Keg to ekeggle conversion pics

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kevink

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SWMBO and I are in the process of building an ekeggle, so I thought I'd post some pics of the process. I have read through tons of threads in this forum over the past few months while developing the plan. The idea is to begin all grain brewing by batch sparging in a cooler and boiling in the ekeggle. I can see this turning into a RIMS or HERMS system in the future, but for now it will be kept simple while we learn how to brew all grain.

Here are some pics taken while cutting the top off the keg. It went pretty well until the very end when the cutter started breaking through in places. At that point, the cutter was getting snagged where it transitioned from an area that had broken through to an area that had not broken through. I broke out the reciprocating saw to get through those areas and off came the top.

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Looking good man. Where'd you get that cutter? It's pretty slick. Good luck with the rest of the build. :mug:
 
Pretty cool! I used a reciprocating saw on my last keggle. It was a lot easier than using a grinder. Can't wait to see the rest of your build.
 
Thank you! I made the cutting tool just for this purpose. It's all steel except for the aluminum bushing which you can barely make out in the keg hole (or whatever it's called). The bushing is retained by the original locking ring and the steel part is bolted to the bushing. The cutting bit itself is a high speed steel or carbide lathe bit... can't remember which.
 
Adamcanfly,

If I ever do this again, I may just mount an air powered cut off tool with an abrasive disc to the cutter instead. As the disc wears, the whole assembly can be lowered by turning the nuts that are sandwiching the cutter. It was a LOT of work for SWMBO to hold the keg still and a LOT of work to turn that cutter. I have a newfound respect for 304 stainless steel now... lol. I was sweating like crazy by the end. The screeching noise was unbearable. The cutting oil I used was actually smoking from the heat. It was not as elegant of an operation as the pics might suggest, but I did end up with a perfectly round hole in the keg!
 
Here's how I mounted the 5500w Camco element. I knew a few things going into this:

- I wanted to use a silicone o-ring and the 1" NPS lock nut that most people use because I like the groove in the lock nut that retains the o-ring. O-rings that are not retained in some kind of groove make me nervous because they can squeeze out.

- I wanted zero chance of water getting anywhere near the element connections. It must be 100% waterproof.

- The element does not have to be extremely easy to remove, but easy enough in case of failure (I plan on cleaning in place with PBW between brews).

- Everything must be TIG welded.

I began by removing the hex on a portion of the lock nut and beveling the edge. I then made a big hole in a 3" tri clamp end cap, re-contoured the inside surface a little bit, and beveled that edge, too.
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This is how they will fit together:
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Mid weld:
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Back purge:
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Fresh after fusing the end cap to the lock nut. The tri clamp ferrule was put in place and locked down to minimize warping of the end cap. A piece of aluminum welding rod was bent into a circle and put where the silicone gasket would normally go to take up the slack. You can see it peeking out at 12 o'clock. The silicone would have fried and probably wouldn't have prevented warpage because it's not rigid:
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Here's what it looks like with the element in there. You can see two ferrules in this pic. They will eventually be welded together. Another end cap will go on this end with a liquid tight strain relief for the element power cable.
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I'm jealous of your TIG welding! One day I will have the time and money to buy one and learn...
 
Thanks for the compliments!
Nice brew system, Poolshark. I love the inverted keg. What pid are you using? I have the same spa panel, but there is no way that I could mount my Auber in it as it's 4" deep. Do you have any pics of the inside?
 
Why didn't you just make the element removable with a triclamp?

I thought long and hard about making it removable with a tri clamp, but in the end I just did not think that it would be necessary. I hope to never even need to remove the element. Cleaning in place should take care of it. In the event that I do need to scrub the element, I'll just reach in and do it. If I really need to take it out, it takes about 10 seconds to remove it with a socket or an adjustable wrench.

If I do decide that a tri clamp removable element is necessary in the future, all I have to do is buy one more TC end cap. I'll either put a 1" threaded hole in or weld another 1" NPS lock nut to it. That will get clamped to the end cap that's currently welded to the keg. Then, I'll cut the flange off of one of the existing ferrules and weld it to the new end cap to seal the element connections.
 
