Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue)

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

CSI - CandiSyrup

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
856
Reaction score
179
Location
Charlotte
Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue), TRIAL 001

This initial recipe was drafted from BLAM and the Chimay Blue label declaration of ingredients, (water, malted barley, wheat, sugar, hops, yeast). Where ingredients like "caramel malt" were generalized in the literature we based the malt selection on color characteristics and region for roast and quantity *e.g. Belgian Caramunich contributes a distinct ruddy color and does not raise the SRM overly high (as would Special B). The selection of Belgian Candi Syrup and the quantity was also based on BLAM, (adjuncts did not exceed 5% in the Chimay Red). 1lb of D-45 equated to 6.4% of fermentables and brought the color up to a ruddy-brown, (however), after 6 months of fermentation the SRM was approximately 13-14. The recipe below will be lighter than the CGR. If you use 1lb of D-90 the SRM will be much closer to the CGR.

OG: 1.077
FG: 1.008
ABV: 9.00%
SRM: 13+ (from BLAM adj, but the actual Chimay pours closer to 16-17)
IBU: 31.4 (Tinseth)
VOL: 5.25 gal
BHE 75% (assumed)

FERMENTABLES
12.0 lb Belgian Pils
1.00 lb Dingeman's Cara 45
1.00 lb Torrified Wheat
1.00 lb D-45, (or 1.00 lb D-90 for Darker SRM) Candi Syrup, Inc.

HOPS (30.4 ibu)
Saaz 1.50 oz,60 min (Brewery visits indicate Nugget is the bittering hop now)
Hallertau 1.50 oz,20 min

YEAST
WLP 500 (Chimay) – 260 Billion Cells (pitched at high krausen, 22 hrs)

MASH
Sacch 148F 60 minutes
Mash out 170F 20 minutes


90 minute boil. Chill to 64F. O2 for 60 seconds. Ramp primary starting at 64F then raise to 68F over 6 days. Secondary at 60F until FG is reached, then crash at 38-40F until ale clarifies. Prime with Golden Candi Syrup at a rate of 30 grams/gallon (then hold bottles at 72F for 10 days for initial carbonation). Bottle condition at cellar temps for (a minimum) of 12 months.


This is a link to Chimay.com showing a video of the pour, color, and head:
http://www.chimay.com/en/chimay-bleue.html?IDC=287&IDD=130


Cheers,

AJ

Chimay Blue.jpg
 
Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue), TRIAL 002

Both the Chimay 001 and Chimay 002 trials performed as designed but the 001 was closer in flavor while the 002 trial was closer in SRM. Trial 001 secondary is complete with the gravity currently at 1.010. The 002 SRM matches the CGR more closely. Pics to follow...

The grain bill was subtle and I doubt we will need much adjustment. Some add Belgian Pale or Special B to a Chimay clone but a small amount of Belgian Caramunich (47L) adds just enough subtle breadiness. In our opinion there is no need for Pale or Special B.
 
I have been hoping to see a good Chimay clone, I am aware that there are better examples of Belgian strongs, but its a fine beer and many people can appreciate its subtlety. Keep up the good work CSI, its a great way to make us all want to buy your syrups too! I already am planning on Westy 12, Westmalle dubbel, and the Chimay.
 
The Chimay Blue 002 trial is on to secondary. Again, using D-90 matches the CGR much closer in color/hue.

D-45 as used in the 001 trial is a good flavor fit for this ale. The flavors coming out of secondary are a nice example of Chimay's delicate palate of malt, fruit, spice, with a very faint candi/caramel finish.
 
I have been hoping to see a good Chimay clone, I am aware that there are better examples of Belgian strongs, but its a fine beer and many people can appreciate its subtlety. Keep up the good work CSI, its a great way to make us all want to buy your syrups too! I already am planning on Westy 12, Westmalle dubbel, and the Chimay.

