New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

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I'm only reporting unsubstantiated rumors, but I heard at LHBS that T-58 and Belle Saison are progeny of the same strain, reported to be the strain from Saison DuPonte.

Again, not evidence, but repeated rumors from a very smart guy who works at LHBS.
 
Not at all....

5.5 gal
1.040-1.043OG
85% effic (my efficiency is through the roof on low gravity beers, so keep % the same but adjust for your system. Also, I brew for 5.5 post boil.)
FG 1.003 (wasn't looking for this, but oh well)

4.5lb Belgian Pils
2.75 Vienna
12 oz Torrified wheat
Mash @ 150
60 min boil

.25 oz zythos @ 60"
.5 oz zythos @ 10"
2 oz zythos at 2"

I'd ferment warmer but still pitch cool (63-65) and probably let it free rise to 72 and either hold there or let it free rise completely with no temp control -> all depends on how much yeast derived character you want. The zythos, believe it or not plays. That hop to me, comes off with a lemon line sprite like character and then drops off into an herbal note. Another poster on here, bierhaus15 recommended I try zythos in a hoppy saison and the way this beer is tasting right now, I think he was right.

Nice and thanks. :D

Imma going to give this a try. I wonder how well it would work if I cooled to 62, pitched, gave it 48 hours at 60 ambient and then moved into my office where it's 72-75 most of the time?

Also, I've never used Zythos hops, they do sound good tho.

Rick :mug:
 
^^^ if it were my batch I'd do one of the following based on your ferment temp options:

1. More yeast derived flavors - I'd pitch at 62-63 and put it in your 60 ambient spot for 24 hours then move to your office where it's 72 and let it rip

2. Less funk - pitch at 62 and keep it in your 60 ambient spot, but even then the thermal activity of fermentation will bump the temp north of 60f. Most say 5-8 degrees warmer, so you'd likely at some point in the ferment hit 70-75 anyway.

Either way I bet you'd get great results. I'd pick option 1 as my beer is pretty clean. Also, although the Zythos are great in this recipe, if you'd prefer to keep it traditional, then you could certainly go with the typical Goldings (EKG or styrian) or Saaz. I'm trying to kill off a lb. of Zythos, so for me it was worth the try.
 
Duckman, I think I'll give option #1 a try first. I really like the saisons that have that yeasty orange taste, I think you have to get into the 80's to get that.

I'm still thinking about hops the French hop sounds nice along with some styrians. We'll see.

Rick:mug:
 
If I may interject.....I have been a long time user of Danstar I have used all of their yeasts(execpt the lager) I have used them with and with out making starters and never used more than 1 pack in any brew even my moneter 14% Imperial Milk Stout. I see no reason to buy 2 packs of this yeast I just purchased 3 packs of the saison yeast for evaluation. I have done the same for all of the danstar yeasts. I will make 3 5 gallon beers(same grain bill or extract) I will pitch dry yeast in one the rehydrated yeast in the next and last I will make a starter. I keep notes on fermentation progression. With the others time seems to be the only factor the starters worked to fg much faster. There has been only a minor diffrence in flavors and aromas between all 3 methods. I beleive the diffrences would not be noticible to the average person. I will proceed with my evaluations asap and report back when done.

All 3 batches are done bottled and carbonated.
I used only one package each for 2 batches and the third got a good healthy starter. The 2 batches started and finished at the same time about 5 days I let it go to 10 days then placed in a secondary. The starter batch had airlock activity in about an hour and the batch was done in 2 days. The starter batch finished at 1.002 the other batches finished at 1.004 all batches had an og of 1.054. The flavor from the starter batch is slightly higher in spicey and estery flavors, to me but 3 of my friends could not tell the diffrence in any of them. I like this yeast and will be using it as a replacement for liquid yeast for my belgian brews.
 
IMO I think 70* is just fine some folks I have read let the beer heat up and get more activity at around 80*
 
I have used t-58 and it hasn't attenuated that high for me (which is fine--I mashed accordingly). My friend used Belle in an extract Belgian IPA (with some simple sugar) and it dropped down to 1.002. I don't think T-58 would do that, but I have very limited experience.
 
