Slowly improving, slowly

Sorry about the length of this post.

I just did up another brew, both as a practice run as well as a test batch.

I wanted to find out the qualities of Maris Otter and wanted to see the kind of efficiency I could get. I used Willamette Hops for backbone and a touch of Hallertau for aroma. I really wanted to perfect my method and improve my process.

10lbs Maris Otter
2oz Willamette(30min)
.5oz Hallertau (15min)

I used a corona mill (which by the way, I will be using the drill adapter next time as my arm is killing me), 60 mash and decided to do the fly sparge once again as it is what I have done before...

...here is what I found out. I got good efficiency poorly. What I mean is that I got 1.050, and yet ended up with getting a cold sparge...again! I heated my water up to 180*F to sparge with and even did a mash out up to 165*F. Still though the wort came out at 155*F. Hotter next time I guess.

Then, I don't understand this part. I sparged out 6.5 gal and boiled it for an hour and in the end came out with 5 gal. I was looking for 5.5gal. Now I figure that I could always add some liquid back, but I am sitting right at 1.050 and have been making lower beers the last two batches and didn't look forward to another at 4.5%abv.

I mean, the two things that I am looking for are efficiency and volume control. I know that heat will help the efficiency as well as trying a batch sparge (I am not against it, I just want to understand the fly). Volume though I am having some serious trouble with because I can measure what goes into the boil and what comes out, but how do I know when I have enough in the pot (a converted topless keg)? It's not like I can cut the boil short once the hops are in.

Back to what I said at the beginning, this was a test and practice. In the end I am happy that I have 5 gallons of beer for $30 that I will drink. I really got a good idea of how to sparge better, how to get my efficiency up and also how to use more time saving tools (instant hot water heater gets to 167* in about ten seconds, 30,000 BTU burner is super useful). It is a learning experience and I am happy, but I want more perfection.

Any comments would be appreciated on my way.

Sounds like y our boil off rate is just greater than you're expecting. I would just add some water to your sparge. I use a stick with measurements on it (that I made for my pot, so I know it is accurate) to get the volume I need, and I find that to hit 5.5 gallons in the fermenter, I need to collect about 7 gallons.

This is all about fine tuning your process not just on the boil, but on the amount of wort you collect. Adding water is an option as well, but I think you'd be happier and get better efficiency if you just gathered more wort.

Are you forgetting about grain absorbtion?

I have had problems in the past with using a specific amount of water. This time however I just kept adding the water until I had 6.5gal at the end.

I think that I will invest in a dowel and mark it. It is $1 well spent.

Matt Up North said:

I have had problems in the past with using a specific amount of water. This time however I just kept adding the water until I had 6.5gal at the end.

I think that I will invest in a dowel and mark it. It is $1 well spent.

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A dowel will get gross pretty fast, I'm thinking. I'd suggest something a bit more sturdy. Like a giant stainless spoon that you can mark with a dremel.

Yes, I want you to spend way too much money.

Sounds like you are moving in the right direction.
The volume is easy to fix. Collect an extra 0.5g next time, and you should end up with 5.5g. Every system varies a bit here, so what's right for your system is not necessarily right for somebody else's.
As for the cool sparge, don't pay any attention to the temperature of the collected wort. The tube from your MLT to the kettle, will act as a radiator, and cool the wort down, and the kettle itself will act as a heat sink. My wort temperature in the kettle is round about 140F, but the grain bed is between 165 and 170F.
You said in your previous post that you have a sparge ring. Is this really a ring with a hole in the middle, or is it a false bottom? If it is a ring, then you will rinse out all of the sugars from the grains close to the ring, leaving a lot of sugars behind in the middle of the tun. If it is a false bottom, then it will catch the runnings across the entire base of the tun, and you will get much better efficiency if you sparge slowly enough.

-a.

You said in your previous post that you have a sparge ring. Is this really a ring with a hole in the middle, or is it a false bottom? If it is a ring, then you will rinse out all of the sugars from the grains close to the ring, leaving a lot of sugars behind in the middle of the tun.

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So what is the way to get the most sugar out using the ring?

Batch sparging.
With a batch sparge, you add the water, and stir really well. It is the stirring that dissolves the sugars rather than the water slowly filtering through the grain bed as happens with fly sparging.

-a.

ajf said:

Batch sparging.
With a batch sparge, you add the water, and stir really well. It is the stirring that dissolves the sugars rather than the water slowly filtering through the grain bed as happens with fly sparging.

-a.

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Right. I will try that next time i guess.

+1 on batch sparging. It is much easier and I believe will get you a better efficiency unless you have a really good fly sparge set up.

Don’t give up on fly sparging completely. I improved my efficiency by 8 points when I went from a batch to a hybrid fly sparge.

Sounds like the ring may be your cold-water culprit.

Next time consider this method:

Heat your sparge water to 185 degrees.

Instead of using the ring to continually add sparge water to your mash, use a simple pot to gently ladle in the hotter water on top of your mash liquid…keeping about 2 inches of the hot liquor on the grain bed. Drain the wort from the tun slowly…but faster that you did with a ring-drip system.

On one hand you’re ladling in the water in the same fashion as a batch sparge…but you’re not stirring and hence moving the clean water through the grain bed in the same way fly sparging does.

My wort continues to flow out of the tun at better than 150+ degrees.

Batch sparging is quicker…but it’s generally agreed that fly sparging improves your efficiency.

BM,

Quote from his previous thread.
"I am using a keg with a copper lauter ring in the bottom."

I read that as he is using the ring to collect the wort, not dispense the water.


Matt,
I just realized you are using a keg as a MLT. How much grain depth do you have. I suspect it could be very shallow for a fly sparge for a 5g batch, but could be better for 10g. Also, is the tun insulated? An uninsulated tun will cool very quickly.
Could you add some cross members to your lauter ring so that it could collect wort from the middle as well as the edge? That would improve your efficiency with a fly sparge.

-a.

BM, I am using a copper lauter ring in the bottom, not to dispense the water. I think that I just need to up the temperature of my water to around 185-195.

AJF, the grain depth is pretty good actually, around 6 inches. The keg holds the temp the entire time I mash and I'm not worried about insulating. Might have to start mashing out at 175 before lautering though.

With the shape of the keg, you might be able to get some cross members in there, but then the simplicity would be gone from the ring. I mean, next step seems to be a false bottom, though for that kind of investment I don't mind losing a little bit of efficiency.

All in all, it comes down to being one more thing to try and improve next time. Hotter water, hotter wort, batch sparge and on and on.

ajf said:

BM,

Quote from his previous thread.
"I am using a keg with a copper lauter ring in the bottom."

I read that as he is using the ring to collect the wort, not dispense the water.



-a.

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My bad...