now, it seems to be a mixed bag where some do and others navigate away from his site right in the current window.

Oops. I guess I wasn't very consistent with that. I'll start fixing it. Should take about an hour or so.

Kal
 
I'm working on the last few "build" articles


Dear god man...how much more of my money are you going to me spend :D


But seriously though...keep the excellence coming
And I'll keep buying stuff to mirror it in my home...granted via a fun house mirror cause I don't know how you made the inside of your CP so damn nice.

Seriously...I'm just glad I don't have to open mine often :mug:
 
Oops. I guess I wasn't very consistent with that. I'll start fixing it. Should take about an hour or so.
An hour?? I must be nuts. :) 3.5 hours later and I'm still only 1/2 way done. Sheesh!

Kal
 
Hey Kal,

Got a question for you:

I've just placed an order with McMaster Carr for pretty much everything you have used in your build (SS nut and silicon washer for RTDs, redot box enclosures, 3/4 NPT cord grips and such) and they've just sent me the following:

Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing complexity of United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only process orders from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this causes you.

Thank you,

David Ulam
McMaster-Carr Supply Co

Any tips for a fellow Canadian?
 
Hey Kal,

Got a question for you:

I've just placed an order with McMaster Carr for pretty much everything you have used in your build (SS nut and silicon washer for RTDs, redot box enclosures, 3/4 NPT cord grips and such) and they've just sent me the following:

Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing complexity of United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only process orders from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this causes you.

Thank you,

David Ulam
McMaster-Carr Supply Co

Any tips for a fellow Canadian?

Yup. That sucks. I got the same message ~2 years ago when I first placed my order... after researching for weeks! I was a bit stuck since there was really nowhere else I could get all these parts easily.

This is why on the build pages I write:

Some of these parts are nearly impossible to source elsewhere (we tried!) and unfortunately some sellers such as McMaster-Carr do not ship outside the USA. If you live outside the USA (like us), we recommend using a forwarding service such as PackageExpress.com. We've used them on numerous occasions to ship to Canada. The good news is that shipping within the USA is very inexpensive or often free. You then simply pay a small forwarded fee plus the cost of whatever shipping method you choose (USPS, FedEx, etc). We recommend USPS whenever possible to minimize duties/brokerage fees.

Kal
 
oops, my bad. I guess I skimmed that part in exitement to read the next ;)

Thanks a lot for the info!
 
Hi Kal, I'm back for more....

Regarding the methodology of wrapping the SS coil for the HLT, did you try wrapping it around a corny keg? The manual wrap method looks like a drag.

Looking forward to the "Using your Brewery" section which may answer the process & procedure of your system. Specifically, since I usually do 2-3 batches in a day, I run them simultaneously which saves about an hour per batch. I am thinking about adding another timer and separating the timing/alarm/etc. functions to the front and back end. Of course, I need to run a load calc to up the amps for the system. But, looks like it could be done, unless I am missing something?

I think that after my build, using your links, you will be able to put in that heated swimming pool you've always wanted. :mug:
 
Approx $5K. I'll be posting a breakdown in a FAQ online at the site hopefully soon. I have a bunch of it already written.

Kal
it should be noted that Kal spares no expense. The Timer, the stainless steel pump heads, the bilchmann kettles. You could easily shave off 1-2 grand if you tried.
 
it should be noted that Kal spares no expense. The Timer, the stainless steel pump heads, the bilchmann kettles. You could easily shave off 1-2 grand if you tried.

True, but I didn't (IMHO) spend money for no reason. When I spent money on something it was a conscious decision of price vs. quality/performance. The Blichmann kettles are a great example of this. Even if you *could* buy bare kettles and add on all the options to get to the same product, it would likely cost you the same amount. Problem is you can't do that. For example, I've yet to see any sight glasses as well designed and protected and easy to clean as the ones Blichmann uses. Had I used different kettles with sight glass added on later, I would have broken then 10x over by now banging around the kettles as every aftermarket solution gives you something completely unprotected. Kettles are heavy!

The control panel parts are another good example. Industrial name brand PIDs start at $200 and go up from there. I used $40 Auber PIDs after weighing the pros and cons. Same with the lights and switches. My lights and switches are $2-4/each. Name brand industrial ones from Allen Bradley or similar are $50+/each.

