Is being an extract brewer such a bad thing?

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BansheeRider

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I want to make the plunge into AG but I'm nervous about spending the money for new equipment and messing up large batches of beer. Extract brewing is so easy and boring, however I am pleased with the quality of beer I make. I will drink my beer any day over commercial beers.

Is extract brewing such a bad thing? The thought of missing my mash temps, not crushing grain good enough, not meeting expected OG, water chemistry, grain/water ratios, AG partial boils (I only have a 5g kettle), more equipment, adding an extra 1.5 hours to brew days, and overall just more room for error, really is racking my brain. Perhaps I should have started brewing AG and not even messed with the convenience of extract brewing.
 
I want to make the plunge into AG but I'm nervous about spending the money for new equipment and messing up large batches of beer. Extract brewing is so easy and boring, however I am pleased with the quality of beer I make. I will drink my beer any day over commercial beers.

Is extract brewing such a bad thing? The thought of missing my mash temps, not crushing grain good enough, not meeting expected OG, water chemistry, grain/water ratios, AG partial boils (I only have a 5g kettle), more equipment, adding an extra 1.5 hours to brew days, and overall just more room for error, really is racking my brain. Perhaps I should have started brewing AG and not even messed with the convenience of extract brewing.

You do what you want and what works. I don't see brewing with extract as being worth the time, trouble, or money. The results, on a good day, are overshadowed by what you can produce with all grain.

Is making box mac and cheese really cooking?
 
First I want to start with my background....I started a coupe months helping a friend while doing some extract.speciaty grains batches......I wanted to get into it by myself and ended buying equipment....and wanted to step right in and ended up going for all grain.

I just opened a couple of bottles from my first batch and let me tell you I had a couple of problems while doing it....sparge was a mess but it ended up preatty well...look at my last post it is a pic of my batch. So if you are worried about f**king thins up I wil be the first to tell you it is not a big of a deal....the money on the equipment in the other hand is up to you.

I went all grains because extract is first of all really expensive where I live, grain is not so cheap either but it gave me a little room to play around with malted and unmalted grains to get where I want.
 
All grain is a lot of fun. I would probably be making objectively better beers if I did extract but I'm closing in on perfecting my process.

If you're bored of extract, there's your answer. If you make the leap and the thrill of honing your craft isn't enough to make it worth the time, you can sell your kit and go back to extract.
 
i'm a bit of an AG snob so i'm going to try to hold back the impulsiveness a bit.

i will say that extract is costing you extra money and limiting your brewing by forcing you to use certain ingredients. you can buy specialty extracts but there's a premium there as well.

if you brew frequently then all grain will save you money in the end as long as you don't get GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and allow you to brew pretty much whatever you want. you'll save about 30% on fermentables, more if you buy bulk grains. washing yeast is also profitable as liquid yeasts cost $7 a vial and the washing process is as simple as sanitizing a few snapple bottles or spaghetti sauce jars and adding pre boiled water. between the two the cost of a burner and mash tun can be absorbed in a year. unless, of course, you're an infrequent or small batch brewer.
 
Extract is great. Don't think that moving to all grain is going to make your beers better or worse. If you can use a thermometer and a hydrometer than you can do all grain. Forget water chem and all that other technical stuff right now. Make a simple all grain pale ale, just a 2 gallon batch, and get a feel for what you are doing. You can use a couple of grain bags and do it all on your existing setup. If you fail miserably then its less than a case and if it is fun and successful then you can make the plunge and upgrade. It probably won't be as big a deal as you think.
 
AG is so much more satisfying, its all your creation, you get real pride from it, so much more than just opening a tin. All my eleven AG brews have been so much better than any of the four extract brews I have done, I am now committed to AG.
When I present a beer I introduce it, I tell of weighing, smelling, tasting the different malts, the mash and sparge, weighing and smelling the hops, the airlock activity, watching the activity in the FV, bottling and kegging, labbeling, pouring. Then admiring the colour and head, now take a swallow hmmmmmmmmm.

OK I am an AG bore!
 
The thought of missing my mash temps, not crushing grain good enough, not meeting expected OG, water chemistry, grain/water ratios, AG partial boils (I only have a 5g kettle), more equipment, adding an extra 1.5 hours to brew days, and overall just more room for error, really is racking my brain.