Nice Work, Kevin! Is that a Bridgeport or Index in the back of the first pic? I keep running through my head about counterbalancing and motorizing your circle cutter, maybe a gearmotor to keep cutter speed right... maybe a jig to hold it in a decent size lathe and put the cutter on the chuck... I just want to see one long shaving when making that hole... worth the effort for one or two? no... cool? yes!

I like your back-gassing setup, you can see the back.. I use a tuna can with a 6" carriage bolt through it, on the front I have a washer with a hole in it for a small metal tube with the argon tube attached to it, the washer I hold in place with a spring and a wingnut... bending the tuna can allows it to get pretty close fit to the keg wall.. I want a clear one that does not melt...

I have thought about triclover also, but wanted to do a larger triclover and a countersunk element to really get the base of the element into the wort... and Triclover lets you block it off for other uses such as gas, huge mash drain if you use it as a MLT, etc.. yours is very sano, I like it a lot!

-mike
 
I've got a Dynasty 300DX, but i'm a totaly noob to TIG. My first attempt welding to my keg didn't turn out super pretty. How do you prep the keg and locknut? Also, could you outline your welding settings (amps, filler, etc.). It would be VERY much appreciated!!!
 
50-60A should be enough to do a sankey keg... 30 for a corney.. you can use more, but you want to be in the last 1/3 or the foot pedal, last 1/4-1/5 if you can.. gives much more precision.. the warmer the work, the less current required...

filler rod should not be so small you use it all up(0.050"), nor bigger than your puddle(0.125)... 1/16th I think is what i use... maybe 3/32".

I am pretty sure that anyone that TIG's here will agree for advice for a TIG noob.

1 - take a welding class at the local community college
2 - practice, practice, practice, TIG is like good penmanship
3 - take the 10 minutes to sturdy the work piece and a way to steady your arm to get comfortable relaxed movement from your torch

-mike
 
Thanks, Mike! That is a Bridgeport back there. I wanted so bad to stand the keg up on its table and cut the top off with a giant fly cutter, but the keg is too tall! I knew I should have bought that riser for the mill...

If you seriously want to make a motorized cutter for kegs, there is one snag you might hit- the top of the keg is flexy. The rigidity to hold the cutter firmly against the keg just isn't there. I bet it would chatter like a bit**. I felt the flexing and chattering when I cut mine. If you could somehow sturdy up the cutter by using the rolled lip at the top of the keg you would probably be in business. Build a roller bearing into the design and have it ride on the underside of that lip. Make the cutter depth adjustable so you can adjust the pressure at the cutter. You will still probably have an issue with the cutter grabbing and getting stuck when it breaks through, though. How about a similar device, but instead of using a lathe bit, use a vertically mounted electric motor spinning an 1/8" end mill? There wouldn't be a breakthrough problem with that. You would have to slow the motor down with a VFD or gears. Rigidity would still be very important in this setup, but my gut tells me that it would not have to be quite as rigid as the other design.

My back purge setup is nothing fancy. That clear shroud is a cheap feta cheese container from the grocery store... lol... trimmed to fit the contour of the keg. It held up just fine to the heat, probably because I let the keg cool after welding each flat of the hex. When I was all done, the tape was still stuck to the keg and the container was not melted at all. I was pretty surprised! I had an extra argon regulator laying around that I use for back purging. I T'd off the argon cylinder so I could use two regulators at once. The black hose is what came with the regulator. It goes through an X cut into the cheese container with some clear packing tape to seal it up. Like I said, nothing fancy!

Triclover lets you block it off for other uses

I actually never even thought that I'm be able to block my element hole until I read that. All I'll have to do is clamp an end cap to the end cap that's welded to my keg. Cool!
 
Thanks for the compliments!
Nice brew system, Poolshark. I love the inverted keg. What pid are you using? I have the same spa panel, but there is no way that I could mount my Auber in it as it's 4" deep. Do you have any pics of the inside?

I have the Auber pid. It fits with about 3/8" clearance behind it. I don't have pics of the inside yet but once my 3 wire RTD connector shows up I will take it apart and take pics.
 
Really? What model is it? The buttons look slightly different than mine. Looking forward to the pics!
 
OK, that explains it. The 2352 is an inch deeper than the 2362 for some reason...

Thanks!
 