One thing's sure: When I weighed price vs performance vs safety, price was considered as the least important factor. My criteria was:

- 100% electric for indoor brewing
- Safe, easy, and enjoyable to use
- Not limit the brewer in any way
- Provide for extremely repeatable and consistent results

(Price is not listed).

That is the complete opposite of what most people do when they put together a brewing setup. For most, price is always the overriding priority and sacrifices have to be made. That's completely acceptable of course.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that if you start to change out parts or make changes, I think people need to realize that they'll affect the 4 criteria I mentioned above.

It's been nearly 2 years since I designed and built the setup. I'm happy to report that there's absolutely nothing I'd change if I had to do this all over again. Having brewed with it dozens and dozens of times, there's nothing I look at and go "gee, I should have done that differently...".

Definitely one way to shave costs is to use eBay to buy many of the parts. For example, the timer is $150 from the manufacturer's website. I bought the same one with a socket for $30 from eBay. This is why I always give eBay search links for most of the items or give alternatives for some of the more expensive items. You should always check eBay using the links... you never know!

Kal
 
For example, the timer is $150 from the manufacturer's website. I bought the same one with a socket for $30 from eBay

Thanks to your fantastic site, those go for $125+ on ebay now. You should charge those sellers a fee :mug:
 
I think I ninja'd just about every item off ebay the day each module went up to get the deals :)

Now some of them are 2x the price or higher. I know I got in a bidding war over a couple radio punches

Also to note: I hope to be done cutting all my pots this weekend and when I am, I'll be listing a "Kal's Electric Brewery Radio Punch Set" on eBay since I won't really need them anymore. (about $20 a punch will be the price...should cover most of my costs on them)

I think I have all three sizes needed...but I'm at work and can't check.
 
Okay, Kal, to keep this thread going and to give it a bump, I want to know how much stuff you blew up (or cooked) when you did the build?

And, Jay, knock it off with going on an ebay hunt! Save some for the rest of us.:cool:
 
Okay, Kal, to keep this thread going and to give it a bump, I want to know how much stuff you blew up (or cooked) when you did the build?

I blew up the amp and volt meter. The documentation in it was incorrect and said that I could use the same power supply for both so I did. I fried 'em. After they were fried I brought out the voltmeter and noticed that one of the AC inputs on the volt meter was tied to the DC GND (!!) so it was obvious that couldn't be done. I argued the point with the manufacturer and they sent me replacements. FWIW, I just checked the manual again for and they still haven't fixed it. (Sheesh).

On my site I said:

"Because of the way this particular volt meter is designed (one of the AC inputs is tied to the DC ground), separate power supplies and transformers must be used in order to isolate the meters from each other. Trying to use one power supply and transformer to power both meters will destroy the meters. (Ask us how we know how!)."

I also broke one of the switch bodies when I overtightened the screw way too much. Had to replace that.

I did originally buy different switches and a different timer. Didn't like them so I bought different ones.

Oh yeah, I also bought incandescent status lights originally instead of the LED ones. The incandescent ones looked like crap (hard to tell when they were on).

So there's a lot of stuff in the control panel I bought twice.

For the various stainless shims, washers and silicone washers from McMaster Carr, I also purchased about twice as many as I needed as it was really hard to tell what the right size was without physically having them in my hands and testing them out. So I bought about 2-3 times as many parts there and ran various tests. What you see on the site are the parts that work best.

In the end it wasn't that bad. Maybe $200 worth of extras I never used (or fried :)).

I did also buy a drill press (never had one and never had a good excuse to buy one). That make the work easier. Hole punches were purchased too. I had pretty much all the other tools already.

Kal
 
I think I ninja'd just about every item off ebay the day each module went up to get the deals :)

Now some of them are 2x the price or higher. I know I got in a bidding war over a couple radio punches

Also to note: I hope to be done cutting all my pots this weekend and when I am, I'll be listing a "Kal's Electric Brewery Radio Punch Set" on eBay since I won't really need them anymore. (about $20 a punch will be the price...should cover most of my costs on them)

I think I have all three sizes needed...but I'm at work and can't check.

Why don't we as a community keep these needed punches circulating on here and sell them from one builder to the next, pay it forward, and rent them from each other for a set cost, use flat rate shipping via USPS and just circulate them around via this site...just a thought...I will need them in the late Winter/Early Spring LOL
 
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