Tell me if this sounds like a good idea.

Well I was sitting down watching tv with SWMBO this weekend and something popped into my head. I know in philadelphia you need a liscence to sell homebrew but what I have in mind is something a little different.

I was thinking of running a private service. Let's say I told all of my friends and family that if they wanted to buy any beer off of me that they can ask me to make whatever type of beer they want.

Lets say a family member wanted me to make them an octoberfest. I tell them to pay for the ingredients and I will make it but you have to pay me a labor fee. Lets say 10 bucks.

I understand partial mash and extract are a little more expensive then all grain. Not to mention instead of me ordering online I can goto LHBS and pick up all the ingredients unless they want something special which I would have to order online.

So in the long run the money I make can pay for iether new equiptment to expand or even pay for recipes for myself. If I go all grain I can easily up the labor a few bucks to make more money.

Sound like a good idea?? I was thinking making a list sort of like a menu and giving it to people to see how they react.

Legality aside, I guess its a good idea if your friends/family don't mind you soaking them for cash.

The question is: Do your family/friends like your beer enough to pay you for it? Keep in mind that when its free, people are naturally more complimentary. When they start having to pay for it, their standards may go up.

Another thing to consider is labor: Do you really think its worth your time to undertake this venture versus spending your free time doing something else? Its one thing to waste time because its your hobby and its another thing to have to get out and brew because Uncle Arnie wants his IPA ready in time for his retirement party.

A better idea would be to ask Uncle Arnie if he wants to split a batch....have Uncle Arnie throw in some cash for ingredients (maybe enough for the whole batch) and brew a double batch, and split it with him. You get beer, save some cash by maybe not having to buy ingredients, save that money for equipment upgrades. You also don't come off like a ****** trying to make cash off of your family/friends.

Just my 0.02.

I know that if you were to do this, you should not advertise it to the world in a public forum. As it still qualifies under the illegal side of the law.

You're selling beer. No go.

My boss really likes my Double Chocolate Oatmeal Snout so when she wants some, she pays for all the ingredients and then we split the batch. I get to brew for free, keep a case of the beer and she gets a case of good beer out of it for her trouble.

This was just something I was thinking about. I probrably won't ever actually do it. In the future though if someone wants to buy a case of beer from me I'll just tell them to buy me the ingredients and I will make it.

mosquitocontrol said:

I know that if you were to do this, you should not advertise it to the world in a public forum. As it still qualifies under the illegal side of the law.

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Not to mention that if it was me, I'd be making $2 an hour. It takes me about 5 hours from crushing the grain to cleanup. Also, you got propane, water, sanitizer, etc.

That's also good for the people who think of homebrew as "cheap/free beer". When you price out the ingredients for a batch for them, and then tell them it'll take you 6-8 weeks of work before it'll be ready, they start to respect the process a little more. And if they don't, then you know to cut 'em off.

Fry the beer in ravioli and then sell it to them then when they get home they drain the beer out of the ravioli and drink it!

Sorry, just trying to make a joke about the fried beer.

oh god. fried beer. saw that on tv recently and didnt know what to think... um YUCK! anyone had it? cant possibly be appetizing.

If its Family I dont see a problem because they arnt likely to nark on you. Its when you start going for "joe public" when you will run into legal issues.

Something to think about though, you can sometimes "trade" without money, I know places that do not have a full lisense but they will SELL you a local currancy (tokens) with which you can "trade" for beverages. Little legal loophole, could apply....could....check

I still don't see how that's legal. You're buying something that only has value in exchange for alcohol. I mean I guess if it works for you, hey great, but I doubt it's any more legal than just selling it outright.

Using your homebrew to barter for other goods/services is also illegal. Homebrew is for home consumption or depending on the laws of your state, for entering into homebrew contests/tasting only. You can not sell or barter your homebrew in any way without federal license & state approval. Better stick with the "splitting a batch" idea. Or don't tell anyone what you are doing and take your chances.

Maybe your friends and family might lose a $5 bill somewhere at your house while they are there and they steal a six pack from your fridge while you are not looking and you don't report it missing because after a night of drinking you forgot how much beer you actually had to begin with.

It sounds perfectly legal to me. For all intents and purposes, your customers are buying ingredients but paying you to pick it up from the store. As a bonus, they get a free case of beer! You are legally allowed to GIVE beer away.

The only flaw I see with this business model is that people love convenience and having to plan what kind of beer they want to drink in a month or two is a pain to those who don't brew it. We, as homebrewers, don't mind because we actually enjoy the process. Your average person isn't nearly interested enough to plan this out and order in advance.