So in the end, was 1 pack of the yeast fine?
I used this yeast to brew a Belgian Pale Ale yesterday, and I got to reading today that 2 packets are needed (per the packet). OG=1.052
 
I usually go with 3724 in the low 90s for my saisons and decided to give the belle a try this time. I pitched 1 packet on a 1.070 (oops....was aiming for 062) 5 gallon wort yesterday around 5pm at 80*. Going nuts this morning (6am) at 83* and smells wonderful. Krausen was already reaching the airlock so I switched to blowoff and left for work. I plan to keep it around 80* for a week and then I'll check og and post the results.
 
I brewed a Saison using it last week. I put the fermenter in a cooler with an aquarium heater. Set it to 68. the next morning upped it to 72, that evening upped it to 74. Next morning to 76 and that evening to 80. Been sitting at 80 since then. In a couple of weeks I should know what it will taste like.

Really curious how it will taste. Very simple recipe to let the yeast show through. It would be great to have a dry option for saisons.
 
Anybody who has used this yeast care to talk about what kind of flavors out of this yeast? I want to use it but based on what others have posted about attenuation and temps, it looks like it is a dried version of 3711.
 
Anybody who has used this yeast care to talk about what kind of flavors out of this yeast? I want to use it but based on what others have posted about attenuation and temps, it looks like it is a dried version of 3711.

I am also wondering.
 
I think the description 3711 on the wyeast site describes what I detect from the belle. Spicy, pepper and citrus.

The citrus is lemony, orangey. The pepper is white rather than black I would say, sounds awful to have pepper in a beer, but actually its quite subtle and nice. theres some other spices but less obvious what they are and they are not so strong.

I think the pepper accumulates on the tongue and makes the taste change from start to finish of a single glass. It gets spicier - ie hotter.

My saison finished at 1005 which is about 89% attenuation. It is dry, but not as dry (or tart) as I was expecting. There is some mouthfeel left in the beer which I also wasnt expecting ( I mashed at 64 degrees C which is quite low and I didnt use any dextrin malt). Again, I seem to be parroting the wyeast descriptors as I have just re-read them and see they also describe " unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel". I have not used the 3711 so cannot say if they are the same, but the descriptors are strikingly similar to what I taste.

It took 5 days to get to final gravity on a rising temp from 17 to 25 degrees C over 5 days.

it is very drinkable after only a few days in the keg. I am extremely happy with this yeast and will order some more.

I haven't done a saison before and haven't drunk many either so I'm no expert on this style.
 
For those interested in trying this yeast, I just ordered some from the hops shack in Ohio http://www.hopsshack.com, and it's a little cheaper than northern brewer. I know it's not a lot, but I figured it's worth mention.

They also ship faster to me than NB, but that may be because I live in PA.
 
I ended up pitching a pack of this into a batch that I started with 3724 that stalled at 1.050 (OG was 1.098). Normally 3711 is my go-to when 3724 occasionally acts stupid and stalls but I had this on hand so decided to give it a try. It will be interesting to see how it compares to 3711.
 
Chamuco said:
I usually go with 3724 in the low 90s for my saisons and decided to give the belle a try this time. I pitched 1 packet on a 1.070 (oops....was aiming for 062) 5 gallon wort yesterday around 5pm at 80*. Going nuts this morning (6am) at 83* and smells wonderful. Krausen was already reaching the airlock so I switched to blowoff and left for work. I plan to keep it around 80* for a week and then I'll check og and post the results.

Ok, sold! Down to 1.003 and tastes amazing. I kept it between 80 and 85*. Spicy-citricy, strong and dry. I'm kegging this one tonight!



image-2895598339.jpg
 
So in the end 1 packet did the job.
OG 1052
FG 1012
(Hit the recipe)
Fermented @ 66deg for 2 weeks.
Belgian Pale Ale
Tastes great!

image-2930324195.jpg
 
Super spicy! Pepper, coriander, and lemon. In retrospect I would have vamped up the bitterness to balance out the yeast profile. Sticking it on oak for a week to see if I can get it to even out. Pitched at 65F and elevated to 76-78F for a 10 days.
 
