Volume loss to heat/cold break - FRUSTRATING!

In my last 3 batches, I've lost 1 gallon, 1 gallon and 0.5 gallons respectively to the hot/cold break trub I've left in the kettle upon racking to the primary. This is very frustrating, especially considering the fact that I am only brewing 3gallon batches .... so I'm losing 1/3 of my batch to trub!

I guess my question is, is this an unavoidable loss or should I just chuck it all into the primary fermenter? If you advocate the latter, then whats the point of getting a good hot break and cold break, if you're just going to throw those proteins into your carboy anyway?

I've tried the whirlpooling thing, stirring the heck out of the wort and then leaving it be for 30mins to form the "protein cone" .... but it never works out ... the proteins just seem too fluffy to want to settle out.

So what I'm doing is racking the clear wort until I start siphoning up the cloudy wort and then I stop. Unfortunately, when I stop -- I've left a gallon of wort in the kettle, which is a considerable proportion of my batch. It's killing me!!

So do you throw it all into the primary, or do you keep as much of the break material out?

I strain out hop ,aterial and rack everything else into the fermentor. It settles and packs down better and you lose less than whirlpooling.

I've repeatedly heard that if you include break proteins in your fermenter, you can get negative effects such as off-flavors, cloudiness in finished product, and poor shelf-life of bottled beer.

Are these anecdotal/hear-say, or do they have scientific merit to them?

Naked_Eskimo said:

I've repeatedly heard that if you include break proteins in your fermenter, you can get negative effects such as off-flavors, cloudiness in finished product, and poor shelf-life of bottled beer.

Are these anecdotal/hear-say, or do they have scientific merit to them?

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No science, but after 3 weeks in primary, 3 weeks bottled, a week or so in the fridge, most of my beer presents crystal clear. I have tested a few beers that are more than 6 months and don't notice any problems.

What if you have a sanitized dinner plate about the size of the bottom of the kettle, and set that in there before siphoning?

There is also the sanitized stainless steel scrubby/ chore boy pad that you can put over the bottom of the siphon/dip tube. I have not tried this but I have seen others that do this.

As for the hops I suggest using a large fine mesh nylon sack/bag when boiling them, Lifting out a bag is WAY easier than filtering all that crud. Just do not let it touch the bottom of the boil kettle.



Just out of curiosity do you use Irish moss?

Brewing Techniques has some very nice papers on Break Materials. In summary, Hot Break is BAAAAAAD and cold break is, mmm, okay.

I deally you want to leave as much of it behind as possible but by achieving the break in the boil you have broken them out of solution and coagulated them. Same goes for the cold break too. Once coagulated they will flocculate out given enough time.

Sounds like you need better trub management. I for one got tired of all the gimmick, socks, screens, etc that would clog in the kettle and require a damned heat suite toi retreive and clear so, I devised a pre-filter after the kettle using a grant and rice hulls. So far it has worked my system wonders.

I have dumped all trub into the carboy for every single batch I've made. I have developed no noticeable off flavors for all of my beer. I have had professional brewers compliment my beer, and never had anyone mention any off flavors. For all of my batches thus far, the beer sits in the carboy for a month, then is racked into a keg.

Hops aren't the problem, I use a hop bag for that....it's just the hot/cold break proteins.

hop bag helps. I usually lose about 2qt to trub, so I'm not concerned. Usually everything in the kettle goes into the fermenter, though I have made a couple double-batches on occasion where one fermentor gets clear wort, and the other gets the bottom of the bucket grunge. After fermentation, both beers come out identically.

Zamial said:

There is also the sanitized stainless steel scrubby/ chore boy pad that you can put over the bottom of the siphon/dip tube. I have not tried this but I have seen others that do this.

Just out of curiosity do you use Irish moss?

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I do have a SS scrubbie that I may try, bought it a while ago, just wasnt sure whether it was fine enough to keep out the small protein funk.

I use Whirlfloc.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Sounds like you need better trub management. I for one got tired of all the gimmick, socks, screens, etc that would clog in the kettle and require a damned heat suite toi retreive and clear so, I devised a pre-filter after the kettle using a grant and rice hulls. So far it has worked my system wonders.

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Are you chilling the beer before it hits the grant, or does the beer go from kettle > grant > cfc/plate/other > fermenter?

That sounds like a good idea. Nice and elegant and you could double it up as a hopback.

To keep on track, I use a CFC for now, so I get cold break aplenty in the fermenter, and only some hot break. I position the dip tube in the kettle to where it pulls some up, but definitely leaves a nice thick sludge mess behind. This subject, like most others in homebrewing has a million opinions.

prosper said:

hop bag helps. I usually lose about 2qt to trub, so I'm not concerned. Usually everything in the kettle goes into the fermenter, though I have made a couple double-batches on occasion where one fermentor gets clear wort, and the other gets the bottom of the bucket grunge. After fermentation, both beers come out identically.

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The moral of this story is: make a larger batch to compensate for the lost .5 - 1 gallon in the break. Honestly this would do the trick the best and easiest but not exactly cost effective...I would try the other suggestions 1st then as a last resort head this route...

What I do is use a 5 Gallon Paint Strainer bag. I put it in the last 15 minutes of my boil with my wort chiller to kill all the nasties, then, after my wort has been chilled, I put the bag in the fermenter (with the opening wrapped around the lip of the bucket) and either pour, or siphon from my boil kettle in to it. Combine this with the Irish Moss, and it gets most of the crap out, including the hop material that snuck out of my hop bag.

I brewed up BrewMuncher's Centennial Blonde a couple of times with this, and when the beer was done, chilled, and poured, it was crystal clear.

ian-atx said:

Are you chilling the beer before it hits the grant, or does the beer go from kettle > grant > cfc/plate/other > fermenter?

That sounds like a good idea. Nice and elegant and you could double it up as a hopback.

To keep on track, I use a CFC for now, so I get cold break aplenty in the fermenter, and only some hot break. I position the dip tube in the kettle to where it pulls some up, but definitely leaves a nice thick sludge mess behind. This subject, like most others in homebrewing has a million opinions.

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All of the above. I run my kettle directly into the grant, the grant connects directly to the chiller, thus acts as a pre-filter for hop debris and hot break. But, I also recirculate the bulk of the kettle until it reaches 160 or 140 and then I do a straight shot into the fermenter maintaining the desired pitch temp I need. So, through a recirc I am also trapping cold break too. All with a handful or two of rice hulls and yes, it does double as a hop back with the same principle function.