"Do A Search" <--- I'm sick of seeing this.

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DarkNoonBrewer

DarkNoonBrewer

Steve Trott
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Location
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The entire idea of discussion forum is to have discussions on a topic. Just because the conversation was already made, doesn't mean it cant happen again. Most of the time, the answer to some questions on a topic are not exactly stated in the title of the thread. When the search is performed, the information you are after is a few pages deep, then summarized somewhere in the middle. It is then followed by immense cometary on the arguments or agreements to consensus on the end result.

What gives? Most of the time, the easy answer can be typed in one or two sentences. How about this, forget your watch, ask me the time of the day, and I'll tell you to google it. Ask me how my day was, and you can facebook that. Ask me where my mugs are, and I'll say search the kitchen.

P.S. I did a search on this topic, and nothing immediately came up.
 
"site:homebrewtalk.com yeast starter" is a great way to search any site. I've found tons of information this way, leading to not having to post as much.
 
I kinda agree with the OP, but I also don't. Quite often "Do a search" is the best genuine advice. Other times, it's just someone being an asshat. Some questions are time sensitive, others are not.

Really though, a search is the place to start. If you don't find exactly what you are looking for, then ask away. :)
 
Here's my pat answer to this, which if you HAD searched for it, I'm sure you would have found. :D


Considering that every new brewer question is answered about 10 times a day every day, usually by me because people won't look at stickys or use the search...Why shouldn't we suggest they do a bit of work on occasion?

Seriously, I bet you there is no beginner question that hasn't already been answered really effectively on here already. Not just by me, but by a lot of people......

So why should we re-invent the wheel because you are too lazy to look around a bit. I mean we're not mean about it, like some other places, we just want you to know that it's already been covererd repeatedly.

The thing to me about searching is two fold, and I really hate coming off as a search nazi, BUT

1) There is a huuuge amount of state of the art brewing info on here...info that is even more current than palmer (only becasue it takes 2-3 years to get a book out.) Some of us have spent hours writing stuff up, like blogs or long answers to basic questions, including searching for links like audio and video casts to answer those basic questions...And we want you to know it exists, and we want you to utilize it to be the best damn brewer's you can be.

SO when I say it's been covered before, I'm not saying "hey a$$hat, use the search."

I'm saying "Hey, there's some kick ass info on that very topic, put together from some amazing brewers, and it's free, right here, you don't need to buy a book....all you need to do is click "search" and maybe play with the words a couple times...


2) A lot of the "kick ass brewers" who are here, and were here before I got here have stopped answering the same noob questions over and over. Most of those people get tired of it after a couple months, and just ignore these threads...From what people tell me, for doing it constantly for a year, I'm an anomoly....maybe because of my 'calling" (yes I am a minister for the 10,000th time ) I have an almost pathological need to help people...whether it's in a church or in a brewery.

Which means that the people who might be best able to answer your basic question are NOT going to because they did it 6 months ago, and feel that that's enough. Or they are no longer here...but their info is still here and still valuable...

So that really means that if you just start a thread, especially if you are asking about "Stainless vs Aluminum" or Plastic waterbottles or "is my beer ruined," or "what;s your opinion on...?" You may not GET THE BEST INFORMATION YOU COULD BE GETTING You could be getting the same outdated "party line" out of Palmer or Papazian, (which are actually several years of in the case of Charlie over a decade old) when there was some new discovery a few weeks back that we all talked to death and learned from...and we want you to know about it too...

I also have found, as someone that answers a lot of questions everyday, that if a person reads a thread on their "basic question" first and maybe bumps that thread up, that their question has a lot more depth than it might have been...because maybe they zeroed in on an issue from one or more of the posts in a thread...and then rather than,

"What's that fuzzy stuff on top of my beer?" To "Oh I thought my beer was infected, now I know it's a krauzen, it's normal, and it has proteins and other things in it, so what kinda proteins are there, do they come from the yeasts, the wort or both, and should I skim it or not?"

Which is more fun for me to answer because it may lead me to search, or to google or to recall some fuzzy bit of info I heard on a podcast and go search for it for you...and for me...