I agree. My first experience with a Chimay Grande Reserve was good but it didn't stand out. My second was a GR in a Magnum. It was much better. I'm hoping that this recipe will help create a consistency that will bring out the best of Chimay yeast and the subtle malty style.

Originally, the partners here created the brew trials for pre-release quality testing. Openly sharing our trials with other brewers has turned out to be a lot of fun and it's almost achieved an "open source" life of its own for perfecting Belgian style ales.
 
Blam says SRM = 40, Page 46. figure 2.2. You indicated it said 20.

I would expect you to know better than me, but does Chimay use any Candi/Caramel Syrup. I was under the impression they used straight beet sugar in all their beers.
 
CSI - thank you & the CSI crew for taking the lead on creating & proofing recipes. I am very excited to see this Chimay clone and can't wait for the ABT. If you weren't aware, BYO has an ABT 12 clone in their 250 recipes collection. It may be a starting point.

If you're ever looking for product testers, keep me in mind :)
 
Blam says SRM = 40, Page 46. figure 2.2. You indicated it said 20.

I would expect you to know better than me, but does Chimay use any Candi/Caramel Syrup. I was under the impression they used straight beet sugar in all their beers.

We went back and re-reviewed the SRM based on your comment. We take any comments seriously to make sure we haven't made a mistake. With that being said, BLAM has a misprint on the Blue in the SRM designation pp. 46, Table 2.2. The EBC designation is incorrect altogether and the SRM was to have been the EBC (thus 20.3 is the actual SRM for the Chimay Grande Reserve).

A look at the video on the pour additionally confirms the misprint (please take a quick look at the link below).

The "socker" mentioned by Chimay we confirmed to be "amber liquid sugar", (aka candi syrup), but to your astute point candi syrup is beet sugar.

Thanks for keeping us on track.

http://www.chimay.com/en/chimay-bleue.html?IDC=287&IDD=130
 
Subscribing ... can't wait to try this great brew.

We'll be bottling 001 soon. Coming out of secondary it is simply "amazing". Subtle bready malt, moderately dry, and a slight caramel hint. The alcohol is already hidden and nearly undetectable. We'll see how it goes in conditioning...
 
CSI - thank you & the CSI crew for taking the lead on creating & proofing recipes. I am very excited to see this Chimay clone and can't wait for the ABT. If you weren't aware, BYO has an ABT 12 clone in their 250 recipes collection. It may be a starting point.

If you're ever looking for product testers, keep me in mind :)

@Ultra, we select 4-5 "brew-partners" yearly for various clone parallel recipe testing. If you are selected we'll send you the necessary adjuncts at no cost. You only have to pay a flat rate shipping. We'll soon be perfoming due diligence on a Chimay Red Clone. IM me over private message and I'll tell you how to get engaged in a brew trial with CSI.

@Calder, please feel to IM me as well. All are welcome.
 
The first trial is bottled, initially carbed, and set aside for aging. We poured one bottle to check carb prior to cellaring. It is a fine ale in its early stages, (already). I'll post comparative pics with the Chimay Blue soon to illustrate the SRM.
 
Thanks CSI for your work with the trials - they represent an excellent reference to the home brewer.

I tried to get some of your product but shipping to NZ turned out to be prohibitively costly... it cost more than the syrup itself! Oh well, you do get used to that living here.

I have a question and an observation.

The question is around why you chose a radically different fermentation schedule than that described in BLAM for this beer (starting at 68 rising to 81/82) - is to avoid the the production of banana flavoured esters?

The observation is in response to other posters requesting an ABT 12 clone; the St Bernardus yeast isn't available commercially as far as I know and BLAM says the brewery employs a second yeast for bottle conditioning. If you don't have the yeast I don't think you can rally really produce the beer.

BTW St Bernardus ABT 12 is my # 1, I like it more than any of Trappists.. yes sacrilege I know.
 
Thanks CSI for your work with the trials - they represent an excellent reference to the home brewer.

I have a question and an observation.

The question is around why you chose a radically different fermentation schedule than that described in BLAM for this beer (starting at 68 rising to 81/82).

