Small Control Panel Build

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skepace

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While I wanted to go all electric, I am going to have to make some changes.

I am looking at building a small panel to control my HLT heating element. I am going to build it to display the temperature of the HLT and MLT. My BK will be heated by propane gas but will eventually use the natural gas since the pipe runs right behind my brew table/work bench.

Here is what I have figured out so far to buy:

(1) Auber Small Control Box
(2) Auber PID 2352
(1) Auber Contractor (is the ebrew.com version the same?)
(1) Auber SSR
(1) Auber Heatsink
(2) Auber RTD Deluxe Sensor
(1) 2 way switch
(1) Blue 120V Pilot Light
(1) Yellow 240V Pilot Light
(1) 7A - Inline Fuse
(2) 8 position terminal strip, 20 Amp
NEMA L6-30 female and male receptacles


Looking for suggestions and help. Thanks to Kevin already for helping me get going.
 
If you don't have a small mountain of parts you don't have enough yet :)

One thing to consider is building with the ability to easily upgrade to a full all electric in the future, such as put in a 3rd PID and use it right now as nothing more than a temp reader for the BK but still having the space to add another SSR and switches down the road, it is not much more cost right now and can save you from rebuilding the entire thing should for some reason you need to go all electric down the road.

You don't need an 8 position terminal strip, a smaller one will work just fine. I don't see anything to run your pumps...IMO, may as well put it altogether instead of having those controls elsewhere, it is both more ergonomic and safer to have all electrical components in one locations, especially if it is a sealed box.

You also need a bunch of wire of the appropriate gauge and connectors. That switch is likely not designed to turn on 220v 30 amp service so you need a DPST relay or another 30 amp SSR to do that (DPST for this application would be better IMO). If you want to take advantage of the alarm feature of the PIDs an illuminated buzzer and on/off switch for them would be necessary.
 
Thanks!

I was thinking of possibly only using one PID but make space in the box for 2. Might have to see the difference in price of getting a larger control box.

Also, I would like to have my pumps connected but don't want the expense of rewiring them to use locking plugs. Can i use the standard cords that come with?
 
If you don't have a small mountain of parts you don't have enough yet :)....

...If you want to take advantage of the alarm feature of the PIDs an illuminated buzzer and on/off switch for them would be necessary.

Yes I know from experience I failed to add an on and off switch for my alarm w and now need to add one!!! Opps... good luck
 
I noticed that ebrew.com is cheaper than Auber on several items. Would they be the same quality? Anyone had any luck with their products?
 
You can definately use standard plugs. I have the two plug wall outlet/cover installed in my panel. Just make sure that you remove the connector between the two plugs so that they operate independently. Also, if money is an issue, you can easily use 1 pid. Even down the road you can use it in auto mode to control the hex and in manual for the boil. Then you could use a cheaper controller to just read the temp of the mlt
 
Thanks!

I was thinking of possibly only using one PID but make space in the box for 2. Might have to see the difference in price of getting a larger control box.

Also, I would like to have my pumps connected but don't want the expense of rewiring them to use locking plugs. Can i use the standard cords that come with?

I found my ubiquitous 16x16x8 box for around $90 with a little internet searching.

I understand the locking plugs are a little pricey up front but worth it for a nice clean install in the long run IMO. But, if you want to hold off on the expense for now, I would simply attach a jockey box to the bottom of the control panel with the thought to upgrade to locking plugs in the future. Doing that I would figure out where the plug cut outs would be and then attach the jockey box with small bolts through that area so in the future when you cut out the whole for the locking receptacle you wont have the old attachment point. Then wire the box up with a standard receptacle for the time being.
 
I found my ubiquitous 16x16x8 box for around $90 with a little internet searching.

I understand the locking plugs are a little pricey up front but worth it for a nice clean install in the long run IMO. But, if you want to hold off on the expense for now, I would simply attach a jockey box to the bottom of the control panel with the thought to upgrade to locking plugs in the future. Doing that I would figure out where the plug cut outs would be and then attach the jockey box with small bolts through that area so in the future when you cut out the whole for the locking receptacle you wont have the old attachment point. Then wire the box up with a standard receptacle for the time being.

What is a "jockey box"? Can't seem to find anything like that on the internet. Any schematics on how to install the standard receptacle and wire the plugs separate?
 
I fit all my stuff into a 6x6x4ish enclosure. The Auber controller may have been too deep for the stuff I had in there. I was able to get the controller, ssr with external heatsink, pump switch(with second contact to break the pid to ssr signal to prevent dryfire), gfci outlet, twistloc element receptacle, and pump outlet all crammed in there. I have to add a ground lug connection out of the box to connect up to my element, but I brewed 15 gallons of hefe/saison this weekend with good performance.







