Can somebody explain a MLT

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jdog188

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Hello,


Due to the crazy high cost of DME and LME, I think that it is time to move onto all-grain brewing! Not to mention, it just seems so much more legit.


I have John Palmers book on the designs of MLT using picnic coolers, of which I have a very crude understanding. However, I still don't get the difference between braids, manifolds and false bottoms and how they work, why they are better etc. Could some enlightened soul please illuminate the dark path I am currently walking down? Thanks!
 
Cost factor is about all that separates the differences. If you are batch sparging, little point in using a false bottom.
 
Haha, well said! Well, the braid is the easiest/cheapest way to go and works great for batch sparging. Manifolds and false bottoms work marginally better if you want to fly sparge as they don't create channels in the grain bed. I think that is about it but others may have more insight. I am going with SS braid as it works well and is easy.
 
I don't know about using a cooler, but I would put my money in 2 large stock pots (you need a boil pot already so it's not much more $) and a colander instead of cooler.

A 2 pot batch sparge allows for quite a few benefits:

No need for a false bottom, braid or any thing fancy just a cover.
much higher efficiency I have gotten up to 80%
You can add heat instead of hot water for your different rests
Easier to clean and store
Colander can stay in the kitchen and be used for other things
Stock pots can be used for making soup chili and other things
 
I have John Palmers book on the designs of MLT using picnic coolers, of which I have a very crude understanding. However, I still don't get the difference between braids, manifolds and false bottoms and how they work, why they are better etc. Could some enlightened soul please illuminate the dark path I am currently walking down? Thanks!

Sorry in advance if this is too simplified - but I will attempt to answer this part of your question -

The grains need to sit for an hour at roughly 154F to convert the starches to sugar. The cooler is insulated, therefore, will hold temps for an hour.

The manifold, braid, false-bottom --- they're all there to help separate the grain from the sweet wort you just created by soaking the grains for an hour. So after your hour is up, you drain the sweet stuff out, leaving the grain behind.

However, there is obviously some sugars still clinging to the grain - they need to be rinsed (sparged).

Batch Sparging is draining out the wort, then filling the cooler with 168F water, stirring, and draining into the brew kettle, to join the previous wort.

Fly Sparging is letting the initial wort out very slowly, with hot (168F) water sprinkling onto the top of the grain bed at the same rate the sweet is draining out of the bottom, until you have the volume in the boil kettle you want (say 6.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch)

--- remember to account for about a gallon to a gallon and a half for evaporation during the boil.

And, keep in mind the grain will hold another gallon of water that won't drain out.

Braid, Manifold, False Bottom - when it comes down to it, it's all a matter of preference.

Good luck with your all-grain efforts! :rockin:
 
Manifolds, false bottoms, braids all help to keep the grain in the mash tun and also to help "guide" the wort through the grains during lautering(draining) to remove the maximum amount of wort from the grain bed.

The grains ideally will form a filter so the wort will come out clear of any small bits of grain and residue. If the wort channels then the grains will not filter evenly and leave a portion of sweet wort left in the grain bed.

There are several schools on which is better but as "Gila" said, it basicall boils down(no pun intended) to cost and effort on the part of the brewer!

BTW most of my AG batches run about $21-$23(grain, hops, yeast) and I know there are a lot of awesome brewers who cut costs even more!
Check out bargainfittings if you are thinking about going AG and converting some equipment yourself(easy and cheap)!

As always, this is all my own humble opinoin! Good luck!

I'm a slow typist so basically what Hang Glider just said :)
 
^^^^ what they said!

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Also, if you look up BobbyM here, he's got a very clear website page on batch sparging - the link is in his signature, I think. I found his explanation remarkably helpful when I first began brewing all grain.
 
I don't know about using a cooler, but I would put my money in 2 large stock pots (you need a boil pot already so it's not much more $) and a colander instead of cooler.

