How to make a yeast starter - Pictorial

BrettV said:

I am making a starter; my question was whether or not the 16 oz water - 1/2 cup DME was sufficient for a 1.06 brew. I've seen some say it's good for up to 1.06, but other say it's only good up to 1.055. The starter is already made at this point, though, so I'm going to give it a go and see what happens.

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Your smack pack is good up to 1.055 without a starter, so the starter you made will be perfect. You'll be pitching a healthy bit of yeast and should have a nice clean fermentation.

stjackson said:

Another starter question: Let's say I wanted to do a big ol' 1-gallon starter for something like a 1.090 beer, but I didn't have a big enough vessel to do the starter. Then let's say I let a 1/2-gallon starter run it's course, decanted the spent wort and added a 1/2-gallon of fresh wort to the container. Would stepping up like that give me the same amount of growth as a 1-gallon starter?

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I would consider it overkill; I do fine with a 1/4 gal starter for 5.5 gallons of a beer that big. However, you can certainly do that if you wish. The only "issue" you may have is that pitching that much yeast will kick off a really hot initial ferment, which will produce more esters in your beer.

If you do want to pitch that much though, go for it. And as far as decanting goes, think about it- you probably don't want your 5.5 gallons of beer to be comprised of 1 gallon of starter wort, so you'll want to decant at least some of it anyway. Yes, when you decant you will be pouring off some less flocculant yeast, but the majority of it should be settled out anyway. In short, you should end up with about the same yeast count whichever way you do it. Happy Brewing!

Hey guys,

Great thread. Hoping you can answer my questions. Im going to make my first starter this week. Here is my plan. Brewing this afternoon and plan to pull an extra gallon or more of approx 1.04-1.05 wort from this batch to make my starter. Saturday I am going to be brewing Denny Conns Bourbon Vanilla Porter (12 Gal @ 1.078 OG). I bought two smack packs but am realizing that with this big of a beer it is a good idea to make a starter.

I have a 1/2 Gallon jug I was going to use for my starter but looking on Mr Maltys pitching rate it is 4L starter and 3 inital yeast packs. This sounds like overkill to me. Here are my thoughts. Smack one pack and allow to swell. add to 1/2 Gal jug and add wort (how much wort should I use?). Let this do its thing for a couple days. decant and add more wort (How much this time?).

I am thinking about doing two starters. one for each smack pack. then pitching a starter per 6 Gal. Ive heard I could just use a 2L bottle to make my other starter. Any issue with this?

Thanks!!

From MrMalty (http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm):

Q: Can I pitch just a portion of the pack/vial into the same sized starter and get the same amount of cells at the end?

No. You will get more replication from the fewer starting cells, but the end result will not be the same total number of cells. One vial or pack of liquid yeast (at 100 billion cells) into 2 liters of 1.040 wort results in approximately 220 billion cells. According to the Wyeast calculator, 1/10th of a vial or pack results in only 600 million cells. While there is more sugar for each cell to use, you’re trying to grow far more cells. You would need to introduce enough additional sugar and nutrients (especially oxygen) to reach the desired cell mass.

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I take a great deal of issue with the above math. If a vial of liquid yeast contains 100 billion cells then 1/10th of that vial should provide roughly 10 billion cells, no? And that should be BEFORE it reproduces more cells with introduction of wort.
If what MrMalty says is correct then putting 10 billion cells to wort results in a drastic loss of cells down to only 600 million.

Anyone care to explain this?

My main concern is that I expect to take a single vial of WLP007 and split it between (2) starters at a volume of 1L each. My back of the napkin calculations suggest I should get about 180-200 Billion cells per 1L starter so that when I pitch BOTH onto a 5 gallon batch I should be pitching a total of of ~350-400 billion cells (OG 1.087)

Does that sound like a sound approach?

Br1dge: Yeah- Mr. Malty can be a little much IMHO... If you go back to the very first post in this oh so long thread, there are the instructions for making a starter. Notice that the volume of the starter is only about a pint, or a 1/2L. That amount is ample for a 5.5 gallon batch. Double it for twice the volume = 1L. For a beer of 1.078, I probably wouldn't step it up anymore, but you certainly can (and after 24-48 hrs decant off some of the starter "beer" before adding more wort), or use twice the original starter volume (in this case, 2L). Either way, I know that I wouldn't use 4L and three smack packs.