If this is gonna rack your brain and piss you off then stick to what you do now. This is the stuff that makes AG more challenging and therefore more rewarding. Plus once you have a couple of AG brews under your belt you will sure get better at it. I started with AG and yes it can be overwhelming at first but the after the first brew/s it all clicks into place.
I guess also it depends on what you want from homebrewing, whether it's just the result of good beer or if you like the process.
 
To answer your question: no, being an extract brewer is NOT such a bad thing. It sounds like you are very content with your beer and your process today. You shouldn't feel compelled to make a switch. Very many homebrewers make very fine beer without going AG. In fact, that was me for about the first 15 years I brewed.

If you are intrigued by the possibilities of AG, but concerned about the time and equipment investment, perhaps you can start with something a little simpler, like BIAB. Try it out for a few small batches to see if the process agrees with you before making a bigger commitment. You can ease yourself into AG. Don't be intimidated by the brew rigs or overwhelmed by technical discussions of all the gearheads on this board!

At the end of the day, this is your hobby. Enjoy it the way you want!
 
CastleHollow said:
To answer your question: no, being an extract brewer is NOT such a bad thing. It sounds like you are very content with your beer and your process today. You shouldn't feel compelled to make a switch.

Concur. But you should know that it really isn't that spendy to go to AG. Keggle plus MLT cooler is all you need. Either can be built cheaply.
 
Concur. But you should know that it really isn't that spendy to go to AG. Keggle plus MLT cooler is all you need. Either can be built cheaply.

Even that much is more than you need. I started all grain with my same setup as I was using with extract and just added a couple of paint strainer bags to do BIAB. It worked so well that 3 years down the path I'm still doing it that way.

Try this on for size. Can you bring 7 gallons of water to 159 degrees? That's the toughest part of all grain, getting the water to the right temperature when you start. If you can do that without stressing, you're ready to go.

Alternately, you can do as I did and do a half size batch. Your risk is the cost of the grains which isn't much. The reward is complete freedom to use whatever grains you want instead of the mix the maltster chose for you when they made the extract.
 
Going to all grain is not that big of an expense. You need a Mash Tun(I spent $43 at menards for my supplies for a 5 gallon), Wort chiller(spent about $30). grains are alot cheaper than extracts. It might extend your brew day to about 4 hrs or so(most of that time is spent waiting for the water/wort to heat up, including 1 hr mash time). I brew on a gas stovetop. I did it this past spring and know I have saved quite a bit of money, but I brew once a week.
 
with all the different extracts,& different countries making extract that cater to the tastes of the populace,you can do a lot more with extracts than people think. Like an Australian Cooper's can with some munich LME & American hops. Vienna is also available in LME form now. Weyerman's has some too,but I can't find it over here. You're limited only by your imagination & search abilities.
So freakin what if it costs more! Good,competition winning beers have been made from extract. It's all a matter of the brewer's artfull imagination. I did what I called recombinent extract for the first 2 years or so. I used more Cooper's cans than most on here. Still use some in partial mashes every now & again.
Which brings me to a point no one else mentioned-PB/PM BIAB (Partial Boil,Partial Mash Brew In A Bag). This way,all I had to add was a large nylon paint strainer bag from LDCarlson & a cake cooling rack to fit in the bottom of the same 5 gallon BK now BK/MT I've been using from the start. So I mash some 5-6lbs of crushed grains in 2 gallons of spring water @ 153-155F. Sparge with 1.5-1.75 gallons of slightly hotter water to get a boil volume of 3.5-3.75 gallons in that self same 5 gallon (20qt) SS stock pot.
And partial mash kits with US-05 yeast are about $25,so that's pretty cheap for 5 gallons of good beer.
 
Comparing extract to box mac and cheese is ignorant.

This.

I'll bet you ten to one that I can brew up an extract with specialty grains beer that tastes as good, if not better, than just about anything you can buy or brew up AG.

That being said, AG isn't really the scary monster of expense I think you're making it out to be. I would just do a few small batch beers (five gallons or less) using BIAB techniques for all grain on your stove top until you get the technique down.

