Lactic acid addition help, please!

I'm playing around with EZ Water Calc. According to my grain bill and after diluting and adding salts to get my water in to range, the calculator says I need to add 2ml of lactic acid to get my pH where I want it. Here's my question;

Does that mean I add 2ml to all water, or do I add 2ml to mash water and also 2ml to sparge water? Or do I only need to use it in the mash? I searched on this, but I get confusing answers..

Thanks!

To my knowledge, EZ doesn't provide any guidance on acidification of sparging water. You'd have to use Bru'n Water to figure that out.

With regard to the need to add acid to the sparging water, it depends on the tap water quality. If the water has very low alkalinity (like RO or distilled water), then its quite possible that acid is not needed in the sparging water. But if the tap water has high alkalinity, then acidification of the sparge water is definitely needed.

Thanks Mabrungard!

The pH of my water is 7.7, so I'm guessing that's pretty high alkalinity as compared to normal?

I've tried a few times to download Bru'n Water, but for some reason my computer just won't do it. The program says to "click on the downward pointing arrow on the right to download", but on my view there is no downward pointing arrow.

I know I'll get hell for this, but I'm winging it on pH. I'm just going by what EZ says, as I don't have a pH meter yet. I'll be buying one in a month or so. I'm brewing this weekend and according to EZ my pH needs to be lower, so I figured I'd try adding the lactic without actually taking readings. I know it's risky, but I've always used EZ in the past with good results.

So, with all of this said, how would you go about adding acid to the sparge water? Should I also add 2ml to the sparge water, along with the mash water?

Stauffbier said:

So, with all of this said, how would you go about adding acid to the sparge water? Should I also add 2ml to the sparge water, along with the mash water?

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You need to know the starting pH and alkalinity of your water. From there, Bru'n Water will help. https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/home/files/Brun Water v1_13us.xls

Thanks afr0byte, but as I mentioned above my computer won't download Bru'n water. I tried your link, but nothing happens. I'm not sure why, but I don't know enough about computers to do anything about it I guess. I do have a municipal water report. Just my local report, not from Ward Labs. The Ward Labs report is another thing on my to-do list.

If it helps..
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 = 115
pH = 7.7

Here's the grain bill;
8 lbs Maris Otter Malt; Bairds Malt
.7 lbs American Munich
.8 lbs American Vienna
.75 lbs Belgian Caramunich
.25 lbs Coffee Malt

Stauffbier said:

Thanks afr0byte, but as I mentioned above my computer won't download Bru'n water. I tried your link, but nothing happens. I'm not sure why, but I don't know enough about computers to do anything about it I guess. I do have a municipal water report. Just my local report, not from Ward Labs. The Ward Labs report is another thing on my to-do list.

Click to expand...

You can't even right click the link and do a save as? EDIT: Also, do you have Excel on your computer (Libre Office would be a free alternative.)?

I think I figured out a way to out fox the dumb Google interface so that you can download either version more easily.

Visit the Bru'n Water site and report back if you have a problem downloading.

I'm still having problems downloading it. I installed Libre Office to see if it would help, but nothing changed. I'm thinking it's some kind of setting on my computer that I can't figure out. When I click this;


Download US Version of Bru'n Water or the d' it gives me a download window with three links... "Open", "Save", or "Save as".. When I click on any of those three options the window closes and nothing at all happens. It won't open or save for some reason...

Stauffbier said:

I'm still having problems downloading it. I installed Libre Office to see if it would help, but nothing changed. I'm thinking it's some kind of setting on my computer that I can't figure out. When I click this;


Download US Version of Bru'n Water or the d' it gives me a download window with three links... "Open", "Save", or "Save as".. When I click on any of those three options the window closes and nothing at all happens. It won't open or save for some reason...

Click to expand...

Something is fishy. I can understand you not seeing anything, potentially, with open or save, but save as should pop up a dialog to let you choose where to save the file. You can always try downloading firefox or chrome (if you're using Internet Explorer), and using one of those to download the file.

Right - the lactic additions pertain to the mash (as I understand it) in EZ. With that being said, unless your water is WAY off I don't think you're going to be exceeding 6.0 pH in the mash during the sparge to worry about tannin extraction so there's likely not a need to acidify the sparge water. (Here's where I wait for Brungard to school me....) You're likely fine just acidifying the mash and monitoring pH (if needed) during sparge with your standard water.

A total alkalinity of 115 diluted to 1:1 would come down to 57, diluted 2:1 to 39 etc. If you have diluted to either of those levels it is unlikely that you need to acidify your sparge water. You could probably sparge with your undiluted water and get most of the extract before pH goes above 6. It would be best in any event to monitor runoff pH if you can.

If you do bust 6 it isn't a big deal. It doesn't matter one whit if the pH goes above 6 unless this results harsh tasting beer. If it does just let it lager for a time and the phenols will complex and fall out.

mmonacel said:

With that being said, unless your water is WAY off I don't think you're going to be exceeding 6.0 pH in the mash during the sparge to worry about tannin extraction so there's likely not a need to acidify the sparge water. (Here's where I wait for Brungard to school me....) You're likely fine just acidifying the mash and monitoring pH (if needed) during sparge with your standard water.

Click to expand...

The need to acidify is primarily contingent on the alkalinity of the tap water. Tap water pH is not a primary criterion. There are places with low alkalinity that do not require acidification to reduce alkalinity, but there are places in which the brewers really do need to acidify. As AJ points out, using RO or distilled water or diluting tap water with them will reduce alkalinity concerns.

Tannin extraction is a concern with elevated mash pH during sparging. As AJ mentions, the magnitude of the water alkalinity is a factor in deciding how concerned a brewer should be with tannin extraction. But, another factor that brewers should be aware of is the potential to raise the overall pH of the pre-boil wort in the kettle. A couple of tenths high can adversely affect hop flavor and utilization which generally makes the beer flavor 'rougher'. Aiming for a pre-boil wort pH around 5.4 is a decent goal.

Thanks for all of the useful info everyone! I will be diluting this batch 1:1... I almost always have to dilute because my water has a ton of sodium in it. I'm just going to add acid to the mash, and leave the sparge water alone. Is pH of sparge water as much of a concern with batch sparging as it is with fly sparging? Just curious.. I'll be ordering that pH meter very soon. I usually brew a lot of dark beers, and up until now I've never had a problem getting my predicted pH in range. Usually adjusting my salts according to style and using the right dilution is all I've needed.

On another note, I'm still not sure what's going on with me trying to download Bru'n Water. I never have problems downloading. There just seems to be something about this particular site that my computer doesn't like.