 
What is a "jockey box"? Can't seem to find anything like that on the internet. Any schematics on how to install the standard receptacle and wire the plugs separate?

Please don't take this as rude, but if you don't know how to wire a standard receptacle and don't know what a jockey box is, I very very very highly encourage you to do a ton of learning before endeavoring to wire a 220v 30 amp system as you are playing with levels of electricity that can easily kill.

A jockey box is a standard box used for bringing together electrical connections safely by protecting the wire connections. If you take the plate cover off any electrical outlet in your house you will see a box behind it, that is a jockey box. Wiring a standard plug is pretty easy, the black is hot, the white neutral, and the copper the ground. On the back of a receptacle it is labeled (sometimes hard to see) white on one side and black on the other, at a corner is a green screw that is for the ground. Simply attach the wires powering the receptacle as labeled and you will be able to plug into pumps into it...but, again do your homework, know what you are doing, watch a ton of youtube videos for visuals, get a voltmeter and a digital or analogue voltage detector so you know the power is off and that you have the correct amount of power when wiring. Electricity is invisible, never guess, never assume, please be safe...ok done with my soapbox.
 
Please don't take this as rude, but if you don't know how to wire a standard receptacle and don't know what a jockey box is, I very very very highly encourage you to do a ton of learning before endeavoring to wire a 220v 30 amp system as you are playing with levels of electricity that can easily kill.

A jockey box is a standard box used for bringing together electrical connections safely by protecting the wire connections. ...

I've been associated with the elctrical trade for more years than you have been around. I also have no clue what the "jockey box" you reference is.

Go easy. I recommend it.
 
Please don't take this as rude, but if you don't know how to wire a standard receptacle and don't know what a jockey box is, I very very very highly encourage you to do a ton of learning before endeavoring to wire a 220v 30 amp system as you are playing with levels of electricity that can easily kill.

A jockey box is a standard box used for bringing together electrical connections safely by protecting the wire connections. If you take the plate cover off any electrical outlet in your house you will see a box behind it, that is a jockey box. Wiring a standard plug is pretty easy, the black is hot, the white neutral, and the copper the ground. On the back of a receptacle it is labeled (sometimes hard to see) white on one side and black on the other, at a corner is a green screw that is for the ground. Simply attach the wires powering the receptacle as labeled and you will be able to plug into pumps into it...but, again do your homework, know what you are doing, watch a ton of youtube videos for visuals, get a voltmeter and a digital or analogue voltage detector so you know the power is off and that you have the correct amount of power when wiring. Electricity is invisible, never guess, never assume, please be safe...ok done with my soapbox.

FWIW, I have never heard of an outlet box referred to as a jockey box, and a google search for jockey box does not show an outlet box, at least for the first few pages, before I gave up.
 
Ok, well I have not heard of that either. Thanks guys for chiming in.

Still my question is, how would I wire the GFCI plug which has two receptacles on it so I can run the two pumps off seperate 2-way switches?
 
Ok, well I have not heard of that either. Thanks guys for chiming in.

Still my question is, how would I wire the GFCI plug which has two receptacles on it so I can run the two pumps off seperate 2-way switches?

It would be better to put the GFCI before the panel, so that all of the circuits are under GFCI protection. If a 120v panel, then put a GFCI outlet on the wall where you will plug the panel in. If 240v, same principle, but you would use either a GFCI breaker or a GFCI spa panel.
 
It would be better to put the GFCI before the panel, so that all of the circuits are under GFCI protection. If a 120v panel, then put a GFCI outlet on the wall where you will plug the panel in. If 240v, same principle, but you would use either a GFCI breaker or a GFCI spa panel.

Good point. If I am using a 30A 240V heating element, I would have to use the GFCI breaker or spa panel right? I don't plan on boiling water in my HLT but from what I have read, the element still might pull the full watage if something goes wrong.

Correct?
 
I've been associated with the elctrical trade for more years than you have been around. I also have no clue what the "jockey box" you reference is.

Go easy. I recommend it.

Strange, must be a local thing that electricians I know use, that and j-box...just a junction box, but they use it as a catch all for any of their electrical boxes, whether a junction or a light switch.
 
It would be better to put the GFCI before the panel, so that all of the circuits are under GFCI protection. If a 120v panel, then put a GFCI outlet on the wall where you will plug the panel in. If 240v, same principle, but you would use either a GFCI breaker or a GFCI spa panel.