DraperyFalls said:

It sounds perfectly legal to me. For all intents and purposes, your customers are buying ingredients but paying you to pick it up from the store. As a bonus, they get a free case of beer! You are legally allowed to GIVE beer away.

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Not in Georgia!
(a) A head of a household may produce 50 gallons of malt beverages in any one calendar year to be consumed within his or her own household without any requirement to be licensed for such purpose. No malt beverages produced under this subsection shall be sold or offered for sale.

mosquitocontrol said:

I know that if you were to do this, you should not advertise it to the world in a public forum. As it still qualifies under the illegal side of the law.

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Yup......On the largest alcohol producing discussion website on the planet that is more than likely monitered in some way or another by the TTB looking out for exactly this type of discussion.

Any form of EXCHANGE for homebrew is considered illegal under the 1978 repeal of the ban on homebrewing, H.R. 1337...unless of course you become licensed to do so, and pay taxes.

In fact Bartering of alcohol of any type is illegal, period, even for licensed retailers.

Trading or Bartering

The trading or bartering of alcoholic beverages for cash or in exchange for different alcoholic beverages by and between retail liquor dealers, in order that they may take advantage of special deals involving quantity discounts or free goods offered by wholesale liquor dealers, is not a bona fide loan of liquors described in Revenue Ruling 54-509 which outlines transactions constituting bona fide loans. Such trading or bartering constitutes sales for purpose of resale and engaging in this practice would subject the retail dealers to liability for special tax as wholesale liquor dealers and would necessitate the acquiring of basic permits as wholesale liquor dealers. This ruling relates only to the trading or bartering of merchandise between retailers after purchase thereof by one or more retailers individually, and not to the cooperative purchasing of alcoholic beverages by several retailers, dealt with in Revenue Ruling 56-204.

26 U.S.C. 5111; 27 CFR 194.28

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And if you are planning to do so, I wouldn't be discussing it on the largest homebrewing site on the web......

Whenever a thread like this, or someone trying to make money off homebrew for whatever reason, charity or otherwise, all these "armchair lawyers," come up with all the ways they think could be "get arounds" the law. Sorry kids, you can hypothesize all you want, but do you notice ever any actually attorneys with knowledge of the law ever coming up with some of this stuff? No.

Whether we agree with the laws or not. You can't loophole your way through this. The laws are pretty specific in regards to homebrewing- any medium of exchange, be it money or barter involving homebrew is illegal.

Remember homebrewing wasn't re-legalized after the Volstead act was repealed in 1933, it wasn't legalized until 1978, and it took a lot of work in those 45 years to get it to happen....and despite it's federal legalization, it is STILL on a State by State basis.

Wasn't it legalized in Utah JUST this very year?

Do a little reading on the history of prohibition and the legalizing of homebrewing, and maybe you'll quit the idiotic hypothisizing about trying to get around the law, and realize what a fine razors edge this hobby sits on to many folks.

Some folks still think you can go blind drinking homebrew.
Other's can't distinguish what we're doing with making meth.

Hell even some cops look on what we're doing with suspicion.

Don't believe me? Check out this Cops episode if you haven't already....look at what "John Law" has to say about our little hobby. "The concotion he was making could be deadly..."



Hell, if MADD gets ever gets their way the oldschool version of prohibition may be like a picnic, compared to what it would be like in modern times. You think they'd let us make anything? (HomeWine making was sort of legal during prohibition as long as you didn't sell)

Look what may be happening in Canada; DUI legislation may expand to allow random breathalyzer tests

No probable cause would be necessary to be forced to breath into a tube.

Quit thinking you can run around the law....if you really want to help, then try to change the laws....Write your congress people, better yet become a congressperson. But quit thinking you can scheme your way through this.

That's what doesn't help give us a good name.

Read this for some enlightenment...It was one of our members https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/ohio-university-homebrew-festival-shut-down-140105/#post1590903

Oh and;

I don't ever remember saying I was actually doing this at the moment or EVER doing it at all. It was an idea and I am not trying to make a profit. I thought it would be fun to expand the taste of my lovely home brewed beers to other people.

I did mention labor costs but like I said it is simply an idea.

Priemus said:

Something to think about though, you can sometimes "trade" without money, I know places that do not have a full lisense but they will SELL you a local currancy (tokens) with which you can "trade" for beverages. Little legal loophole, could apply....could....check

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Priemus I truely wish we can go back and use the barter system. Looking at our country now and seeing all of the laws puting restrictions on the free market system it will always be imposible for one to do so unless it's done illegally.

For the record I DO NOT sell my home brew for any type of profit. Nor will I most likely ever do it unless im liscenced by the state and lets not forget I will be TAXED for it like everything else.