Pump wort without losing liquid

I made a little diagram to explain my concern. Let's say I need to transfer wort from kettle A to kettle B using a pomp, and let's say that I have a marsh pump. I heard that a marsh pump can't dry run, which as I understand, means that there must always have liquid in it in order to pump. Does that means that I lose some wort in A?

Typically, yes. I just did a test last night of my rig. 2 6-foot hoses and my pump holds about 560ml of liquid. So you're not losing a lot. You're probably going to lose more in the dead space of the kettle you're transferring from.

Along the same lines, can you pump into the bottom of vessel B or does it need to go "over the top"?

LandoLincoln said:

Typically, yes. I just did a test last night of my rig. 2 6-foot hoses and my pump holds about 560ml of liquid. So you're not losing a lot. You're probably going to lose more in the dead space of the kettle you're transferring from.

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You don't lose much, though, as you mentioned.

I don't care about the water in my hoses, but at the end of the boil I have quite a bit of wort in the chiller, pumps, hoses, so I just switch the hose over to A (in that diagram), which has a wee bit of water in it, and then pump until that water is seen at the end. It also gets me a start on cleaning as well, but ridding the coil and tubing and pump of sticky wort.

Mrmojo said:

Along the same lines, can you pump into the bottom of vessel B or does it need to go "over the top"?

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You could pump to the bottom, although I don't know how much " head "those pumps can produce, so if vessel "B" was a little lower than "A", you would get a good transfer I imagine.

Yooper said:

You don't lose much, though, as you mentioned. , so I just switch the hose over to A (in that diagram), which has a wee bit of water in it, and then pump until that water is seen at the end.

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I do the same thing.
I learned it from a German brewery while interning in 1995.

Cheers,
ClaudiuB

Could you do an airblow on the line with compressed air?

When I'm done pumping I just unhook the hoses and drain whatever is left into a container. If its on the hot side I put it into kettle b. if its cold side I just discard it. You don't lose a lot.

boat_eggs said:

Could you do an airblow on the line with compressed air?

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Possibly...........Prolly' better to use your C O2 source if you have one......No chance of oil from your compressor.

Such a small amount of liquid. Just account for it in your recipe if you want and start out with enough to make your final volume.

Stealthcruiser said:

You could pump to the bottom, although I don't know how much " head "those pumps can produce, so if vessel "B" was a little lower than "A", you would get a good transfer I imagine.

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You would actually need more head to pump up and over the B kettle rim. March pumps should not have any issue with either method in normal homebrew setups.

OK thanks guys. I might just boil some water on the side and put in in kettle A to finish the transfer and stop when I see the water, as suggested by Yooper.

I just detach the pipe from vessel A and blow the liquid out of the line out with my compressor. Lose very little that way.

I do worry about infection but have not had an infection in ± 25 brews. Hope I'm not tempting fate. I just dip the line nozzle in some sanitizer before using.

Wheelspin said:

I just detach the pipe from vessel A and blow the liquid out of the line out with my compressor. Lose very little that way.

I do worry about infection but have not had an infection in ± 25 brews. Hope I'm not tempting fate. I just dip the line nozzle in some sanitizer before using.

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Hopefully your compressor is the oil-free type. Even then, that air isn't that clean and it's not uncommon to have condensed water in the air compressor hose that you'd be blowing into your lines.

jpalarchio said:

Hopefully your compressor is the oil-free type. Even then, that air isn't that clean and it's not uncommon to have condensed water in the air compressor hose that you'd be blowing into your lines.

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I do second this notion. I spayed my motorcycle a few years back and every 10 minutes or so I would stop and drain the line or else is start shooting water. There are check valves that act as an anti-siphon that I highly recommend.

On topic: what if you were to use a 2-stage pump system where the early pump would be the pusher and the later pump would be the final puller. Use a cheaper US solar pump on the delivery side.