I do my AG batches BIAB either on the stove top this way, or in a turkey fryer pot with an inner fry basket. I picked it up on the clearance rack at lowes a while ago along with a 60,000 BTU bayou classic jet burner. The inner fry basket makes BIAB so easy. You just use metal binder clips to clip the nylon bag inside of it and dump the grain into that. I mash right in there. Monitor your temps and maintain between 148-155f for an hour for your mash and you'll be fine. Then, I just pick up the fry basket and all that wonderful wort comes draining out of the bag.

No sparge, just a few dunks back into the wort to rinse out the sugars. I add 10% extra to my grain bills and ask for a double crush from my LHBS and usually hit my numbers or exceed them. My last BIAB a week ago was 90% efficiency.

Do whatever works for you. Don't invest in AG until you feel like you want to try it.
 
I think that as long as you're satisfied with your beer, then there is no reason to change!

I don't care if someone brews "kit and a kilo" beers, extract, or all-grain. If they are happy with the results, then that is the right way for them to brew. The whole point of homebrewing is to make a beer that YOU love. That's it!
 
All Grain? You can't handle All Grain!!!

Just kidding. It's actually pretty easy. Like anything else it takes a little time, a little money, and a little patience. Once you get a few batches under your belt your beer will get better. When I started I made a couple of real stinker batches. Now I get pretty consistent results. My process is pretty solid and I understand how my setup works to the point where I can brew 2 batches at the same time without having a panic attack half-way through the boil. :D

When I started I picked one aspect of the breing process to focus on for each batch. I built most of my equipment, which I think helps you understand how everything works. I started with the crush and getting the mash right - then I moved on to oxygenation - then to fermentation temps - then to water chemistry. Each batch got a little bit better. I'd say it took a year to get everything figured out. I thought about throwing in the towel a few times, but I'm glad I stuck it out.

I think you can get a basic setup for under $100 assuming you already have a turkey fryer setup. If not, add another $50.

If you don't like it, you can always sell your setup.

you-cant-handle-the-truth1.jpg
 
Comparing extract to box mac and cheese is ignorant.

+1

Lots and Lots of extract brewers out there! Lots of all grain brewers start with extract.....including yours truly. I started 15 years ago with a mr. beer, and I'm here to tell you that you can make pretty d*mm good beer with extract. A good analogy to think of is, with the home baker who make pie with professionally premade pie crust, but does everything else vs someone who makes the crust from scratch.........is one really better than the other?? Maybe, we have the idea that the homemade one is better, but......

Look I'm an all grain brewer, and have been for YEARS....I even make and sell custom implements for all grain brewers.....but I submit that there is way too much conceit floating around, and if someone wants to get into brewing should we be discouraging them from doing so if there budget and skill level indicates a extract system. We should encourage new brewers, the more the merrier, after all:D
 
Not sure how "bad" it is. I started brewing AG early this year, but there are still several extract and partial mash kits that I like and that I brew. The great thing about extract brewing is you can make a pretty descent beer in about a third of the time of an AG batch.

Don't let the critics shy you away from brewing extract beer. Some people seem to get angry when you don't agree with them entirely.

The best way to handle the question is to ask yourself what you want to do. If you want to continue brewing extract, then continue. If you really want to go all grain, go all grain. Just remember, you can always brew an extract batch any time you want.... even if you have gone all grain.
 
Uh, no. Heat water. Add powdered mix. Boil. Sounds pretty much like the exact same thing.

Um, well you can say that about anything cooking.
Can you grill a filet mignon? Just just put in on the grill flip it and take it off. Will it be a steak yes, but with technique it can be excellent without adding much. Nuance is the key in extract, you can make decent beer with it, if you look at it like something overly basic. You can also make very good beer if you really monitor your extract process.

I agree with making a BIAB small batch. All you need is a bag, it's a good way to see if you can handle doing AG. I still BIAB, just had to buy a bigger kettle and a propane burner for 5 gallon batches.
 
It's all good if a good process is applied. I brew PB/PM BIAB now,but still like to brew the Cooper's English Bitter. Great with pit BBQ,& as a mop sauce. Using DME in the boil for hop additions & LME at flame out can make quite good beer.
Brew what you like the way you like it. All else being equal,you'll get good beer regardless. I don't think it's right to force AG down a persons throat if they like the way they brew now. AG isn't the end all of the brewer's art. The brewer's skill & imagination is.
 
