Hot and Cold?

If you were installing a water faucet in your garage brewspace, would you plumb for both hot and cold water?

My plumber suggested both. and then wye'ing the toghether ahead of the faucet. I am not exactly certain how he intends to do this (valving in line or just a straight shot with a risk of backflow).

I have looked for that end of line faucet valve with the hot and cold sides but haven't found it.

My hot water is in the 150*F to 170*F range and my cold is usually between 55*F and 65* so at 1:1 I'd still be around 100*F and my filter is not rated for that so, I'd need to have the choice.

Would having a hot water source at the brewery be worth it?

I am thinking it might be to reduce heating times and aid in cleaning but, I thought I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks.

Why can't you just hook it like a normal faucet? Or have a hot faucet and a cold faucet? (150-170 F is very hot, BTW). Running hot now would give a little future proof if the incremental cost isn't an issue.

It's a no brainer, definitely run both. I didn't because at the time, I was just running cold water out there for a hose bib for washing the cars. Now that I'm brewing, I really need to get that hot water run also.

How about a slop sink faucet?


I was planning on just using a ball valve on both lines just before hitting a TEE with the garden hose male after that.

MMW said:

Why can't you just hook it like a normal faucet? Or have a hot faucet and a cold faucet? (150-170 F is very hot, BTW). Running hot now would give a little future proof if the incremental cost isn't an issue.

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Not sure I follow the initial question. This will be connected to a typical outdoor hose faucet only, in the garage and not to a utility sink. Sure, there is a risk for a leak which is why it will be installed in the equipment closet with planty of access through/under a door.

150-170 too hot for ya'. Meh. The heater is efficient.

I agree with the point of "future proofed" but, I guess I am debating whether or not it's even necessary or just a potential maintenance issue. Of course, I know that I am the only one who can answer that question for myself....

Just curious what everyone else would do.

I'm a little foggy on the objective here. Why plumb for both and then terminate with them "wye'd" together? Is this an attached garage or what? You may want to install a separate water heater in the garage if that's feasible. With an attached garage, it would be a slam dunk to run both lines and use some kind of a mixing faucet or individual hose bibs. Wow...150 F - 170 F is really hot! I have my water heater set fairly high, but it's nowhere near that temp.

Bobby_M said:

It's a no brainer, definitely run both. I didn't because at the time, I was just running cold water out there for a hose bib for washing the cars. Now that I'm brewing, I really need to get that hot water run also.

How about a slop sink faucet?

I was planning on just using a ball valve on both lines just before hitting a TEE with the garden hose male after that.

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Yeah. That'd be cool. I had even considered one of those wall mounted utility (mop sink) faucets but, I think he just plans to use what's on the truck tho'. He's throwing this in as part of another install. Which is why I am even considering not running the hot side at all but, like you, I do see some merit in having it.

Is it just me or does that handicap symbol just look like someone sitting in a Yoga ball?

Catt22 said:

I'm a little foggy on the objective here. Why plumb for both and then terminate with them "wye'd" together?

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I think his thoughts here are that the water would be neither hot nor cold but, warm. Plus, this way it would minimize the connections and hardware involved. But, I'd worry more about cold water backflow into the hot line and my tank getting tempered thus running more often to combat.

Catt22:1409611 said:

Is this an attached garage or what?

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Yes. Attached. 2 car with the heater closet in the garage and the access door facing forward. Yes. It is a slam dunk, so to speak, as far as access. But I was questioning need more than anything.

Catt22:1409611 said:

Wow...150 F - 170 F is really hot! I have my water heater set fairly high, but it's nowhere near that temp.

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Wow....I don't get why this is so surprising. I have tried running our 3 baths at 120*F and we just used more water faster. And drained the tank more often. It's a good, efficient tank and only runs once or twice a day to maintain the heat unless we drain it for whatever reason. I find that by having the set-point higher we use less water in the blend and my energy bills are lower. Plus, at the higher temp the hot water tempers the pipes quicker and we get hot water at the back of the house much quicker. And, we can get a tub filled and take a shower without running out of hot water. At 120*F, not a chance!

Actually, I don't know what my hot water temp is set at, but it's pretty hot. I keep it hot for precisely the same reasons that you do. It's well documented that we are using more energy doing this, but I'm willing to pay the difference. I'm guessing that I'm around 140 F. I absolutely hate running out of hot water no matter what I'm doing at the time.

Mixing the hot/cold at the point of use seems odd to me. The solution is to simply terminate each line with it's own valve, but do run both lines out to the garage. You can always easily reconfigure everything later on if desired.

Would having a hot water source at the brewery be worth it?

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Yes, I find hot water in the brewery extremely useful, as is a deep utility sink. Hot water makes cleanup easier. Also, with a new heater and very soft water, I can speed up my brewing process by using hot water. I've got my heater set to deliver 106F showers, but I've got a 50 gallon heater and live alone. Since the deep sink is right next to the heater, the water there is a bit hotter.

Anyone got a link for that hot/cold outdoor mixing faucet?