So get over it. If people keep asking the same question, we ARE going to suggest they search for the answers that are already here. And about 99% of the time we are going to be nice about.

Heck most of the time I do the searching for the person and post the links. But I can't do it 100% of the time, since I often am now answering from my smart phone, and it's not easy to post links from there. And if I can't I usually provide the search words that I use in the post, like give them the paramters that I use.

But again, whether you like it or not, the times we do suggest someone search it is on the questions that get asked over and over and over and over, where the answer is going to be exactly the same, which was more than likely given over and over and over. And hasn't changed in the 10,000 times we've answered it before. So why do we need to re-invent the wheel or beat a dead horse to the ground on the same answers that are already there?
 
Note, please see similar threads at the bottom of the page!

Also, once you've seen hundreds of threads with the following titles get back to us:

"My Beer is Not Fermenting"
"Is my Beer Ruined/Infected?"
"My Beer Did Not Carb"

If not for the tireless efforts of a few people working their cut and paste magic I'm not sure we would survive! ;)

My favorite are the threads that starts with a scenario, for example no airlock activity, and Revvy and others take their time to do the standard, RDWHAHB, responses and then someone else posts something like this in the same discussion:

"Not to hijack the OP's thread, but I've got almost the same scenario. I'm worried that my beer is ruined. Thoughts?"

Yes sir, yes, everything we told the OP about not worrying should be ignored by you, please pay no attention to it, which you've clearly already done, and be warned that YOUR beer is obviously a lost cause. Woe unto you!!!
 
DarkNoonBrewer said:
What gives? Most of the time, the easy answer can be typed in one or two sentences.
Click to expand...

Uh, not really. There are very few "easy answers" to brewer's questions. There are usually long discussions and multiple viewpoints, since there are as many different ways to brew as there are brewers. There is often no single
pat answer to any brewer's questions.
 
Nicely put Revvy :rockin:

I almost pride myself for my beer knowledge (for a newbie anyways) with less than 15 posts. I search everything. It's fun getting tons of differing opinions anyways.
 
Shooter said:
Note, please see similar threads at the bottom of the page!
Click to expand...

LOL, have you SEEN what popped up as "similar threads" for this this thinly disquised hunk of trolling?!?!!

Change Your Default Facebook Language to "English (Pirate)"

And others that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. :)
 
When you are a new brewer, search results can be a lot of info to take in all at once. You can be on your first batch, and need quick info directly related to a specific problem. It's not easy being new at this game. The last thing you need when trying to learn the basics is a thread that goes all over the place discussing topics that have little relevance to the first time brewer.

Thankfully, there is always someone willing to answer with info rather than a "Search it" response.

Other times, the more experienced brewer is abused by dumb questions. It's just the way of life.
 
Revvy said:
LOL, have you SEEN what popped up as "similar threads" for this this thinly disquised hunk of trolling?!?!!

Change Your Default Facebook Language to "English (Pirate)"

And others that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. :)
Click to expand...

I know, pretty nice isn't it!! :D

Actually, I think I'm going to check out that Facebook language one...and then finally get around to joining Facebook I guess?!?
 
Frankly, I'm all about the quick search before asking. About 99% of the time, you find your answer within 5 minutes. Or at least I do. But there is an art to searching. I just believe that (1) most people don't care to take the time; (2) a large number of people are lazy by nature and therefore prefer to let someone else do the work for them (take a look at our rather large welfare class); and (3) many people are somehow turned off by learning something they're not interested in and would rather have to do little of that to get to their interest. My $0.02.
 
DarkNoonBrewer said:
What gives? Most of the time, the easy answer can be typed in one or two sentences.
Click to expand...

Revvy said:
Uh, not really. There are very few "easy answers" to brewer's questions.
Click to expand...

If it's an easy question being asked, then it's being asked by a beginner brewer.

Sure, you MIGHT be able to answer in a single sentence, or even a single word. However, if I am going to take the time to answer an "easy" question, then I am going to take EXTRA time to try and educate the person who asked it so that they not only know the answer, but understand why the answer is what it is.