Hi Sid, a good observation. BLAM lists the Chimay "Red" ferm temps in the low 80's, (which has slight aged banana phenols in it due to higher ferm temps), but this may not be applicable to the Blue (BLAM pp. 48, 51). BLAM unfortunately does not list the Grande Reserve (Blue) ferm temps but we do know by deduction that the temps are lower for the Blue due to the absence of these banana-like phenols in the nose and palate. Since Chimay is a cooler fermenting yeast it ferments at near-perfect ramped at 62 - 68F for a balance of spice and fruit...one of the wonderful characteristics of the Blue.

We do ship to New Zealand and Australia quite frequently but shipping to Oceania is expensive as you mentioned. Fellow brewers in New Zealand and Australia have been very determined in getting our product :)
 
From the CSI brew room... Below is a pic of a very young Grande Reserve clone (trial 001). Just 3 weeks in bottle conditioning a friend who tasted this asked if we had used anise in it because he detected a faint licorice flavor, (since there were no spices used in this recipe this was a very nice compliment). This is turning out to be a truly extraordinary ale even by Trappist standards. Delicate balance of fruit, spice and bread. No alcohol detected and very smooth even at the early stages. The SRM contributions were primarily 1 lb D-45 and a slight contribution from the Pils and torrified wheat. This ale poured lighter than a Chimay Blue poured side-by-side. It clarified on it's own. Will take a comparative pic side by side next pour.

Chimay Blue 001.jpg
 
From the CSI brew room...Below is Chimay Grande Reserve trial 002 using 1 lb of D-90. It's about 2 weeks in bottle conditioning. As we determined from primary, the SRM is closer in pour to the CGR. If it was backlit the translucence would show through better.

This one is dry, malty, fruity, and crazy delicious even this young in the bottle. Again, no alcohol. The D-90 and Chiimay yeast created intense dark stone fruit esters/flavors that came through both in the nose and palate. It tastes and smells like sitting in a Belgian pub in Bruges...will pour this one again in 6 months.

Chimay Blue 002.jpg
 
I almost want to do this recipe three times, one with d-45, d-90, and another with the d-180. Sounds like a fun way to see how the flavors of the candisyrup come through the final product. These pictures are getting me vamped.
 
I almost want to do this recipe three times, one with d-45, d-90, and another with the d-180. Sounds like a fun way to see how the flavors of the candisyrup come through the final product. These pictures are getting me vamped.

Interesting thought. D-180 and Chimay yeast hasn't been done as far as I know. Would be fantastic ale to be sure.
 
CSI - with exception to color, what will the difference be between those three batches using 45, 90, and 180?
 
CSI - with exception to color, what will the difference be between those three batches using 45, 90, and 180?

So far we've only run two variations in the trial 001 (D-45) and 002 (D-90). The syrup variations create a unique flavor profile that's noticeable. D-45 so far has hit the Grande Reserve flavor profile very nicely with a balance of malty, fresh fruit, brown sugar/caramel, spice. The 002 tastes between a Westmalle doubel and Rochefort 8 with deep stone fruit flavors...mainly plums. We do have to see how they complete in bottle conditioning over the next 6+ months.

We haven't used D-180 in a Chimay Grande Reserve clone since even one pouch would make this ale much too dark.

I would guess D-180 with this base recipe would come out somewhere between a Wesvleteren 8 and a Rochefort 10 albeit lower gravity than the R10. To create a Chimay style double or quad with D-180 could be very interesting but that will be up to creative brewers. A craft brewery could easily be built around an ale this good.
 
Getting ready to order the grains and hops for this recipe. How does this sound as hop adjustments due to alpha acids.

2.75 oz Saaz(3.2% AA) for 24.5 IBU
1.22 oz Hallertauer(4.5% AA) for 5.5 IBU

Thanks! Ordering one of each candi syrups so that I can see the flavor profiles with the Chimay yeast, plus I can't see anything wrong with having three different batches of Belgians around :)
 
Getting ready to order the grains and hops for this recipe. How does this sound as hop adjustments due to alpha acids.

