Does a wort really need to rest before cooling?

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sideshow_ben

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Hi all. I generally add a bag or two of spring-water ice to the wort right at the end of my boil, and then filter it through a sieve as I pour it into the carboy, mixing with cold water to reach pitching temperature. A number of books and websites seem to advocate letting the hot wort sit for 20-30 min before cooling it down (i.e. immersion chiller), or to slowly cool it down in a cold-water bath. I can see one reason being to let all the gunk settle to the bottom of the tun.
I'm curious if there is any other benefit to this long "rest," such as enhancing flavors, or if it can be skipped.

I searched around on this forum but didn't find such a thread. I am sorry if this is a duplicate.

Thanks! -ben
 
You know, I noticed Sam Caglione recommended the same thing for most of the recipes in Extreme Brewing. Basically, turn off heat, whirlpool, let sit for 10 minutes, then cool. I imagine it has to do with the cold break, but i would think then you'd let it sit AFTER the cooling.
 
From what I have read and heard you want to cool your wort as quickly as possible. The faster you cool it, the less time there is for DMS to form. The only advantage to "resting" might be to let hop matter and other particles suspended in the wort to settle out (helped by whirlpooling as mentioned by passedpawn). Otherwise, I believe cooling it to pitching temp ASAP is the way to go...
 
You know, I noticed Sam Caglione recommended the same thing for most of the recipes in Extreme Brewing. Basically, turn off heat, whirlpool, let sit for 10 minutes, then cool. I imagine it has to do with the cold break, but i would think then you'd let it sit AFTER the cooling.

I can see letting it sit if you're whirlpooling and using a CFC to give it time for thw whirlppol to be effective before draining through a chiller.

I can also see letting it sit a bit if using a flameout hop addition. Other wise, for me at least, it's, cut flame, turn on chilling water, start draining.
 
From what I have been reading you do want to cool it ASAP however letting it sit while still hot should be a non issue, 10-20 minutes just under boiling temp is still sterile.

I was just reading about pasteurising fruit jucies as I plan to juice my own plums this fall for wine. Food processing facilities heat the juice to 85C (185F) for 15 seconds and at home is it reccomended to heat to 70C (158F) for 1 minute. So if water boils at 100C (212F) (not sure about wort but it would be close) then surely sitting for 20 minutes will not get it below 70C (158F) unless it is really cold but then the contaminates would be dead if it was cold.
 
you can let it sit, if you like, but keep in mind that in certain hop schedules this will have a negative effect- ie your 15 minute hop addition suddenly became a 25 min because you let your hot wort sit after turning off the gas.
i would think that you wouldn't want to stir it when it's hot, due to the risk of hot side aeration...
i personally cool it asap with my ic, then whirlpool (well, i used to, now i have a hop strainer and ball valve). works perfectly.
 
I'd say letting it sit, hot, would produce a lot of DMS in the beer.

John Palmer says DMS is produced when the wort is over 170F, but it is removed even more quickly by the action of the boil. So, if your wort is over 170 and you are not boiling, that's bad.

This was in the DMS episode of the Brew Strong podcast.

Of course, I regurgitate what I've read/heard, without much personal proof.
 
A number of books and websites seem to advocate letting the hot wort sit for 20-30 min before cooling it down (i.e. immersion chiller), or to slowly cool it down in a cold-water bath.
I've never heard anybody advocating a "hot wort rest" before cooling. All the books I've ever read tell you to chill the wort down ASAP. I think you just simply misunderstood what they were saying.
That said, there is a growing movement amongst some home brewers who do not use any chilling methods, they simply let the wort sit and cool on it's own. That practise is a bit controversial though.
 
I have always read the faster you cool the wort the clearer the beer will be. I would also question adding the ice directly to the hot wort. Ice is not very sanitary. Even though you are adding at a temperature which will kill bacteria there is the possibility you are adding other contaminates such as dirt or minerals to the wort which could effect the flavor of the beer.
 
I can see letting it sit if you're whirlpooling and using a CFC to give it time for thw whirlppol to be effective before draining through a chiller.

That's what I was thinking. The recipe creators are used to using a CFC or a plate chiller and going directly into the fermenter and are gearing their instructions toward that. That's the only way whirlpooling right after the boil would make any sense since if you were using a IC you'd end up stirring up your little whirlpool pile anyway.
 
I've never heard anybody advocating a "hot wort rest" before cooling. All the books I've ever read tell you to chill the wort down ASAP. I think you just simply misunderstood what they were saying.
That said, there is a growing movement amongst some home brewers who do not use any chilling methods, they simply let the wort sit and cool on it's own. That practise is a bit controversial though.

As I said above, this process of letting it sit 15 or 20 minutes before cooling is listed quite clearly in many of the recipes in Extreme Brewing. The book is in front of me right now. It is odd.
 
I'd say letting it sit, hot, would produce a lot of DMS in the beer.

John Palmer says DMS is produced when the wort is over 170F, but it is removed even more quickly by the action of the boil. So, if your wort is over 170 and you are not boiling, that's bad.