DeTech said:
Me too... Does anyone have any tasting notes for the higher side of ferm temps? Anybody hit 90s?

I got into the mid 80's and will take it higher (95*) next time. At 8.78% the alcohol is warm, not harsh at all. I taste more citrus than pepper and a tart dry finish. I tend to get more fruit out of my Saisons when under pitched and fermented at high temperatures. This yeast is definitely edgy and Impressive that one, unhydrated packet could finish a 1.070 beer so quickly...12 days from brew to fully carb'd and tasty. Now at 16 days even better!



image-1276053272.jpg
 
Hello everybody!
I already have this yeast, received it as a present, and I wanted to use it. The first thought was to do a witbier. I was aiming to something like Blanche de Namur, very light, coriander and citrusy notes.

Many brews under the belt but nothing like saison or witbier so I found this thread looking for recipes and for suggestions on this yeast usage.

Some ideas:
- should I try a classic witbier with coriander and orange dried zest and keep the fermenting temps a bit lower than what suggested? Can you suggest me some thread about recipes? I suppose I should adapt them to this yeast though.
- should I radically switch to a saison and follow this recipe? I'd rather not... And I can't have Zythos, I have to find something else (Cascade for the citrus? some other hop to be more classic?);

What do you suggest?
Thanks in advance and cheers from Italy! :)
Piteko
 
hello piteko,

based on other's experience i don't think coriander, or any other spice, is needed - sounds like this yeast contributes lots of those on its own.

there is no one single "saison" recipe - saison is quite a diverse style of beer. you can use many different kinds of hops, Zythos is in no way a requirement to make a saison. check out this sub-forum for many recipe ideas: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/. pick out something you like there and use the dry yeast instead of whatever is listed in the original recipe. i would recommend sticking with a relatively simple recipe so the yeast can be featured. feel free to ask questions if you don't understand something in a recipe.
 
piteko - check out my home brew clubs website (gonzobrewers.com) under the "forum" section and "Upcoming meetings (what will be the goings on) by Sam-Who-Is" I have a bunch of info and recipes on saisons. I have been doing a lot of witbier/saison hybrids lately. I think they are under the "Recipe Exchange" section. My personal favorite is the "Catalyst saison" it was originally done by that major vices brewer, and has been my favorite so far.
 
My personal favorite is the "Catalyst saison" it was originally done by that major vices brewer, and has been my favorite so far.

Perfect! Thanks!
I saw the Catalyst recipe. It's very interesting since I was convinced that styrian goldings could be a good hop for a saison/witbier but this is the first recipe I saw that includes it! :)

Anyway, I'm sure I cannot find the French Strisselspalts hops, the Kaffir Lime leaves and the Dried Lime Peel, so I think I will need to adjust your recipe or to find something similar.
The main thing I still have to understand is if I have/want to use spices and keep the fermentation temp down or if it's better not to use the spices and pump the yeast with a high fermentation temp. I have a little fermentation chamber that can make cold or hot, so temperature control is not a impossible for me.
I'm tempted not to use spices and let the yeast shine, but I know that I have only few packs of this yeast and I probably won't be able to have them again, so maybe an approach could be not to let the yeast shine, so I can change it and have similar results with a different saison yeast strain. Another approach could be to make the yeast shine and then see how the recipe changes using a different saison yeast strain and learn something more...
Well, many things to understand. Monday is the LHBS order day, so I will have to choose by then.

Thanks again!
Piteko
 
check out this sub-forum for many recipe ideas: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/.

Thanks!
Many years that I come around here and never saw the recipes sub-forum! Great!!


feel free to ask questions if you don't understand something in a recipe.

Some of my main doubts are listed above and, as you can see, not strictly related to the style. Anyway, I'll take a look and ask! I think I will now go to the cellar and try to clear my mind with a san bernardus wit. Yesterday I had an Hoegaarden and a Blanche de Namur comparison with SWIMBO (who the wit is for... as I publicize it ;) ). The Blanche de Namur has a citrusy aroma that rocks! :D

Thanks again!
Cheers from Italy! :mug:
Piteko
 
Anyway, I'm sure I cannot find the French Strisselspalts hops
you can replace the hops with a different kinds. don't let the hops be an obstacle to following a recipe. you can always substitute, it's not like the recipe will be terrible with a different hop.

