Plastic buckets, glass carboys, or wooden barrels

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BeerBrent

BeerBrent

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There is a lot of talk on what kind of vessel to age a Flanders in. I hear plastic buckets permeate too much air, whereas an airlock on a glass carboy doesn't let any air in. I've read about Raj's technique using an oak table leg and letting it act two-fold as a stopper and oak infusion. His method seems totally logical but it can crack the carboy, and how much wood actually sits in the fermenting wort? I was thinking, why not use a permeable foam stopper and oak cubes, thus you know exactly how much wood you've used and you let in more air then an air-lock and less then a plastic bucket. Has anyone used a foam stopper for the long duration?
 
If you wanted to do the oak method, you can use a drilled bunge and put an oak dowel through the hole into beer. This will not have as much surface area as the table leg, but will also not crack your carboy. :)
 
Using one of those foam stoppers for bulk aging would be akin to open air aging. I'd think you'd probably end up with vinegar no matter how thick the pellicle.

If you were so inclined, you could shave down the diameter of the oak chairleg/dowel so that the portion that rests in the neck area of the carboy is narrower and widen the stopper opening so you have a small rubber expansion joint. Or just forgo the whittling and use a Better Bottle.
 
what are the advantages of using better bottles for long term storage of the flanders? do they permeate as much air as buckets?
 
BeerBrent said:
what are the advantages of using better bottles for long term storage of the flanders? do they permeate as much air as buckets?
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no they are not as permeable as buckets but they are permeable enough to be a great alternative to wood barrels. on better bottle's website they have links to studies done on the permeability of the various fermentor materials. i have a flanders red in a better bottle right now that will be there another 9-10 months.
 
I believe they have similar attributes to a glass carboy, but since they aren't glass, the neck may not crack often wood leg expanded. Ive never used one so I can't say this is actually the case.
 
i use the oak dowel in the bung method (seems so cool to say) in my glass carboys- but my 60 g barrels seem to be getting oxygen a little faster. i have them submerged maybe 10" into the beer. i think oldsock has some info on his blog about the permeability numbers not making a lot of sense (that the numbers typically touted for the large tuns at rodenbach must be too low) and that there must be more oxygen getting in through the tun lids. I have used buckets with no vinegar issues, but i don't like tying them up that long (though they are cheaper than carboys- no wonder my wife calls me retarded)...
 
oh also - i've never used the table leg method- but i don't think enough beer would wick that high to swell the leg- the dowels are dry at the neck of the carboy, and they are smaller diameter, so i would think capillarity would be greater- maybe not though...
 
i'm thinking of doing a side by side one glass carboy and table leg and one better bottle with oak cubes and see what comes of each. thanks again for the great advice!
 
The only downside to doing experiments is that there is so much variation between each batch. You could do three batches side by side the exact same and they could taste entirely different. You may have clear differences between the three but you can't pinpoint that the stopper/bucket/carboy is what made the difference.
 
BryanThompson said:
The only downside to doing experiments is that there is so much variation between each batch. You could do three batches side by side the exact same and they could taste entirely different.
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And that's when you learn to blend batches to make a consistent final product. :ban:
 
Here's what Raj Apte says about preparing and using an oak leg:
Wood stoppers are an excellent way to turn a glass carboy into a sour ale aging tank. I use tapered red oak furniture legs ($2ea). White oak would be better, but I have'nt found a source yet. I trim the hardware off and toast the pegs in the oven at 375 for a couple of hours. Then I trim them to size for a given carboy (which do not generally have well shaped mouths). Fill with cleared flemish ale or lambic wort. For flemish ale, I fit the peg in hand tight. For lambic, I let the fermentation complete with a lock, top off with water, and then fit the peg a month later. Once the lambic started re-fermenting. I feared that the carboy would explode, but it didn't. The peg started pumping beer from the open end--ie the pressure was forcing beer through the grain of the wood to the top of the peg. At its peak, the peg wept like a spanish madonna. The carboy settled down in a week and seems OK. The peg will under-oxygenate the beer, but does provide a nice place for Brett to grow. Time will tell if this is a good way to preserve maltiness in flemish ales (look for results in fall 05).
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Looks like he didn't have issues with cracked carboys. May be the type of wood he used vs what others are using. The type of wood dictates the amount of absorption and swelling.
 

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