My search mojo is limp today.

You don't really need a mixing faucet. Run both lines, each with their own ball or gate vavle, then Tee it back to a single line for the outside hose bib. You can keep the hot valve shut for 95% of the time and only open it when you want hot water. If you're worried that you might leave them open, you can put inline check valves in before the valves.

Bobby_M said:

You don't really need a mixing faucet. Run both lines, each with their own ball or gate vavle, then Tee it back to a single line for the outside hose bib. You can keep the hot valve shut for 95% of the time and only open it when you want hot water.

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Yeah. I know. that is pretty much what I have planned. Still not certain what the plumber has in mind tho'.

It's recommended to hot have your hot water that hot because it's dangerous for children. If they accidentally get hit with straight hot water, that's hot enough to do serious damage. If you don't have kids and aren't going to have kids at your house, then it's probably not an issue for you.

ChshreCat said:

It's recommended to hot have your hot water that hot because it's dangerous for children. If they accidentally get hit with straight hot water, that's hot enough to do serious damage. If you don't have kids and aren't going to have kids at your house, then it's probably not an issue for you.

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This is what I was going to recommend. Just watched my niece get burnt washing her hands because my brother is too lazy to turn the water temp down. Luckily she was old enough to react and pull her hands out when it was too hot but it still hurt her and her hands were bright red. And easily avoidable situation.

Moen also has this pricy but slick hot/cold bib:

ChshreCat said:

It's recommended to hot have your hot water that hot because it's dangerous for children. If they accidentally get hit with straight hot water, that's hot enough to do serious damage. If you don't have kids and aren't going to have kids at your house, then it's probably not an issue for you.

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Yes. That I do realize. And I do have a 3 year old. But, we have taught him to not use the hot water without asking for help. Just like we have taught him not to pull on plugs, play with the stove, touch bugs, etc...

I dunno. It's a good argument to lower the temp and avert the potential danger but, it's also a good lessen to "learn first hand" what hot means. this is not to say that I want to see my child scalded......

Either way, he knows that the "blue" faucet is okay to turn but the "red" one means to find Mom or Dad. And he does come and get us everytime.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Yes. That I do realize. And I do have a 3 year old. But, we have taught him to not use the hot water without asking for help. Just like we have taught him not to pull on plugs, play with the stove, touch bugs, etc...

I dunno. It's a good argument to lower the temp and avert the potential danger but, it's also a good lessen to "learn first hand" what hot means. this is not to say that I want to see my child scalded......

Either way, he knows that the "blue" faucet is okay to turn but the "red" one means to find Mom or Dad. And he does come and get us everytime.

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He may know not to mess with the water, but how do you know he's not going to slip and hit the handle by accident. I'd highly recommend turning that down so you're not sorry later. Taking your kid to the ER because they "learned first hand what hot means" wouldn't be fun.

Bobby_M said:

Moen also has this pricy but slick hot/cold bib:

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That is the one I was looking for.

This is the one I have at my house for our outdoor shower

Prier Products

Cheers,

Nathan

I am all for letting kids get hurt and learning first hand, but you can teach a kid what "hot" means without scalding them. just make the water hot enough to make them think "I don't wanna touch that", it will be much lower temperature than scoulding.

I was going to suggest that Moen as well but was too lazy to look. I saw it at LOWES a few weeks ago.

Ya. 150 is hot. Disturbing that you use 150 as the LOW point for your hot water tank.

With a 3 yo who will be more and more independent, it's not worth it running that hot of water. You'd be better served buying a larger tank. It's making me angry thinking about it, so we'll move on.


As for your original question, I'd have the hot/cold lines run to the garage, then hard cap the hot water, or make it inconvenient to turn it on. You don't want hot water coming out on you by accident. If you decide to put a proper slop sink in, you'll have it ready, but if you don't, it's minimal cost at this point.

I would love to have hot/cold water in my garage, or even right outside of it. Would make brewing a bit easier.

Well, I am convinced. Hot and Cold lines to the garage it is.

I guess I just don't see the "dilemma" with keeping my water as hot as I do and having children in the house. I mean, one would not restrict their stovetop to the "lowest" setting to avert the potential for an un-supervised burn. No, rather "if" the feeling of a risk was there one would opt to devidse a manner of lockout. As I would with this.

Meh. I concede that there is a risk but, there are much greater risks around the typical household than this. I do however, hope that it won't come to pass that either of my children suffer from being scalded.

How much power do you have in the garage?

Maybe you could just run a cold water line and the a small point of use electric under the counter water heater and then split the cold line before it and just run the hot from the output of the heater to a standard two handle faucet.

Simphoto02 said:

How much power do you have in the garage?

Maybe you could just run a cold water line and the a small point of use electric under the counter water heater and then split the cold line before it and just run the hot from the output of the heater to a standard two handle faucet.

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No point really. The house tank heater would be within 10 foot from my brewspace. To add a point of use, would be an un-necessary expense and the plumbing for this is a minimal charge (materials only).