Seether: You should definitely be fine doing that.

Honestly, the best thing about a starter is it gets your yeast ready, a starter is never a terrible idea. Honestly that's only showing about a 1.023 gravity, and you're pitching enough yeast for a 5 gallon batch. That's not going to be enough to be called a starter. That's more of a midnight snack

Anyway, sorry the reply was a couple weeks late, I've been unable to login.

I'm starting to go the starter route, so this thread is very helpful, especially since I did not do it right for my last batch which was actually 2 10 gal batches. I had a couple of pint jars of washed S-05. Decanted and poured in a 2 gal water cooler with about 4 L of wort and let go for 24 hours before I split pitched in the two separate batches (both were in the 1.085 range). The first batch did not take off well 12 hours afterwards, so I split a dry pack of S-05 and it was well underway within 6 hours. The second batch must have gotten more yeast because it was starting to roll in 12 hours. The second batch dropped to 1.012 in 10 days, the first was down to 1.015.

This thread was great, I finished three cups of coffee reading it and feel like I maybe even learned something.

One question I have in reading this -- by adding the additional one or more liters of starter aren't we just reducing our gravity that much more and diluting our beer? Especially the high gravity beers, adding three liters or more seems like it would have a really negative affect.

I would suspect there is sufficient sugar in the starter wort to offset dilution and decanting is a superb idea for 5gal and under batches.

Hey, so that bourbon barrel porter I'm brewing fermented beautifully with the 16 oz. starter. My OG was even a little higher than expected (1.069) but active fermentation started in about 12 hours, and in a week's time the yeasties brought that puppy all the way down to 1.014, which is even lower than the estimated FG. Took a taste today as I transferred it into my secondary, and it was brilliant. Practically like a drinkable cask ale already. Can't WAIT to add the bourbon and oak cubes in a few weeks!

So the lesson here is that for a 5 gallon batch, even all the way up to 1.07, a 16 oz. started is totally sufficient.

I made my first starter yesterday before seeing this thread. My beer is a 1.073 6 gallon batch, so I made a 1.5L starter in a growler to be safe.

Anyway, I have been intermittently shaking it when I think of it and just a few minutes ago, I obviously shook it too hard because a huge blast of liquid came shooting out the airlock and sprayed a big spot on my ceiling!! What a shock!! Didn't make a big mess and fortunately SWMBO is away right now and missed the chaos...

I've since swapped the airlock for a sanitized piece of foil... And I won't shake so hard next time...

Has that ever happened to anyone else?

I also spilled most of my tincture of iodine on to the dining room table earlier so needless to say, I've had better nights.

Great Thread, I have a question about the size of the vessel for the starter. I don't have access to a flask or 1/2 gal growler. Is a 1 gal glass jug to large/too much headspace for a 1-2 liter starter? what about a new 2 liter plastic water bottle? thanks for your help

hogie1980 said:

I've since swapped the airlock for a sanitized piece of foil... And I won't shake so hard next time...

Has that ever happened to anyone else?

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Doesn't happen to me because I wouldn't airlock a starter vessel. Yes, you want CO2 to get out and you want to keep contamination from getting in but you also want oxygenated air to filter in to oxygenate the wort. Foil works for this purpose. You can also use polyfill or those foam stoppers HBSes will sell you.

Friday, I made a starter using White Labs London Ale and pitched it about 32 hours later. I used a mason jar (sanitized) and covered tightly with cling wrap. Gave it a swirl every couple hours....

I never saw a krausen fomr but I could see the yeast settling (chunks and sediment) in the bottom of the jar. Should I have seen a krausen form or was the sediment that formed enough to tell me that my yeast was ok and active?

VAShooter said:

Friday, I made a starter using White Labs London Ale and pitched it about 32 hours later. I used a mason jar (sanitized) and covered tightly with cling wrap. Gave it a swirl every couple hours....

I never saw a krausen fomr but I could see the yeast settling (chunks and sediment) in the bottom of the jar. Should I have seen a krausen form or was the sediment that formed enough to tell me that my yeast was ok and active?

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A white layer of yeast sediment in the bottom of the starter is a good visual indication that things are "A-OK"

Perfect! That's what I had going on. However, it's been 14 hours and no activity in the airlock yet. Not sweating it yet though.