I had the low equipment level problem, my boil pot is only 19L to the rim. As soon as I made a simple spread sheet that automatically reduced all elements of the recipes to suit my equipment and small brew volumes , it all became much much easier.
 
Look, there is nothing wrong with brewing extract if you like your beer. However, if you THINK you are bored with extract, then why not try AG??

There are some simple facts:

You can brew AG with nothing more than the stuff you already have AND a paint strainer bag.
Hitting temps, correct crush, etc. are NOT HARD. Many idiots every day do this stuff and make great beer!
The technical difference between AG and Extract are adding warm water to the grain, waiting an hour, and draining out the water. THAT IS IT!
You don't have to understand EVERYTHING there is to know about AG in order to brew AG. It's a simple process that can be explained in a few short sentences.
Once you start with AG you will *probably* want to read more about it and there is where the fun is!
It's a fact that as of right now you have more control over the wort of your beer with AG than you do using extract.

In the end it's about what YOU want to do. You can absolutely make most beer as good as AG using extract if you process is optimized. The important things are sanitation, temp control, yeast health and pitch rate, careful handling post fermentation. Notice that these things are all AFTER the wort creation?? Once you have a recipe, either AG or EXTRACT are pretty simple.

So my suggestion is to go buy a paint strainer bag, or buy a BIAB bag from an online lhbs, and make a beer with AG! You can make a high gravity wort and dilute with cooling water, negating the necessity of a wort chiller, or you can brew a smaller batch and cool using ice bath.

All you need is a recipe for that size batch, get the grains crushed at the store, heat some water, add grain, stir well, check temp and keep it at (149-156 ish), strain, dunk in another pot of water, combine, begin boil. ( You can also NOT rinse the grain if you like, or if you have a kettle big enough for full boils, you are set to make full batches anyway.)

IMO there isn't a good reason not to brew AG if you are interested in it, are not satisfied with your extract beers (And think there is something about AG that will correct the problem) and want to spend the extra hour or so it takes to mash. It's not nearly as hard as you think it is. I know, because I felt the same way when I first tried AG. Right after I thought, "Pfffft! Big deal.."
 
Extract is great. Don't think that moving to all grain is going to make your beers better or worse. If you can use a thermometer and a hydrometer than you can do all grain. Forget water chem and all that other technical stuff right now. Make a simple all grain pale ale, just a 2 gallon batch, and get a feel for what you are doing. You can use a couple of grain bags and do it all on your existing setup. If you fail miserably then its less than a case and if it is fun and successful then you can make the plunge and upgrade. It probably won't be as big a deal as you think.

+1 on this. The main reason most brewers get better results from AG than from extract is that their brewing techniques improve over time, and most START with extract and END with AG. I started brewing extract w/steeping grains, then moved to AG, then (long story omitted) back to extract. My last extract beers were way better than my first AG beers because _I_ got better in my brewing: better oxygenation, better fermentation temperature control, correct sized starters, better understanding of the characteristics of my yeast, hops & malt, cold conditioning, etc.

But if you're bored, there are many avenues of homebrewing you could travel down besides AG. You could focus on yeast propagation and management, package control (kegging/bottling/storage), unusual styles/extreme brewing, tricking out your brewpot, etc. The main reason I went back to AG was to gain more control over the base malt of my beer (insert "boxed cake mix vs. baking from scratch" metaphor here), and to reduce the cost of the ingredients. It's not cheaper, however, in the SHORT run to switch to AG because of needing extra equipment, but you can make the switch in cheaper steps (BIAB for example).
 
Yeah,true. If a person wants to try it then fine. Or even partial mash which is great fun. But too many on this forum make people feel that brewing all grain & kegging is the way to go. and that we should all espire to it. I say do what you want when you want to. Step it up when you get comfortable with what you're doing now. Just don't let peer pressure make your decisions for you.
 
I moved from extract to partial mash pretty quickly, and the results were definitely better beer. I've done 3 gallon AG as well and I have no desire to go back to steeping/extract. I do a lot of PM where I mash as much grain as possible and supplement with some DME/LME based on this simple table: http://www.jaysbrewing.com/2011/11/17/lazy-chart-for-converting-dme-lme-grain/

Each to his own, though. If you're happy with extract who's to say you should do something else?