I'm trying to follow Yooper's and Claudius' advice but can not see the diagram for some reason. Can sombody offer a suggestion or more verbal explaination? I'm trying to visualize.

thanks

BurgBrewer said:

what if you were to use a 2-stage pump system where the early pump would be the pusher and the later pump would be the final puller. Use a cheaper US solar pump on the delivery side.

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Let's step back and think about what we're talking about here. It's a couple ounces of liquid. Simplify and just make more!

jpalarchio said:

Let's step back and think about what we're talking about here. It's a couple ounces of liquid. Simplify and just make more!

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True, true. All that for making sure that you don't lose 19 ounces of wort?

LandoLincoln said:

True, true. All that for making sure that you don't lose 19 ounces of wort?

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19 oz is a pint, one whole pint!

rodduley said:

I'm trying to follow Yooper's and Claudius' advice but can not see the diagram for some reason. Can sombody offer a suggestion or more verbal explaination? I'm trying to visualize.

thanks

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they have accepted the fact that the wort left in the lines is not going to make it into the fermentor / boil kettle. so once all the wort has been pumped. they switch hose going into the pump to a vessel with water in it and pump out to the drain or grass or sink until water is running out clear.

-=Jason=-

jpalarchio said:

Let's step back and think about what we're talking about here. It's a couple ounces of liquid. Simplify and just make more!

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And then take a step forward and think about where you could better use those oz. - hydro sample

On my setup, My pump is about 12" below the bottom of both pots. Due to the need of priming my pump I installed a "T" fitting on the outlet of the pump with a ball valve and stainless nipple. Another ball valve on the adjacent side of the "T" to wherever I want the liquid to go. Once its done pumping, I open the valve into a clean ex-fermenter bucket. I then pour it into the pot for minimal loss.

FYI-

1/2" hose should hold about 1.3 ounces per foot.

So in a 6 ft hose, you can't even fill a glass.

ForestGroveBrewer said:

On my setup, My pump is about 12" below the bottom of both pots. Due to the need of priming my pump I installed a "T" fitting on the outlet of the pump with a ball valve and stainless nipple. Another ball valve on the adjacent side of the "T" to wherever I want the liquid to go. Once its done pumping, I open the valve into a clean ex-fermenter bucket. I then pour it into the pot for minimal loss.

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That's actually a pretty good idea.

So after your suggestions, I came up with that. That would be a rims system with one pump and two sets of heating elements (for kettle and hlt).

What do you guys think?



I didn't include the electrical stuff yet, that will be for another post!

Moose1231 said:

19 oz is a pint, one whole pint!

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Haha oh man you would die if you saw how much wort/beer I dump down the drain every day at work!

Moose1231 said:

So after your suggestions, I came up with that. That would be a rims system with one pump and two sets of heating elements (for kettle and hlt). What do you guys think? I didn't include the electrical stuff yet, that will be for another post!

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How are you going to sparge? You need one of those hoses to go from the hlt to the shower head while at the same time one goes from the mlt to the bk.

BigJay13 said:

How are you going to sparge? You need one of those hoses to go from the hlt to the shower head while at the same time one goes from the mlt to the bk.

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Yeah, I realized that when I posted the image. The hlt will be higher and will sparge the water by gravity in the mlt, by the top.

Although in the configuration, I could batch sparge

Moose1231 said:

Yeah, I realized that when I posted the image. The hlt will be higher and will sparge the water by gravity in the mlt, by the top. Although in the configuration, I could batch sparge

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Ok then it will work. That's how I have mine configured. Batch sparging would negate the whole purpose of having a rims system, right?

Hmm, I don't know how it would...Sparge and mash are 2 different things...

Moose1231 said:

Hmm, I don't know how it would...Sparge and mash are 2 different things...

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I agree, Ithink you could batch sparge - don't know how it would effect efficincy and it would likely take just as long as fly sparging.
If it was me I would:
1) Drain the MLT first runnings - pumped to kettle,
2) Pump the sparge water to top of MLT
3) Recirc MLT for xx minutes (IDK 15 minutes maybe?)
4) Drain second runnings to kettle