I've got a Dynasty 300DX, but i'm a totaly noob to TIG. My first attempt welding to my keg didn't turn out super pretty. How do you prep the keg and locknut? Also, could you outline your welding settings (amps, filler, etc.). It would be VERY much appreciated!!!

OK, I also have a Dynasty, so you will be able to replicate my settings exactly (not saying they're perfect, but they should be a good starting point). Also, everything Mike said is spot on. The only thing that I can add is to learn how to breathe while welding. I used to hold my breath because it would make my arms and hands steadier, but near the end of a weld I would move faster and shake because I was basically running out of air. lol. If you learn how to relax and breathe slowly you will be much better off!

For welding the nut to the keg:
Main amps: 62
Pulses per second: 62
Peak time: 80%
Background amps: 56
2% lanthanated 3/32" tungsten
1/16" 308L rod
~15 CFH argon

Everything to be welded, including the welding rod, gets hit with scotch brite to remove oxidation and clean the surface. Then I wipe everything down with acetone (the acetone may not be necessary, but I like to make sure it's totally clean). Use new scotch brite that has never been used on carbon steel as it may contaminate the SS and cause rust later. Making sure that all of the gaps are tight will make welding easier and result a better looking weld. You should also back purge when welding thin stuff such as kegs to prevent ugly oxidation on the back side of the weld.

Are you following Miller's recommendations for sharpening the tungsten?
 
More pics. The sight glass is mostly done. All that's left is to trim the tops of the the polycarbonate and stainless tubes after I decide how long to make them. The polycarbonate tube is 1/8" x 3/8" and fits into a compression fitting. The nut of the compression fitting has been turned down so the stainless tube can slip over it. Right now there's a Delrin ferrule in there, but I also have two 3/8" x 1/2" high temp. silicone o-rings to try out. The ball valve has also been installed.

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seriously? all that amazing custom work and you aren't using camlocks? you're fired. ;)

I have no idea where that barbed fitting came from! Someone obviously slipped it in there before I took the pic.

So the hop stopper is done. We're hop heads, so I thought a big hop stopper would make life easier when it comes to pumping and chilling. After much research (and finding out what was available at the time from McMaster), we decided on this screen:

Mesh Size 28 x 28
General Opening Size Medium
Square/Rectangle Size .026"
Wire Diameter .010"
Percentage of Open Area 51.8

The pickup tube is 1/2" OD stainless with some 1/8" x 3/8" slots in the end. I really hope this thing works because I don't want to have to take it apart to modify it.

After it proves itself (hopefully!), it will definitely get tri clamped to ease removal for cleaning. I imagine that it won't be easy to clean while in the keg. I'd also like to make some other type of clamp to replace the hose clamp because the screws on them usually seem to rust.

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Can you explain a little more about how you made the hop screen?

How you handled the edges and how you attached both halves together?

Thanks!
 
Can you explain a little more about how you made the hop screen?

How you handled the edges and how you attached both halves together?

Thanks!

No problem. I started by forming a piece of 1/16" diameter stainless steel rod into a frame. This dictated the size and shape of the hop stopper. I butt welded the ends together, but you could probably silver solder them together if you overlapped by a half inch or so. Then, put one piece of screen on top of the frame and one piece below it, slip in the dip tube, and tie (with stainless steel wire) the dip tube to the screens to loosely hold them together. Then tie the screens to the frame with stainless wire approximately every 1.5". At this point the thing really starts to take shape. You better check the fit in your kettle now as you won't be able to easily undo the next step. Trim the screens around the frame so there is 1/2" of screen beyond the frame (the diameter of the screens will be 1" greater than the frame). Divide that 1/2" of screen (the part that overhangs the frame) into thirds in your head or use some sharpie. Fold the first 1/3 over onto the second third and clamp tightly with pliers. Go all the way around the hop stopper. Then, fold the first folded section onto the third 1/3 and clamp tightly. This should put the folded section tightly up against the frame. The folding steps along with the wire frame really tightens up the screens and makes the whole assembly quite strong. It's a little hard to explain, so it doesn't make sense let me know.
 