This was in the DMS episode of the Brew Strong podcast.

Of course, I regurgitate what I've read/heard, without much personal proof.

For all but the lightest malt there is very little SMM after 60 minutes of boil, for pilsner malt there wouldn't be much after 90. For something like munich malt there isn't much to start with.

The bigger issue is that a lot of DMS evolves during ale fermentation, a lot less during lager fermentation. It is pretty much impossible to get DMS in an ale if you boil 60 minutes (see Fix Principles of Brewing Science).

It's actually kinda hard to get DMS in a lager if you are trying to replicate continental lagers.

Almost every commercial brewery whirlpools hot for 30 minutes. I dunno about you guys, but I've never tasted DMS in a domestic ale. You also get more hop aroma that way.

The notion that one ought to cool fast comes from the commercial world where fast means 2 hours vs 36 hours. Homebrewers want to do better because they can, but the benefits are probably marginal at best when you are talking about 2 hours vs 10 minutes.
 
The notion that one ought to cool fast comes from the commercial world where fast means 2 hours vs 36 hours. Homebrewers want to do better because they can, but the benefits are probably marginal at best when you are talking about 2 hours vs 10 minutes.

I always put the chiller (immersion) in the last 15" of the boil and as soon as I reach 0", put the hops, turn off the heat, and start the water flow, while I make the whirlpool. Am I wrong and I don´t need to do that in such a speedy way?
 
I always put the chiller (immersion) in the last 15" of the boil and as soon as I reach 0", put the hops, turn off the heat, and start the water flow, while I make the whirlpool. Am I wrong and I don´t need to do that in such a speedy way?

I'm not here to say you are wrong or right, you would get more hop aroma if you waited to turn on the chiller. If you think you need more hop aroma, either use more hops or let them stand hot longer.
 
I'm not here to say you are wrong or right, you would get more hop aroma if you waited to turn on the chiller. If you think you need more hop aroma, either use more hops or let them stand hot longer.

Oh. I´ve spent to much dry hop in my Amber Ale batches, cause the hop aroma never was as prominent as I desired. Will do another on next weekend and will wait to start to chill.
 
I'm not here to say you are wrong or right, you would get more hop aroma if you waited to turn on the chiller. If you think you need more hop aroma, either use more hops or let them stand hot longer.

My personal experience is that you get the best hop aroma by ensuring your late additions (and dry hops) stay cold, not hot. Dry-hopping cold, in the keg, gives the absolute best for me. And sending your wort through a hop back is second best (for me) where the hot wort passes through the hop bed and immediately gets chilled to pitching temperature on the other side of the hop bed. Those oils are very volatile so letting the late additions sit hot for longer is not what should give you the best hop aroma.
 
lately after my boil i wirlpool let the hot wort sit for 10-15 minutes then spry the top of the wort with starsan and spray a clean dry towel with starsan throw it over the pot and dont wory about it till the next night after it has cooled
 
That's what I was thinking. The recipe creators are used to using a CFC or a plate chiller and going directly into the fermenter and are gearing their instructions toward that. That's the only way whirlpooling right after the boil would make any sense since if you were using a IC you'd end up stirring up your little whirlpool pile anyway.

I second that. It only makes sense to let it rest for the particulates to settle. Getting that wort to the sanitized fermenter quickly should be the goal IMO.
 
I'm not here to say you are wrong or right, you would get more hop aroma if you waited to turn on the chiller. If you think you need more hop aroma, either use more hops or let them stand hot longer.

That doesn't make sense to me. Hop aroma is volatile, and the longer you let the aroma hops steep, the more aroma will be given off. Therefore, it would make more sense to me to cool as quickly as possible to keep the hop aroma.
 
I'd say letting it sit, hot, would produce a lot of DMS in the beer.

John Palmer says DMS is produced when the wort is over 170F, but it is removed even more quickly by the action of the boil. So, if your wort is over 170 and you are not boiling, that's bad.

This was in the DMS episode of the Brew Strong podcast.

Of course, I regurgitate what I've read/heard, without much personal proof.

I'm not well versed on DMS, but from what I thought I read somewhere, but later on in the mash the DMS precursors don't exist in a large enough quantity at the end of an hour-long boil to worry about it.

If I didn't read this somewhere, then I guess I dreamed it...
 
The DMS is reduced by half every 38 minutes of boil. So, after an hour boil, it should be reduced by ~70%. Is that a negligible amouint? No idea.

I've never had noticeable DMS in any beer I made, and I use Pilsner malt a lot. Maybe it's much ado about nothing, and maybe I just have been doing things right all along and that's why it hasn't been an issue. Dunno.
 
I've been using a cold water bath for years with my all grain batches (6 gal), I change the water about three times, and it takes about 35-40 minutes to get to pitching temps. Even with pilsner malts, no dms yet. I think this is somewhat like hot side aeration. Sounds bad, but you have to really fark with it to be noticable
 
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