Help! My chugger pump just isn't working out. . .

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czucker

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This weekend I set out to try my new pump for the first time. I have it mounted in a toolbox in the configuration below.

For the moment I am trying to use it on my stovetop to push water from my HLT to MLT to fly sparge (with a silicon hose) and then from the bottom on my boil kettle to a port towards the top to whirlpool.

I have the pump on the floor of my kitchen. I had it working well enough to sparge, but when I tried to go from the bottom ball valve towards the bottom of my kettle to the one up by the rim, the pump just didn't work. The wort in my tubing wouldn't move beyond the liquid level in the kettle.

Did I do something wrong here? Is the autovent installed properly?

Pump.jpg
 
Based on my understanding of the auto-vent and how people are using them (I haven't installed one on my pump yet), you need to switch the location of the output and where you currently have the auto-vent so that it let's out all the air out of the line bringing the liquid to the return tee where it will pump back up to the kettle. However if you were able to pump the wort back up to the bottom of the kettle then it may not be your auto-vent and it could be you're reaching the maximum head for the pump (which doesn't seem likely if you're just pumping from the floor up to the stove top).
 
I actually had the autovent where the outlet is when I began. . . I was having problems so I switched it to the configuration above.

I was having a hell of a time either way I tried it.
 
Hmmmm. . . I just purchased it new and it was the first time I used it.

When I remove the head I can see that the motor is spinning. I suppose the impeller could be jammed.

I will check that out tonight.
 
Are you connecting both ends of the tubing while dry then opening the ball valve? The dip tube can cause an air bubble. Connect one end of the hose to the kettle, and hold the other end high than the valve. Open the valve and lower the tubing until it's full. Close valve. Connect to pump. Then try.
 
i have had issue when pumping boiling or near boiling temps through my chugger. The pump cavitates (basically boils the water on the low pressure side of the impeller blades) and looses prime. I've found that to overcome this i have to throttle the output back a ways and SLOWLY bring it up.
 
I have my entire pump rotated 90 deg. from how yours is so that the fluid comes up from the bottom; then I have a "T" on the top (out side) with a manual bleeder valve out the side of the "T" and another valve going up towards whatever. This way I am sure that any air trapped in the pump head travels upward and out.

I'll open the purge valve, with the top valve still closed, until liquid comes out the side, to ensure the pump head is full; then I'll turn the pump on, close the purge valve and slowly open the top valve. It seems to work every time.

I'm not positive this will help, but it works for me and many others I have seen on here. Four batches this way and has worked great.

Good luck.

2011-01-25 13 43 06.jpg
 
can you get it pumping if you manually prime it?

+1 The schematic shows a dump valve. Use it to purge the air from the input line and the pump head then give it another try. IMO, the problem is that the pump is not properly primed. I don't use an auto-vent gizmo, so I cannot advise on where to position it. You should be able to manually prime the pump with or without the autovent installed.
 
The side-to-side orientation is just fine and probably a bit better in fact. The water flow into the inlet at the center of the pump, not "from the bottom". This is a common misquote. The liquid then exits at the root of the outlet connection. For example, in Flomaster's pic, the exit of the pump chamber is actually on the side of the pump not the top. If Flomaster's pump were rotated 90º clockwise, the the exit would be top dead center.

Either way it doesn't matter; both configurations work just fine and have virtually no difference in performance. The only way that is less than desirable is to have the pump side-to-side with the exit on the bottom. If you have it that way change it.

Your autovent is not configured in the typical way. It should still work their though... However, there is a small chance that because of the position of your autovent it is not receiving enough positive pressure to fully close and is allowing atmospheric pressure to access the high pressure side of your pump. This would kill it.

Why are you using the autovents? If you have a dump valve just use that to prime and remove the autovent??? When you set up your system, open the ball valve fully at your kettle, then open the dump valve. Once a good flow starts with the pump off, shut the dump valve. Start the pump. Prosper.
 
I had problems with my March pump losing prime while heating water - worked fine with cold water. I removed the dip tube from my kettle and have had no more problems.
 
So I've done some more investigation and it turns out the pump will work if I orient the entire pump so the head is on top. When it is oriented horizontally, the impeller just doesn't seem to spin.

Looks like the pump may is defective. I contacted the Chugger folks and am waiting to hear back.
 
I spoke to Mike at Chugger Pumps and he is sending me a new head to try out.

He also mentioned that it could be a problem with the quick disconnects that I'm using. Everything in my system is 1/2", but they have 3/8" couplings.

I'm hoping that isn't the problem because I am planning on whirlpooling through my CFC using this pump and if some smaller couplings are stopping the pump, then the 1/2" copper tubing that I used in the chiller will definitely be a problem. . .

I will post my findings when I have a chance to try out the new head.

As an aside, Mike was extremely nice and helpful. You really couldn't ask for a more responsive company.
 
Diptubes are the bane of mag drive pumps.

Though if the machining tolerances were off for the impeller housing, I could see how it might only work if clocked in a certain position.
 