I try my best to answer questions that have been asked to death, but (as mentioned earlier), sometimes I get tired of it and just can't bring myself to answer yet another "no activity in airlock after 8 hours!" message.

Luckily, when I'm feeling like that, somebody else isn't and the question gets answered by someone else.
 
Did you know that if you do a search for search, you fine that there are almost no threads by folks bitching like this that we are rude about telling folks to search? Or that they are sick of seeing "hey noob search" answers on here? Actually if you search search you find that the majority of the thread posters are actually hoping for a better search, or looking for tips to make search work a little better for them. Or actually praising this forum because they searched on their own, and found the plethora of answers to their basic question, and got the info they needed. Or they had suggestions to make search better.

But I could find very few complaining that we were telling people meanly to search. So it seems that the OP is in the minority here.

In fact as someone on here all the time, I really see very few instances of folks, myself included, telling folks simply to use the search, except in the most helpful ways, or for those threads that we mentioned that get asked 10 times a day, on those repeated subjects, like glass vs plastic, is my beer ruined, my beers not carbed, etc, but even on those threads, we still provide plenty of info.
 
Revvy said:
Here's my pat answer to this, which if you HAD searched for it, I'm sure you would have found. :D


Considering that every new brewer question is answered about 10 times a day every day, usually by me because people won't look at stickys or use the search...Why shouldn't we suggest they do a bit of work on occasion?

Seriously, I bet you there is no beginner question that hasn't already been answered really effectively on here already. Not just by me, but by a lot of people......

So why should we re-invent the wheel because you are too lazy to look around a bit. I mean we're not mean about it, like some other places, we just want you to know that it's already been covererd repeatedly.

The thing to me about searching is two fold, and I really hate coming off as a search nazi, BUT

1) There is a huuuge amount of state of the art brewing info on here...info that is even more current than palmer (only becasue it takes 2-3 years to get a book out.) Some of us have spent hours writing stuff up, like blogs or long answers to basic questions, including searching for links like audio and video casts to answer those basic questions...And we want you to know it exists, and we want you to utilize it to be the best damn brewer's you can be.

SO when I say it's been covered before, I'm not saying "hey a$$hat, use the search."

I'm saying "Hey, there's some kick ass info on that very topic, put together from some amazing brewers, and it's free, right here, you don't need to buy a book....all you need to do is click "search" and maybe play with the words a couple times...


2) A lot of the "kick ass brewers" who are here, and were here before I got here have stopped answering the same noob questions over and over. Most of those people get tired of it after a couple months, and just ignore these threads...From what people tell me, for doing it constantly for a year, I'm an anomoly....maybe because of my 'calling" (yes I am a minister for the 10,000th time ) I have an almost pathological need to help people...whether it's in a church or in a brewery.

Which means that the people who might be best able to answer your basic question are NOT going to because they did it 6 months ago, and feel that that's enough. Or they are no longer here...but their info is still here and still valuable...

So that really means that if you just start a thread, especially if you are asking about "Stainless vs Aluminum" or Plastic waterbottles or "is my beer ruined," or "what;s your opinion on...?" You may not GET THE BEST INFORMATION YOU COULD BE GETTING You could be getting the same outdated "party line" out of Palmer or Papazian, (which are actually several years of in the case of Charlie over a decade old) when there was some new discovery a few weeks back that we all talked to death and learned from...and we want you to know about it too...

I also have found, as someone that answers a lot of questions everyday, that if a person reads a thread on their "basic question" first and maybe bumps that thread up, that their question has a lot more depth than it might have been...because maybe they zeroed in on an issue from one or more of the posts in a thread...and then rather than,

"What's that fuzzy stuff on top of my beer?" To "Oh I thought my beer was infected, now I know it's a krauzen, it's normal, and it has proteins and other things in it, so what kinda proteins are there, do they come from the yeasts, the wort or both, and should I skim it or not?"