2.75 oz Saaz(3.2% AA) for 24.5 IBU
1.22 oz Hallertauer(4.5% AA) for 5.5 IBU

Thanks! Ordering one of each candi syrups so that I can see the flavor profiles with the Chimay yeast, plus I can't see anything wrong with having three different batches of Belgians around :)

The IBU's match up. Absolutely agree. I would very much like to know how the D-180 performs in this ale. It might not be too much of stretch to formulate a Quad recipe from the Grande Reserve using D-180.
 
Thanks for the reply! I will definitely keep you posted on it. I am planning on brewing the d-45 first, followed by the d-180. Question is should I keep all grains and hops consistent as kind of a control, or bump the grains and make things interesting. So many options!
 
Thanks for the reply! I will definitely keep you posted on it. I am planning on brewing the d-45 first, followed by the d-180. Question is should I keep all grains and hops consistent as kind of a control, or bump the grains and make things interesting. So many options!

I think keeping the base recipe exact is a great idea for comparison.
 
Just mashed in, hit just below 149 and after a quick yet thorough mixing settled at 148. Will report back when bottled and tasted with my numbers. Initial brew is going to be with D-45, followed by d-180 and d-90 respectively. I am looking forward to this one. The color of the wort was lighter than I expected, but than again that's not a proper way to tell SRM anyways. We will see once in secondary fr a better idea. SG a little high 1.079. I will also be keeping mash volume, sparge volume, and procedures as consistent as possible. As well as grain base. Only hop changes if necessary due to AA.
 
Just mashed in, hit just below 149 and after a quick yet thorough mixing settled at 148. Will report back when bottled and tasted with my numbers. Initial brew is going to be with D-45, followed by d-180 and d-90 respectively. I am looking forward to this one. The color of the wort was lighter than I expected, but than again that's not a proper way to tell SRM anyways. We will see once in secondary fr a better idea. SG a little high 1.079. I will also be keeping mash volume, sparge volume, and procedures as consistent as possible. As well as grain base. Only hop changes if necessary due to AA.

It looks like your OG hit at near perfection :) In primary we also thought the SRM was much too light. The suspended yeast gives it a much lighter appearance initially. This was the reason we stepped up to using D-90 in trial 002 before trial 001 had a chance to flocc. As 001 flocced we realized the color was a little light but the flavor was worth keepoing the 001 trial. I just tasted another of both at 6 weeks conditioning and they have that subtle understated Belgian malty-caramel of the actual Chimay Blue. Aging very nicely at 58-59F.

Looking forward to your experiment with darker syrups...
 
I am glad to hear that! It's bubbling away at 63 fermenter temp right now(split between the numbers on this post and on the PDF from your site) will ramp along the way. Color was my only worry but not anymore. I would be very happy to send some. Ill do the d-180 once the first batch is carbing at room temp. I am already planning a quad with a blend of syrups. Obviously it'll be a whole. Now to hunt a source for more heavy belgian bottles.
 
Day 12 of primary, down to 1.012 sg. Down from 1.018 on day 9. It is sitting at 68 degrees, wondering if its best to let it get down to 1.01 or get it off that yeast? Any thoughts? Color is definitely darker than before, yet still slightly lighter than I expected. We will see how much the color changes once cleared, still very cloudy in the primary.
 
Day 12 of primary, down to 1.012 sg. Down from 1.018 on day 9. It is sitting at 68 degrees, wondering if its best to let it get down to 1.01 or get it off that yeast? Any thoughts? Color is definitely darker than before, yet still slightly lighter than I expected. We will see how much the color changes once cleared, still very cloudy in the primary.

Definitely get it off the primary yeast. As John Palmer always says "autolysis is always lurking...". The suspended active yeast will finish it. The color will be lighter with D-45 ad very close with D-90 :)
 
Back
Top