A 2 pot batch sparge allows for quite a few benefits:

No need for a false bottom, braid or any thing fancy just a cover.
much higher efficiency I have gotten up to 80%
You can add heat instead of hot water for your different rests
Easier to clean and store
Colander can stay in the kitchen and be used for other things
Stock pots can be used for making soup chili and other things

I'm not sure if I agree with 100% of what you're saying. True, a keggle or kettle will allow one to heat up the mash with a burner directly. What I don't understand is what you use the colander for? Flip it upside down in the bottom of the pot and use with a valve? Drain the pot through the colander into the other pot? Put a valve in the pot and drain out through the colander? Any way you slice it, I can't imagine how practical a colander is going to be. Flipped upside down in the bottom of the pot would result in a ton of deadspace. Pouring the mash through the colander into another pot seems like it would be a pain in the ass. 10 pounds of grain that has absorbed water is heavy and a mess!

Personally, I think the only benefit of mashing in an un-insulated pot is that you could do multi-step temperature mashes without pulling anything out or using a complex series of pumps and valves with external heat. Also, although I don't have experience doing a full batch mash in a pot, I do know from experiences with partial mashes that it is a pain in the ass to feather the burner to get the exact temp I want in an un-insulated pot. In a cooler, it is a non-issue since you just get your strike temp down to your desired level and go from there. With these things in mind, if you wanted to do a multi-step mash, I would reckon it is much easier to do a decoction mash (no special tools/equipment needed- just another mid-sized pot) than to set up a HERMS/RIMS system.

Anyway, obviously I'm a fan of using coolers as mashtuns! :) The ability to lock onto a single temp and hold it steady for an hour is awesome. I run a false bottom in mine, and have been very happy with it so far. It's probably overkill, but if I want to do fly-sparging someday, I can just do it.
 
If you decide on a SS braid, I recommend using the hot water heater line as it is bigger. I was having stuck sparges with the regular size, switched to the water heater hose and no issues since.
 
I don't know about the OP but this was very helpful to me. I've only ventured into extract brews so far and have a decent understanding of the brewing process but the whole batch vs fly sparge discussion was confusing me.

Thanks!
 
Glider, I find your post very useful. However, you mentioned when batch sparging to add 168f water to get the rest of the sweetness off the grain, i guess my question is how much water? Thanks in advanced for the help from anyone.
 
Glider, I find your post very useful. However, you mentioned when batch sparging to add 168f water to get the rest of the sweetness off the grain, i guess my question is how much water? Thanks in advanced for the help from anyone.

One batch of experience AG here, but my understanding is you sparge with the amount of water you need to fill your boil kettle to where you want it to be. But please someone correct me if I'm wrong! :confused:
 
You can use some tools online to calculate your sparge water needs (which is important if you are dilluting tap water with bottled and need to know how much to buy) but if you are going straight tap water you only need to calculate the total boil volume. When you drain the mash you'll batch sparge until you reach your boil volume and then stop sparging.
 
One batch of experience AG here, but my understanding is you sparge with the amount of water you need to fill your boil kettle to where you want it to be. But please someone correct me if I'm wrong! :confused:

Nope, that's about right. Your sparge water will be the remaining water you need to get up to your pre-boil levels. If you have a program like beersmith, it'll even tell you how much you'll need.

As for the braid/manifold/false bottom debate, I say go for the latter two. I had a braid and it constantly got bent and did all sorts of weird things. I love my manifold. Of course, this is just preference and I am a clumsy sort, so you might have no issues.
 
I don't know how much of my brewing cred I'll lose by suggesting this, but I've had a lot of success using the brew in the bag method.

1. Get a big grain bag.
2. Put the bag in the pot
3. Fill the pot with water then the bag with grain
4. Mash
5. Remove bag and grain along with it.

I think this is a good method for people who want to go all grain but don't want to get a MLT just yet. James Spencer on Basic Brewing Radio has a show all about it - look at April 2, 2009

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2009

Let me know how it goes!
 