+1, everything needs to be protected with GFCI
 
Good point. If I am using a 30A 240V heating element, I would have to use the GFCI breaker or spa panel right? I don't plan on boiling water in my HLT but from what I have read, the element still might pull the full watage if something goes wrong.

Correct?

Yes on the GFCI.

Also, the GFCI is there to protect life, and in that context it has nothing to do with how you are using the using the element.

Incidentally, the way a PID/SSR control an element is by cycling on and off, so when it is on it draws 100% current. The relative time on vs. off is how it maintains temperature.
 
Yes on the GFCI.

Also, the GFCI is there to protect life, and in that context it has nothing to do with how you are using the using the element.

Incidentally, the way a PID/SSR control an element is by cycling on and off, so when it is on it draws 100% current. The relative time on vs. off is how it maintains temperature.

Got it. That's what I thought. I have been lurking on a lot of posts by everyone that has posted on mine to try and become learned. :cross:

Would this female receptacle work? I wouldn't see why not for the heating element to plug into.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_246702-1571-L630-RCCV3_0__?productId=3537736&Ntt=l6-30&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dl6-30&facetInfo=
 
Why wouldn't I want the locking one for the element to plug into my control box? I'm glad to see it is so much cheaper. If it is just for convenience then, then I will use the cheaper one. Thanks Jeff, PJ and Kevin for helping.

Shawn
 
Google NEMA L6-30R and I suspect you can find a locking one for less than the Lowe's one you posted. Locking makes it less likely that you will accidentally pull the plug. If you keep the cord out of the way, my personal view is that it does not matter much.
 
Google NEMA L6-30R and I suspect you can find a locking one for less than the Lowe's one you posted. Locking makes it less likely that you will accidentally pull the plug. If you keep the cord out of the way, my personal view is that it does not matter much.

Gotcha! Time to start buying some of these items.
 
What is the depth of the PID's that Auber sells? I am just trying to figure out what size box at a minimum I have to use.
 
What is the depth of the PID's that Auber sells? I am just trying to figure out what size box at a minimum I have to use.

They are 75mm or just under 3" deep. Something to consider though, is you will be likely mounting stuff to the boxes back plate so you will want some extra clearance. I'm guessing you could get away with 6" depending on how complex you get though. But, the 8" box certainly allows more room to play.
 
Thanks! I am going to try and order my box, pid and SSR today. Gotta order my false bottom for my MLT too.
 
Is there anyone that can help me with a schematics of my wiring?

the big question is one, two or three pid, how many (any?) 120 outlets, switches, timers, shunts, elements, etc etc... long and short, we need to know exactly what you want. more than likely, p-j has done it.
 
2 PID

1 5500 watt 240 volt element
2 switches for the pumps
120volt plug ins for pumps

Power cord wired directly

On/off main switch
 
Light to show when the element has power and when the pumps are turned on. What might I be missing?
 
You also want a SPDT NO contactor and a swith to operate to be able to shut off main power to the panel (or go with a P-J e-stop, but I prefer the former). Add another set to be able to turn your element off without relying on the SSR not to leak or fail on.

You want some type of GFCI, either an inline cord, spa panel, or breaker.

You may want an alarm buzzer triggered by the PID, and perhaps some type of switch to disable it.

If you are going to add a timer, you may want another switch to disable the alarm buzzer.

That about covers it, but when you have the entire list of components post it for a final review and comment.
 
jeffmeh said:
You also want a SPDT NO contactor and a swith to operate to be able to shut off main power to the panel (or go with a P-J e-stop, but I prefer the former). Add another set to be able to turn your element off without relying on the SSR not to leak or fail on.

You want some type of GFCI, either an inline cord, spa panel, or breaker.

You may want an alarm buzzer triggered by the PID, and perhaps some type of switch to disable it.

If you are going to add a timer, you may want another switch to disable the alarm buzzer.

That about covers it, but when you have the entire list of components post it for a final review and comment.

Would a reset button work on the PID? Isn't there an alarm on the PID already?
 
The PID may have some type of visual blinking for an alarm, but it it common to use something like this to get audio and a more striking visual. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_33&products_id=215

Yes, you can stop the alarm on the PID. However, it is common to use some type of switch to shut the audible alarm off while hitting the multiple buttons on the PID to stop the alarm. Kal has a on/off rotary switch. BadNews has a momentary switch that he has to hold while he resets the PID, which has the advantage that you cannot "forget" that you silenced the alarm. I have considered a normally closed, illuminated pushbutton that would only be illuminated when the alarm has been disabled, as a visual clue that it has been disabled.
 
Guess I need to figure out which box I am going to use and see how much space I have.
 
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