It is admittedly a pain in the ass to make sure there is no air trapped in the dip tube. . .

I was having the same issues with or without it though.
 
FWIW, I have a dip tube installed and have no problems whatsoever with running or priming my mag drive pump. None!
 
FWIW, I have a dip tube installed and have no problems whatsoever with running or priming my mag drive pump. None!

That's awesome. Mind posting pictures of a setup that is working out? I feel a lot of people say, "Mine works fine" but we never see them. Maybe pictures of setups that are working could help out those having trouble.
I haven't really dove into mine yet to try it out.
 
my diptube was trapping air in my line. What I had to do was, lift and lower the ss tubing until all the air was forced back into the keggle leaving the tubing full of wort. then once I hooked it up to the pump I could clearly hear the little bit of air that was in there leave the vent and it started to auto siphon before I even turn the pump on.

-=Jason=-
 
I don't understand why so many people have problems with pumps. It really isn't complicated, dip tubes or otherwise.

1. Water level in vessel must be higher than the highest point in the tubing leading to the inlet of the pump (water doesn't flow up hill).

2. To prime the pump, water must be able to flow freely. Open all downstream valves and reduce back pressure as much as possible. This is why dump valves work well.

3. flood the pump.

4. start/stop pump rapidly a few times to purge air pockets from pump head.

5. pump to your hearts content.

I have used March pumps in every config. possible and they work just fine in any orientation.

They do not produce a positive displacement so they cannot move air. You need liquid in the pump head before the pump will work.

Here is one setup, the pump is in the box in the arrangement shown in the OP but doesn't even have a dump valve or autovent. To prime, I lower the box until liquid flows naturally, then I am done and primed.

DSC02239.jpg
 
That's awesome. Mind posting pictures of a setup that is working out? I feel a lot of people say, "Mine works fine" but we never see them. Maybe pictures of setups that are working could help out those having trouble.
I haven't really dove into mine yet to try it out.

This is the 1/2" ID DIP Tube/Siphon Tube
3848169893_f2463c77fc_z.jpg


This shows the pump w/dump valve, flow control valve and vacuum gauge mounted on a swiveling wood base:
4554827913_24d3fc4bee.jpg


I close the flow control valve and open the dump valve and start the pump. As soon as I get a forceful flow from the dump valve (about 2 seconds) I close the dump valve and open the flow control valve to start pumping. This method is quick and reliable. It literally never fails and it's extraordinarily easy. I find it puzzling that there are so many posts reporting difficulty with priming or losing prime with their mag drive pumps. It's really not difficult to use these pumps.

IMO, for optimum pump performance, use large ID hose or pipe, keep hoses or pipe as short as conveniently possible and use the fewest number of fittings possible.
 
If Flomaster's pump were rotated 90º clockwise, the the exit would be top dead center.

B_K, I find this wrong rotating the pump from vertical inlet / outlet 90 degress clockwise to the horizontal position as the exit at "top dead center", inside the pump is not at the top for the outlet port.
If you rotate the head from vertical inlet / outlet clockwise 66 degrees this will place the outlet discharge inside the pump at the top of the impeller chamber or straight up at the highest point to best vent air from inside the pump. Adding to this 66 degrees or 24 degrees discharge pointed upwards on my Chugger pump.
Installing the March HF impeller having longer impeller blades this reducing the impeller tip to pump body OD clearance from .374" to .135" can only help with catching pump prime. I had to spout off.
 
I was having a hard time the first time I used my pumps. I found that there were two things causing a problem.

First, I was using quick disconnects hooked up to barbs with hose fittings. Once the o-ring in the hose fittings got warm, they started introducing bubbles into my lines. What I thought was tight before I started brewing proved to be very loose once it got warm. To solve this, I just tightened all my hose fittings when everything was hot (wear gloves). I stopped getting bubbles in the lines after that. If you have clear lines, check them for small bubbles like you see from CO2 in beer or soda. If you have bubbles, you are going to get a stuck pump.

Second, my orientation of the pump head was wrong. Turning it so the outlet was pointing up like on the Brutus 10 solved my problem completely. No need for any bleeding value or vent. Just let it fill from the bottom with your outlet valve open. Once it's full and you see fluid in the outlet line, turn the pump on.

I think the biggest reason that having your outlet point up works is because your INLET is pointing DOWN. This means that all the bubbles have to go through the outlet, they cannot travel down into the inlet. If you have the inlet coming in horizontally from the side, it lets bubbles travel back up the inlet. If you are using a dip stick on the inlet side, bubbles in the inlet side will kill your siphon.

brutus5.jpg
 
IMO & IME, the pump head orientation doesn't matter if you have a dump valve installed and any air trapped in the dip tube can be very easily purged as well.
 
Bendiy, that's a great point about the orientation of the inlet being more important than the outlet. Whatever method you use, the most important thing is purging all the air from the inlet side. Diptubes, leaky fittings, and having your pump as a high spot that traps air in the impeller housing are all the usual suspects.
 
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