Which is more fun for me to answer because it may lead me to search, or to google or to recall some fuzzy bit of info I heard on a podcast and go search for it for you...and for me...

So get over it. If people keep asking the same question, we ARE going to suggest they search for the answers that are already here. And about 99% of the time we are going to be nice about.

Heck most of the time I do the searching for the person and post the links. But I can't do it 100% of the time, since I often am now answering from my smart phone, and it's not easy to post links from there. And if I can't I usually provide the search words that I use in the post, like give them the paramters that I use.

But again, whether you like it or not, the times we do suggest someone search it is on the questions that get asked over and over and over and over, where the answer is going to be exactly the same, which was more than likely given over and over and over. And hasn't changed in the 10,000 times we've answered it before. So why do we need to re-invent the wheel or beat a dead horse to the ground on the same answers that are already there?
Click to expand...

lol - Did you write all this on your smart phone too.



kidding - kidding



As devils advocate. Isn't this why the "beginner brewer" forum is there? Just asking. Perhaps a notice in the beginners forum about searching first or perhaps a FAQ style post of most frequently asked questions would help curb a lot of these repeated beginner questions. I know there is a WIKI but I doubt many know (especially beginners) it exists.

But they will probably just ask away anyways.

Having said all that. As a 10 year brewer and only recently having found this site - I wish I had a place like this when I first started. So many things I did wrong or inefficiently. With only Papazia's book for info or asking the guy at the LHBS.
 
Wow, i really got everybody going on this. I actually posted in the sober state of mind... wrong forum? Anywho, thanks everyone for the input. I still find it frustrating to read through threads with 200 posts about dozens of different topics that should have been made into several different single posts. Also, when searching for the problems or benefits of particular processes or ideas, it's difficult to stumble across a summery of the question at hand. For instance, the last issue i inquired about was dealing with which problems arise when using canned pumpkin in the mash. There were so many threads i came across that posted excellent results. One of the "Do a search" guys took some time and posted a link to a thread with an answer in it. And I still dont know if his summary is all inclusive. I'm just saying the a search doesn't always give the researcher a complete summary of a question.

And to those who have seen/ contributed/ completely read/ the all telling fountain of knowledge threads, simply state the name of the thread to make the search easier.

"pumpkin in the mash" results in tons of threads with numerous recipes, mash temps, yeast types, first pumpkin stories, exploding bottle stories ect.

If I knew the name of the all telling thread that had the summary on the first page, I wouldn't have to read threads for four hours.
 
DarkNoonBrewer said:
Wow, i really got everybody going on this. I actually posted in the sober state of mind... wrong forum? Anywho, thanks everyone for the input. I still find it frustrating to read through threads with 200 posts about dozens of different topics that should have been made into several different single posts. Also, when searching for the problems or benefits of particular processes or ideas, it's difficult to stumble across a summery of the question at hand. For instance, the last issue i inquired about was dealing with which problems arise when using canned pumpkin in the mash. There were so many threads i came across that posted excellent results. One of the "Do a search" guys took some time and posted a link to a thread with an answer in it. And I still dont know if his summary is all inclusive. I'm just saying the a search doesn't always give the researcher a complete summary of a question.

And to those who have seen/ contributed/ completely read/ the all telling fountain of knowledge threads, simply state the name of the thread to make the search easier.

"pumpkin in the mash" results in tons of threads with numerous recipes, mash temps, yeast types, first pumpkin stories, exploding bottle stories ect.

If I knew the name of the all telling thread that had the summary on the first page, I wouldn't have to read threads for four hours.
Click to expand...

I get it. Yes I do. :)
 
I work in I.T. and if my customers knew how to google I'd be out of a job.
 
Can't tell you how many times a customer has called with a question and I ask them to hold while I ask my "tech specialist" (I'm a one person company).;)
 
OK, all is good. We are playing nice now.


Revvy, you sure seem like your old self...not that you are old! Sheez that would mean I'm old.:eek:

I sure am glad I read your delima, I put a prayer in my sig and now I cannot get back to the thread to see how everything is going. :drunk:
 
Do these people walk up to the water cooler at work and say; "Some of us already discussed this topic, talk about something else."

