Oktoberfest w/ Kolsch Yeast?

Hows this 10 gal PM sound? I was planning on using a yeast cake from a Dunkel I just did. Want to test this Kolsch yeast as much as possible.


Oktoberfest
Brew Type: Partial Mash
Date: 5/21/2011
Style: Oktoberfest/Marzen
Brewer: Kevin
Batch Size: 10.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 12.55 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Equipment: Brew Pot (15 Gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)
Actual Efficiency:
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 34.29 %
4.00 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 22.86 %
4.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 22.86 %
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 11.43 %
1.00 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 2.86 %
2.0 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 14.7 IBU
1.0 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (30 min) Hops 5.7 IBU
1.0 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
0 Pkgs Kolsch Yeast (Wyeast Labs #2565) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.055 SG (1.050-1.057 SG) Measured Original Gravity:
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.013 SG (1.012-1.016 SG) Measured Final Gravity:
Estimated Color: 11.5 SRM (7.0-14.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 22.9 IBU (20.0-28.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 16.8 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.42 % (4.80-5.70 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 7.97 %
Actual Calories: 318 cal/pint


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Full Body Mash Tun Weight: 6.00 lb
Mash Grain Weight: 11.50 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 9.70 gal Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 14.38 qt of water at 175.7 F 158.0 F 45 min
Mash Out Add 5.75 qt of water at 198.1 F 168.0 F 10 min


Mash Notes
Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage Carbonation Type: Corn Sugar Carbonation Volumes: 2.4 (2.5-2.8 vols)
Estimated Priming Weight: 7.6 oz Temperature at Bottling: 60.0 F
Primer Used: - Age for: 4.0 Weeks

I think the Kolsch yeast would do just fine. On my Oktoberfest I didn't have a 30 min addition of hops, just bittering and a 5 min addition. Just out of curiosity why do you have both Caravienne and the Caramunich?

WY2565 has a real distinctive flavor I don't find appropriate for anything but kolsch.

smakudwn said:

I think the Kolsch yeast would do just fine. On my Oktoberfest I didn't have a 30 min addition of hops, just bittering and a 5 min addition. Just out of curiosity why do you have both Caravienne and the Caramunich?

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Hmm good question. I think it was to get a bit more color. Do you think one would do better than the other?

Yeah I have been reading that lots of people will not use 30 minute additions. I may move some or all of that to the bittering addition.

Personally I would just use one or the other. Mine has just caramunich.

WY2565 does have a distinct flavor but I recently split a 10 gallon batch of Berliner Weisse. 5 gallons was fermented with 2565 and 5 gallons was fermented with 1007 (german ale). A side by side comparison of the two revealed to me that the kolsch yeast didn't leave any lasting flavors. Now this was a berliner weisse with lactobacillus in it so there are a lot of other characteristics in the beer. If you were to use kolsch yeast in an oktoberfest it may make it's presence known but I know a few members in my brew club that have used kolsch for oktoberfests, and altbiers, and they were all pleased with the end result.

Edit: for what it's worth, wyeast does not recommend Kolsch yeast for Oktoberfest style beers, but that could simply be because it isn't a lager yeast.

Yeah, the bugs in a Berliner weisse will wipe out any difference. WY2565 has a phenolic wineyness to it that I certainly wouldn't want anywhere near an Ofest.

Well maybe I will split this batch to see how the 2565 does compared to another ale yeast, since I dont have the capabilities to lager yet. What yeast should I try? I'd prefer to use dry since I have been trying to keep my total batch costs down as much as possible. Would S04 do better than Notty?

kpr121 said:

Well maybe I will split this batch to see how the 2565 does compared to another ale yeast, since I dont have the capabilities to lager yet. What yeast should I try? I'd prefer to use dry since I have been trying to keep my total batch costs down as much as possible. Would S04 do better than Notty?

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Neither one of those will make a credible Ofest. If you want to use dry yeast, go for US-05.

That kolsch strain is one of my favorites for a lot of styles. Dump the o fest on the yeast cake and see how it goes. While you may get a grape/white wine fruitiness...that strain tends to leave a crispness which will go well in an O fest. Ferment on the bottom of it's temperature scale.

No sense in listening to those who stifle creativity.

Denny said:

Neither one of those will make a credible Ofest. If you want to use dry yeast, go for US-05.

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I thought I would go US-04 since that is what Biermuncher uses for his OktoberFAST Ale.

But I also like the idea of the ferment you would get with S-05. I have an abundance of S-05 on hand already.

Maybe I will make sure to mash at a higher temp to keep the FG a little on the higher side, but reap the rewards of an S-05 clean ferment.

And then of course compare it to the 2565. I am in the state of mind that if it does not turn out to be a true Oktoberfest (I can't lager so I know it won't be the same no matter what), it will still end up being tasty and all my friends and family won't know the difference anyhow.

Thanks for the input guys. I think I will brew this tomorrow, getting rid of the Caravienne (and maybe bumping up the Caramunich), shifting the 30 minute hop addition to 60 min, and splitting the batch between S-05 and 2565.

I plan on fermenting both in the low 60's, probably a 4-5 week primary. Then I will keg and leave in the 'rator until September or so.

Creativity is always a good thing, but you need basis in fact for it to work.

Denny said:

Creativity is always a good thing, but you need basis in fact for it to work.

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Thanks for the constructive criticism. I'll let you know how my fictional oktoberfest turns out!

Dang said:

That kolsch strain is one of my favorites for a lot of styles. Dump the o fest on the yeast cake and see how it goes. While you may get a grape/white wine fruitiness...that strain tends to leave a crispness which will go well in an O fest. Ferment on the bottom of it's temperature scale.

No sense in listening to those who stifle creativity.

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I agree. Never hurts to try something new and you sound like you've had a lot of experience with that yeast.

kpr121 said:

And then of course compare it to the 2565. I am in the state of mind that if it does not turn out to be a true Oktoberfest (I can't lager so I know it won't be the same no matter what), it will still end up being tasty and all my friends and family won't know the difference anyhow.

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I really agree with this. My comments were based on keeping it as much like an Ofest as possible. If that's not a concern, you can use any yeast you like and see what happens.

BigBlue said:

I agree. Never hurts to try something new and you sound like you've had a lot of experience with that yeast.

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I wouldnt necessarily say alot of experience, but I've had enough that I know I don't want to just dump the cake down the drain once my currently fermenting Dunkel is done. The only commercial Dunkel I have had was Michelob and it was terrible. My version is delicious, maybe the best beer I've made yet.

I may even split the yeast and brew up another batch of Kolsch since the first 10 gallons is close to gone. I think the crispness after some lagering may do the Ofest some justice.

Let us know how it works out. You might be on to something here.

BigBlue said:

Let us know how it works out. You might be on to something here.

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I will. I havent tried a whole lot of commercial Ofests (maybe 4-5 different ones), so I will need to purchase a bunch to do some side-by-side testing. At least thats what I will tell the wife.

kpr121 said:

I will. I havent tried a whole lot of commercial Ofests (maybe 4-5 different ones), so I will need to purchase a bunch to do some side-by-side testing. At least thats what I will tell the wife.

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How did this go? I was planning on doing the same thing