I have a 10 gal MLT that I use for batches 3+ gallons. Anything less (I do some experimental 1 gallon batches) I do with the brew in a bag method with two pots. I find it's hard to mash well with 2lbs of grain in the 10 gal MLT, plus it's less hassle to BIAB that amount.

There's no shame in it -- it's a great process if you have the equipment to do it (large enough pots) and you can control the heat enough to get it done.
 
I was thinking of going the kettle method myself, since I have a 5 gallon kettle which would work for the mash, just need a bigger brew kettle, but worried my stove won't keep up with the increased volume.
 
I had trouble brewing a full boil on my stove, even across 2 burners on a gas stove. It worked, it just took forever.

I dropped $40 on this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000291GBQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Worth every penny. It cut the time it takes to boil 6 gallons or so in half at least. I randomly did a one-click buy on Amazon on a Thursday and it was on my doorstep Saturday with free super saver shipping!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sorry in advance if this is too simplified - but I will attempt to answer this part of your question -

The grains need to sit for an hour at roughly 154F to convert the starches to sugar. The cooler is insulated, therefore, will hold temps for an hour.

The manifold, braid, false-bottom --- they're all there to help separate the grain from the sweet wort you just created by soaking the grains for an hour. So after your hour is up, you drain the sweet stuff out, leaving the grain behind.

However, there is obviously some sugars still clinging to the grain - they need to be rinsed (sparged).

Batch Sparging is draining out the wort, then filling the cooler with 168F water, stirring, and draining into the brew kettle, to join the previous wort.

Fly Sparging is letting the initial wort out very slowly, with hot (168F) water sprinkling onto the top of the grain bed at the same rate the sweet is draining out of the bottom, until you have the volume in the boil kettle you want (say 6.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch)

--- remember to account for about a gallon to a gallon and a half for evaporation during the boil.

And, keep in mind the grain will hold another gallon of water that won't drain out.

Braid, Manifold, False Bottom - when it comes down to it, it's all a matter of preference.

Good luck with your all-grain efforts! :rockin:

Awesome post. Even though I did my first AG this past Saturday, this was great.
 
Ah thank you all so much!

For those of you that have tried both fly and batch sparging, does fly sparging produce a noticeable difference in efficiency and ultimately taste?

Thanks
 
Ah thank you all so much!

For those of you that have tried both fly and batch sparging, does fly sparging produce a noticeable difference in efficiency and ultimately taste?

Thanks
 
I set up a fly-rig when I started all-grain, it works fine, and honestly have never batch sparged. However, I think batch is the most common among the participants on this forum. Like so many things brewing, this one is probably more about preference than efficiency (of course, that will start another debate! :rolleyes:).
 
So the deed is done. I remembered that I had a few food grade, 5 gal buckets lying around from my job. I took one of them and fit it with a spigot, and with the other I drilled about 100 small holes in the bottom. I then attached some insulation to the outside of the spigot bucket so it could retain the heat. This way, I just put the bucket with holes in it, into the spigot bucket to create a faux screen.

I also tried, with another bucket, drilling some holes in the bottom with hopes of fly sparging. I figured I would be able to have the water dripping down at the same rate it was leaving the spigot bucket, but my drill bits were a bit too big. So looks like I am batch sparging.

I hope this double bucket idea works out.
 
The double bucket was one of Charlie Papazian's (complete guide to homebrewing), early ideas - looks like great minds think alike!
 
Batch Sparging is draining out the wort, then filling the cooler with 168F water, stirring, and draining into the brew kettle, to join the previous wort.

Fly Sparging is letting the initial wort out very slowly, with hot (168F) water sprinkling onto the top of the grain bed at the same rate the sweet is draining out of the bottom, until you have the volume in the boil kettle you want (say 6.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch)

Finally someone defines batch sparge and fly sparge in a simple easy to understand way. Thank you! For Real I mean it!

Salute! :mug:
 
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