It's a DISCUSSION forum. Talk about whatever the heck you want (within forum rules of course). If you don't want to participate in a particular discussion; fine, don't.

It does seem a bit strange to say "Do a search" and then post a wall of text.
 
I try to limit my use of "do a search" by actually doing the search and posting a link to the exact post I think answers the question. Then again, I use this site as an excuse not to do any real work.
 
Quite honestly, I do have to agree that people telling someone to "Do A Search" is pretty rare on this site. If it really gets people PO'd then I would suggest they do not venture to some of the other forums I've seen.
 
Telling someone to do a search is like the "teach a man to fish" saying. Of course, there are polite and impolite ways of telling people to search.
 
I've told them to do a search. I offer any (little, unqualified) advice I might have, and throw in some search terms.
Like the "What fridge for a kegerator" threads. Every time, and it's been beat to death! And then I read every one. And made my own. :drunk:
I understand the dilemma now - As a n00b I didn't (Still don't?) know what to search for! Krausawhat? It was foam back then. And I didn't know if i really liked it sitting on top of by beer!

I also think the search function sucks most of the time. It'll get me where I want to go, about 10 posts in. And that's when I know what I'm looking for!
Case in point, a thread yesterday. It was another leaky corny thread. I said replace the o-rings (along with a bunch of other guys), and mentioned that I bought a 4 lifetime supply from McMaster for $4.00.
OP came back somewhat stunned I think that a set of o-rings shouldn't cost $5.00
He didn't know to search for it. But he asked for the part numbers. I tried to search for it. Nothin. About 5 times with different terms - Even though I've been to 3 or 4 threads in the past that had the links in them.
So I pulled them from my McMaster email invoice and posted them. Now they are in another thread, his corny won't leak any more, and we're all happy :tank:
 
I'm only a regular on one other forum, and I go there a lot more than here. The reason I do so is because if I only go to that forum once in a 24 hr period and check for new posts, I never get more than 10 pages. That's because the community there really fosters in new members the idea that using the search for tired topics is a good idea. Here, if I don't visit at least every 12 hrs, I always get the limit of 20 pages on my "new posts" search. I'm still a beginning brewer, and haven't been active on here very long despite my join date. Further, I haven't posted here very much because I do use the search. For example, I just got a Love controller, searched for how to wire it, and found very good information from BobbyM and others that was so helpful I didn't even need to ask a question. When I first started being active here, I would come here several times a day and just read any new posts I came across that sounded interesting. But I'm already so tired of seeing the same 5 or 6 questions put up as entirely new threads that I've curtailed that to once a day, and just searching for info I need. So I would say that the attitude you have a problem with (which I've never seen done in a rude manner on this forum, as others stated) would actually cause me to be a more active member if it were more prevalant.
 
SweetSounds said:
I've told them to do a search. I offer any (little, unqualified) advice I might have, and throw in some search terms.
Like the "What fridge for a kegerator" threads. Every time, and it's been beat to death! And then I read every one. And made my own. :drunk:
I understand the dilemma now - As a n00b I didn't (Still don't?) know what to search for! Krausawhat? It was foam back then. And I didn't know if i really liked it sitting on top of by beer!

I also think the search function sucks most of the time. It'll get me where I want to go, about 10 posts in. And that's when I know what I'm looking for!
Case in point, a thread yesterday. It was another leaky corny thread. I said replace the o-rings (along with a bunch of other guys), and mentioned that I bought a 4 lifetime supply from McMaster for $4.00.
OP came back somewhat stunned I think that a set of o-rings shouldn't cost $5.00
He didn't know to search for it. But he asked for the part numbers. I tried to search for it. Nothin. About 5 times with different terms - Even though I've been to 3 or 4 threads in the past that had the links in them.
So I pulled them from my McMaster email invoice and posted them. Now they are in another thread, his corny won't leak any more, and we're all happy :tank:
Click to expand...

It is a couple of layers of links in, but part numbers are in the Kegging FAQ's thread.
 

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