I know that I have only few packs of this yeast and I probably won't be able to have them again

you might want to look into yeast washing. it is possible to reuse yeast.
 
hey guys, adding my experience here. I made a saison with super high gravity (1.088-1.090, calling it "Harvesters Paycheck") for graduation in a few months. I only pitched one package as per instructions and added yeast nutrient to help. After 3 days in the fermenter at ~72-75*F it fermented all they way down to 1.010!! I couldn't believe it! In a week i'll transfer to the secondary and let it sit till 3 weeks before graduation, cold crash for a week, then bottle and carbonate.

I'm keeping the slurry for another saison project, and then a biere de garde. I'm super impressed with the spiciness i have already detected and the completeness of the fermentation.
 
you might want to look into yeast washing. it is possible to reuse yeast.

I know the procedure and I tend to follow the directions heard on brewstrong: pitching the yeast as fresh as possible, so I bottle my beer directly from my primary and repitch the yeast a week after in another brew. This is ok for me because I make a lot of similar beers (I usually stay around england). I don't think I will make some saison brews one after the other, unless I can reuse the yeast to make something different like I do with my english yeast: 1st batch mild, 2nd batch best bitter, 3rd batch IPA.

I could make a yeast bank but, for many reasons, I'd rather change and buy my distributor' saison fresh yeast when I need it (3724 Belgian Saison or 3711 French Saison).

Cheers from Italy! :mug:
Piteko
 
The main thing I still have to understand is if I have/want to use spices and keep the fermentation temp down or if it's better not to use the spices and pump the yeast with a high fermentation temp.

I finally decided for this one:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/blue-balls-belgian-wit-blue-moon-clone-24978/

easy grist, very practical since I already have the pale malt and I always use ek golding. I will use spices and keep the yeast in a "normal" temp range.
I can't find the rice hulls, I need an alternative. I can find bran, I don't think it has the same efficiency, but better than nothing? Any other idea?

Cheers from Italy! :mug:
Piteko
 
Rice hulls are there only to help your sparge not get stuck since wheat has no husk to help form a filter bed. They don't contribute sugars. If you BIAB, you should be fine without.
 
Rice hulls are there only to help your sparge not get stuck since wheat has no husk to help form a filter bed. They don't contribute sugars. If you BIAB, you should be fine without.

I know, but I'm not a BIAB brewer... Standard zapap here...
I usually make a slow filtering to help efficiency so speed is not my concern. I would like to avoid any stuck, though :)

Cheers from Italy! :mug:
Piteko
 
I am mostly posting this in order to follow this thread. I bought a couple packets of this on a whim from my LHBS and brewed on Friday evening. Fermentation was already going strong Saturday morning. I have noticed my ferment temp is relatively low, I was at 72 last evening. I don't intend to push the temp any higher than it goes naturally. I can post my results in a few weeks.
 
Thinking of brewing Mosher's "Saisoon Buffoon" with this yeast. Sounds like it is faster and less tempermental than Wyeast3724 or WLP565. Not even sure if I'd need that aquarium heater I was considering...
 
I've got 3 batches out of this yeast at this point. I'm a fan, but it definitely finishes on the dry spicy side. Pick a sweet or floral note to bounce that off of and you can not fail.
 
Thinking of brewing up a batch with this yeast as the new LHBS near me has some. Any other testimonials from recent users?
 
Tupperwolf said:
Thinking of brewing up a batch with this yeast as the new LHBS near me has some. Any other testimonials from recent users?

I liked my experience, flocculation was really low though, but It does hold pretty tight at the bottom of bottle. I also got really quick carbonation, so don't over add carbing sugar. It is an interesting flavor profile, that you would need to smell one one of my bottles to understand, but in true saison fashion it is funky!

Edit: if you use this in a high gravity/ imperial saison, add something to thin it out at about 75% completion. My 1.090OG to 1.012FG saison tastes great, but feels as think a syrup. Not a complaint, but not a refreshing summer nights beverage I was going for.
 
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