No problem. I started by forming a piece of 1/16" diameter stainless steel rod into a frame. This dictated the size and shape of the hop stopper. I butt welded the ends together, but you could probably silver solder them together if you overlapped by a half inch of so. Then, put one piece of screen on top of the frame and one piece below it, slip in the dip tube, and tie (with stainless steel wire) the dip tube to the screens to loosely hold them together. Then tie the screens to the frame with stainless wire approximately every 1.5". At this point the thing really starts to take shape. You better check the fit in your kettle now as you won't be able to easily undo the next step. Trim the screens around the frame so there is 1/2" of screen beyond the frame (the diameter of the screens will be 1" greater than the frame). Divide that 1/2" of screen (the part that overhangs the frame) into thirds in your head or use some sharpie. Fold the first 1/3 over onto the second third and clamp tightly with pliers. Go all the way around the hop stopper. Then, fold the first folded section onto the third 1/3 and clamp tightly. This should put the folded section tightly up against the frame. The folding steps along with the wire frame really tightens up the screens and makes the whole assembly quite strong. It's a little hard to explain, so it doesn't make sense let me know.

Got it. Wasn't sure if you did a final sew after folding over, or if the screen was stiff enough to hold on its own.
 
I planned on a final sew, but found out that it's completely unnecessary IMHO. The double fold is really strong... much stronger than I had imagined.
 
We just tested the hop stopper by boiling 3 oz of Cascade pellets in 3-4 gallons of water, dumping it in the keggle, stirring it around, and siphoning it out. The hop stopper left almost everything behind! I'm very pleased and relieved as my research didn't turn up much in the way of optimum mesh size. 28 x 28 with .010" wire size seems to work very well! We'll see how it works with actual wort.

Note: No hops were sacrificed during this test. The hops were accidentally left out of the freezer for several days, resulting in hops that smelled of rabbit food. There was no better use of these hops.

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What came through the hop stopper:
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Very nice work! Actually, I have a Hop-stopper from the guy that came up with the idea and it's a great product, however, the design that you've used here doesn't have a crease in the screen that mine does. I'm going to guess that yours will be even easier to clean.
I like the triclover idea to connect it as I've been just been undoing the compression fitting which is brass (copper dip tube) to take it out. I'm upgrading to SS so I'm looking forward to your updates on that.
 
Very nice work! Actually, I have a Hop-stopper from the guy that came up with the idea and it's a great product, however, the design that you've used here doesn't have a crease in the screen that mine does. I'm going to guess that yours will be even easier to clean.
I like the triclover idea to connect it as I've been just undoing the compression fitting which is brass (copper dip tube) to take it out. I'm upgrading to SS so I'm looking forward to your updates on that.

Thanks! I thought I would need a crease, but after playing with the screen I realized that it's able to be formed into almost any shape. Huge thanks to the guy who came up with the idea. If I didn't want to spend 5 hours building and thinking about this thing I definitely would have bought one!

I just cleaned off the hop hindrance (I guess it needs its own name) and it was easier than expected. Some hop debris got inside, but a quick blast from the hose sent it right back out. Probable took around 2 minutes of hosing. Nice! Can't wait to brew with this!
 
I'm sure you could just boil the hop screen after rinsing for a few minutes to clean and sterilize as well. Or Star-San it.
 
No problem. I started by forming a piece of 1/16" diameter stainless steel rod into a frame. This dictated the size and shape of the hop stopper. I butt welded the ends together, but you could probably silver solder them together if you overlapped by a half inch of so. Then, put one piece of screen on top of the frame and one piece below it, slip in the dip tube, and tie (with stainless steel wire) the dip tube to the screens to loosely hold them together. Then tie the screens to the frame with stainless wire approximately every 1.5". At this point the thing really starts to take shape. You better check the fit in your kettle now as you won't be able to easily undo the next step. Trim the screens around the frame so there is 1/2" of screen beyond the frame (the diameter of the screens will be 1" greater than the frame). Divide that 1/2" of screen (the part that overhangs the frame) into thirds in your head or use some sharpie. Fold the first 1/3 over onto the second third and clamp tightly with pliers. Go all the way around the hop stopper. Then, fold the first folded section onto the third 1/3 and clamp tightly. This should put the folded section tightly up against the frame. The folding steps along with the wire frame really tightens up the screens and makes the whole assembly quite strong. It's a little hard to explain, so it doesn't make sense let me know.

Last question... is this 304 or 316 stainless screen?
 
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