I've never seen krausen on a starter. It'll foam a little when I swirl it, but that's it. And 14 hours without activity is not cause for concern. Sometimes it takes a little longer.

Made my first starter today, it was very easy. I used some DME, White labs WLP001, and my home made stir plate! My question is, can I take a little out, step that little bit up to 500mls or so. In a sense make another starter, let it decant (I think that's the word I want) and pour off the top and store that concentrated yeast in my WLP vial and be able to store it in the fridge? Then I should have my own little supply of WLP001? If so do I have to stabilize it or something? should I put nutrient in there with it? Any ideas how long it might last?
Isn't this kind of what the big breweries do when the have a proprietary yeast?

Very interesting thread! I do have a question though. It seems as though most of this has applied to ales. Does it also apply to lagers? What about a California Common. I've got White Labs SF Lager yeast. I'll be doing a half-batch BIAB. Guy at the LHS said I could just pitch the vial since I'll be doing a half-batch. Another guy said to make a starter even for a half-batch. I wouldn't mind making a starter, but I like the idea of just pitching the WL vial. What to do??

BigJoeBrews said:

Made my first starter today, it was very easy. I used some DME, White labs WLP001, and my home made stir plate! My question is, can I take a little out, step that little bit up to 500mls or so. In a sense make another starter, let it decant (I think that's the word I want) and pour off the top and store that concentrated yeast in my WLP vial and be able to store it in the fridge? Then I should have my own little supply of WLP001? If so do I have to stabilize it or something? should I put nutrient in there with it? Any ideas how long it might last?
Isn't this kind of what the big breweries do when the have a proprietary yeast?

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You're probably better off washing the yeast. There's a sticky in the yeast forum.

Ok, I did a little more searching and research... and I made a starter. Keeping fingers crossed it will be ready Tues. Otherwise, Wed is its deadline!

I'm brewing a Pliny the Elder Clone this Friday and have two vials of White Labs 001 yeast for pitching.

Should I still make a starter? If so, what's the recommended amount of DME I need to make a starter for two vials of 001?

antidentite said:

I'm brewing a Pliny the Elder Clone this Friday and have two vials of White Labs 001 yeast for pitching.

Should I still make a starter? If so, what's the recommended amount of DME I need to make a starter for two vials of 001?

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It certainly wouldn't hurt. I would think that a 750ml to 1000ml starter with about 2/3 or so cups of DME should work great. Somebody else will probably chime in with a more optimal starter, but SOME starter will be better than NO starter.

I probably differ than most on this board about starters. I almost always make them, but never use more than one smack pack/vial in the process. I use a 4:1 ratio of water to DME. So a 1 liter(4 cups) starter would get 1 cup of DME. I let that go for a few days, cold crash, then decant and step it up with another starter if I'm going over a 1.080 OG. If not, I just use it.

I'm a cheap bastard, and if I go thru the trouble of making a starter, I don't see it as just proving my yeast as viable...I'm making more yeast.

But...that's probably an unpopular stance.

I prepared a starter for a Munich Helles based on this thread. I did not decant the wort from the yeast starter prior to pitching into my lager.

Today I read this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/lager-starter-231069/

and it indicates I should decant the wort and just add the cake at the bottom.

Did I mess up my lager?

Should I be decanting the liquid from my starter?

Since I didn't see this question get picked up, I want to paraphrase Stuntman's question from page 5. What's preferable: making a starter large enough to save and spread over several batches, or washing yeast after the ferment? Or does this fall under the category of "equal but different"?

maltoftheearth: no worries. It'll be fine. You are just adding a little bit of beer into your soon-to-be beer. It'll ferment and taste great, so don't worry. It is still a good idea to decant off most of the starter wort beer and then swirl the cake at the bottom before pitching, but that is really only to keep your recipe and finished product as precise and predictable as possible, but it will not "hurt" your beer in any way.

Supermoth: Personally, I don't care to go to all of the trouble of making some giant starter and then trying to divide it up (and oxygenate it in the process) to save for multiple batches. The way I see it, when you make a 5gal batch of beer, you have also just made a giant starter, so just wash your yeast. It's not the best idea to wash after every batch because some brews are not conducive to leaving behind healthy yeast, namely really high alcohol beers and really hoppy beers. Hop oils coat the yeast cells, so unless you plan on doing an acid wash on the yeast, just harvest from your next less hoppy brew. High alcohol levels pretty much just eff your yeast over, then you are dealing with a lot more dead or mutated yeast, so just harvest from your next session beer.

ok here's a big newbie question but should I make a starter for dry yeast also or only liquid ?