Personally, I'll have an MLT by Christmas, after which I will have completed my transition to full batch AG. Pretty psyched about that. My wife will be too as my whole operation will be completely out of the kitchen. :)
 
Yeah,true. If a person wants to try it then fine. Or even partial mash which is great fun. But too many on this forum make people feel that brewing all grain & kegging is the way to go. and that we should all espire to it. I say do what you want when you want to. Step it up when you get comfortable with what you're doing now. Just don't let peer pressure make your decisions for you.

[RANT]
True that! I got rid of all my kegging equipment and have no desire to go back. I love the convenience of having my bottling all done at once and not having to go back and counter-pressure fill for competitions, or fill growlers when I want portable beer, or to give away to guests spur of the moment. And don't even get me started on some of the crap I've tasted from HB buddies who don't stay on top of keeping their beer lines and taps clean. But to listen to some, you'd think bottling was going to kill them!
[/RANT]
 
I've got a good bottling process that allows me to sit in a comfortable position while filling the bottles. I have a bottle tree & vinator that make sanitizing quick & easy. not to mention having all the bottles in about a 2 square foot space,making them quick to grab while filling with the other hand.
bottling is just less hassele to me,& I'm begining to enjoy it...:drunk:;)
 
:off:

I've got a good bottling process that allows me to sit in a comfortable position while filling the bottles. I have a bottle tree & vinator that make sanitizing quick & easy. not to mention having all the bottles in about a 2 square foot space,making them quick to grab while filling with the other hand.
bottling is just less hassele to me,& I'm begining to enjoy it...:drunk:;)

Oh, yeah, I remember seeing your video. I do it similarly, thanks to Revvy's sticky. Bottle tree, vinator, bottling wand attached to spigot. The only thing I'm wanting to change is my capper - I use a wing capper, but I have a vintage bench capper I'm going to try mounting and using.
 
"Do your thing man"

^^ this. if you like extract, do extract. it's about making beer, not how you make beer. but as someone who just switched, I can tell you that it's a lot of fun to make AG. yes it is a more complicated, longer day and more can go wrong. but that's what makes if fun - the extra challenge. and the fact that you mentioned that you are kind of bored with extract makes me think you might like it. as for wasting big batches if something goes wrong, my normal AG brew size is 3 gal, and I often do 1 or 2 gallon batches.
 
All grain is actually really easy, its sounds way more difficult that it really is at the end of the day. But myself as several others I started with extract kits and made some awesome beers. Still to this day I made kit beers that are on the top of my list as favorites I've made more than once. But for me now that I've been brewing all grain, it has become somewhat of an addiction. All grain makes awesome beer right away, and it is in all honesty very difficult to screw up an all grain batch. We all brew what we like, so don't be afraid to explore options and do what you like. BIAB is a minimal investment, and a great way to decide whether you'll want to invest more into all grain down the road.
 
Is being an extract brewer such a bad thing?
Not at all.

It's YOUR hobby, make it what YOU want it to be. There's nothing worse than a hobby that turns into a job!
 
If it is mainly the money thing your going to equal out the new equipment cost pretty quickly by going all grain. The cost of grain is a lot cheaper than extract. After a couple of batches you will probably get your process down and be making better beers than you are with extract.

Either way it is your beer so do what you want.
 
You do what you want and what works. I don't see brewing with extract as being worth the time, trouble, or money. The results, on a good day, are overshadowed by what you can produce with all grain.

Is making box mac and cheese really cooking?

Wow great info from everybody, except the comment quoted above. I guess I will just have to plunge right into AG and learn by trial and error. I have a Coleman cooler that I never use, maybe I can go to the hardware store and purchase a valve to install. I only have a 5 gallon kettle, can I do AG partial boils for 5 gallon batches? I guess I would have to have very concentrated wort for the boil. I would also really like to use a mash tun rather than the BIAB method.
 
Extract brewing is a crime against humanity!

But we're here to help!

Send all of your extract brews to your HBT friends for proper disposal, and we'll forgive you your sins.
 
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