This thread is on of the reasons I love this site, it makes every new thing I want to try informative and easy!

i do all the same but i just leave the lid on tight then crack it just a lil to let the co2 ecscape never had any problems

Aschecte said:

ok here's a big newbie question but should I make a starter for dry yeast also or only liquid ?

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Rehydrate dry yeast according to manufacturer's instructions. Make a starter for liquid yeast. If you have harvested yeast from a yeast cake (Bernie has an awesome thread on how to yeast wash- it's really really easy!) you make a starter, even if the yeast was originally a dry yeast because now, obviously, it is liquid slurry.

Dry yeast packs have a much higher cell count than what comes in the liquid yeasts. A starter is always recommended for liquid, but not usually necessary for dry yeasts, unless they are old or you are making a REALLY strong beer (and even then you could throw two packs in for the price of one liquid yeast.)

DO NOT rehydrate yeast according to manufacturer's instructions. Many of them say to heat water to 90°F or to boil water and let it cool. Many brewers end up killing their yeast. I always recommend to just pour it in.

Again, there is a very high cell count...what is lost from not rehydrating is not a problem and will only give a tiny amount of nutrient to the remaining yeast, which could be seen as a slight benefit. Pitching your yeast dry won't cause any problems.

Well, i've been reading this thread all night, finally got to the end and see that its still active so i'll ask this question here (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/made-my-1st-starter-gravity-off-charts-234355/)

How come the gravity of my starter ended up at 1.060? Is that going to stress out the yeast? The beer i'm brewing is 1.047.

It's a bit high, but it will be fine. There is enough yeast to take care of it and they will propogate, which is the most important. I make most of my starters at 1.050.

Not sure why you ended up with a 1.060 starter (other than using volume instead of weight) but I wouldn't worry about it.

I see signs of activity in the morning so i guess it worked out fine. Will be careful and try to weight the DME rather then use cups next time.

I didn't read through the 1st 15 pages of this thread so I'll apologize now if I'm stating the obvious...

The starter is intended to get the yeast going and to grow the number of yeast cells to the right number to best handle the fermentation process. One of the reasons you should aim for < 1050 starters is that you want to grow the yeast, not make beer. Too much fermentable content will push the yeast into producing beer, not growing cell count. Will it matter, no... just a target.

Hey guys so I just made my second yeast starter, and the final result is always questionable. Why do I end up with 400 mL of starter? I've heard that this can sometimes produce negative effects. Should I boil up some water and add it to the starter in order to increase the volume?

Also, how in the hell do you guys get gravity readings of your yeast starters? Wouldn't the sample be somewhere around a quarter of the yeast starter, which risks contamination?

DeathBrewer said:

DO NOT rehydrate yeast according to manufacturer's instructions. Many of them say to heat water to 90°F or to boil water and let it cool. Many brewers end up killing their yeast. I always recommend to just pour it in.

Again, there is a very high cell count...what is lost from not rehydrating is not a problem and will only give a tiny amount of nutrient to the remaining yeast, which could be seen as a slight benefit. Pitching your yeast dry won't cause any problems.

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When using dry yeasts I also pretty much only pitch without rehydrating and have never had an issue, although now I only use liquid or washed "dry" yeast. Still, I don't understand how anyone could kill their yeast by following the instructions, unless they are pitching into water that hasn't cooled enough, in which case they haven't followed instructions. Either way, do what works with your dry yeasts, but starters for liquid are definitely a must for best results.

LarsonLE said:

Hey guys so I just made my second yeast starter, and the final result is always questionable. Why do I end up with 400 mL of starter? I've heard that this can sometimes produce negative effects. Should I boil up some water and add it to the starter in order to increase the volume?

Also, how in the hell do you guys get gravity readings of your yeast starters? Wouldn't the sample be somewhere around a quarter of the yeast starter, which risks contamination?

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So I went ahead and added some water, because after I found out that I would read just more than a 1 L starter (mymalty) in order to get the best yeast starter possible. I'm sitting at around a 1 L starter.