3 FLoyds Zombie Dust attempt. Help/info requested

Pale Malt wont make a big difference; you will be fine. The OG difference is probably due to efficiency. What do you have your default set as?

I usually let it primary for around 14 days, rack to a keg or secondary, and then dryhop. I have drank it as young as about 3 weeks and it was good, but it gets really good a couple weeks later.

skeezerpleezer said:

Pale Malt wont make a big difference; you will be fine. The OG difference is probably due to efficiency. What do you have your default set as?

I usually let it primary for around 14 days, rack to a keg or secondary, and then dryhop. I have drank it as young as about 3 weeks and it was good, but it gets really good a couple weeks later.

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Sweet. Sorry - 70% efficiency; I thought that is what you had too.

I think mine was based on 75%.

Brewed the AG recipe from page 1 with S-04 fermented at 64deg F. Holy crap! Awesome stuff! Definitely on my list of beers to NEVER run out of.

I've brewed this a few times now and absolutely love it, even changed out the hops a few times the latest being zythos and it's delicious. The only difference I can detect between the real thing and this recipe with citra hops is SRM.. Mine always turns out quite a bit darker than FFF-ZD. Has anyone else noticed this or had similar results? Either way, thanks a ton for the great recipe.

So is the consensus that Wyeast 1968 is the yeast to use? Want to try this over the weekend. Thanks

PJM said:

So is the consensus that Wyeast 1968 is the yeast to use? Want to try this over the weekend. Thanks

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That's what I use when I brew this one.

PJM said:

So is the consensus that Wyeast 1968 is the yeast to use? Want to try this over the weekend. Thanks

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I used S04 at 64 DegF and it turned out great. It works fast and clears out very nicely, in my case no need for a secondary. I really didn't notice much imparted taste and if there was any it worked very nicely. I'll be using S04 again. Whatever you do make sure you can control your ferm temp.

Kobainisalive said:

That's what I use when I brew this one.

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do you use a starter? i would think that would get it below the suggested final gravity

doublehaul said:

do you use a starter? i would think that would get it below the suggested final gravity

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Yeah, I always use starters. No problems hitting my numbers.

Just tasted this after 10 days. My recipe was modified a bit but my of was 1.072 and my fg hit 1.018 with us05. The sample was great and I threw my dry hops right in the primary. Can't wait to drink it

skeezerpleezer said:

Pale Malt wont make a big difference; you will be fine. The OG difference is probably due to efficiency. What do you have your default set as?

I usually let it primary for around 14 days, rack to a keg or secondary, and then dryhop. I have drank it as young as about 3 weeks and it was good, but it gets really good a couple weeks later.

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Skeezer.... just wondering why so long on primary? I've made this 4 times now. 1st all grain attempt is in the fermenter right now since last Sunday. My previous batches have been done in primary in 4-6 days. Using 2 pkgs of S-04. I haven't had the chance to pull a gravity reading on this batch yet but I will tonight and my guess is come Sunday I'll get the same reading.

1st batch was the best but all 3 have been good enough that it doesn't last too long around my house.
Thanks for the great recipe.

Mostly due to laziness and to let more of the yeast to drop out prior to dryhopping. Primary fermentation is usually done by 5 days or so though.

bluebrew17 said:

How the heck did you get 65 IBUs for this 6 gallon one? When I enter it into beersmith, it says 108 IBUs. For example .75 oz 12.4% = 26.9 IBUs when i enter it (20 mins). Also 1.25 oz 12.4% @ 15 min = 36.7 IBUs

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The recipe does not look to have the boil time factored into the FWH:
- 0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.0 IBU***

I get 82 IBU (total) in BeerSmith when I enter .75 Citra FWH 60 min & keep all other hops additions the same.

From Brad Smith (BeerSmith author):

Brad Smith April 10, 2012 at 3:20 pm
For a first wort hop the correct time to enter is the boil time (60 minutes for a 60 minute boil).

I'm going with .75 Citra FWH w/ 60 min boil because that's what Skeezer & others worked out as the best hop combo regardless of what the IBUs end up at.

Thanks everyone for your work on this, going to brew it this weekend - excited

Yeah, the actual ibus and "perceived" ibus are different. It seems most people agree that FWH gives a "smoother" bitterness, so the calculating as 20 instead of 60 is to reflect that. It definitely doesn't taste like an 82 IBU beer.

I got 115 calculated IBUs for a low OG IIPA with lots of late additions, and very little early additions. The real IBUs were probably only about 55-65.

The reverse can also be true. The Can You Brew It podcast for high OG "Dankness IIPA" measures only at about 45 IBUs when you plug it into brew software, but it's probably much higher than that with all of the late additions.

Flameout additions can add some IBUs, which can be more substantial if you flameout with 3-4 oz. obviously as opposed to the typical 0-2 oz.

I just tapped my attempt at this brew last night. It's awesome! Can't wait to do a side by side with the real thing. My version is definitely a tad more bitter than zombie dust. Color looks great, nice aroma, and I'm guessing it's real close. Will update after I do the side by side with the real deal.

Can anyone tell me the water profile used for this recipe?

jmich24 said:

Can anyone tell me the water profile used for this recipe?

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I started in the NW Chicago burbs without treating at all. Now i am in North Atlanta (used a tsp of gypsum on the last batch). I don't have the #s handy though

Hey thanks for the recipe it looks great I love Zombie Dust..I did an extract version 2 weeks ago that's going into bottles tomorrow. I recently started going all grain last week, and plan to do a ag version of this Thursday to compare.

I am using iBrewmaster, and every time I plug the numbers in I can't get the same OG. I always come up to around 1.055 for all grain, and I think it was around the same for extract. Is the OG right for a 6 gallon batch in the recipe posted? It could just be due to the different programs, but so far I hit my extract version OG right on target, and the first AG brew I did last week was right on target too.

Am I putting something in wrong to get these numbers? I just wanted to check as I am going to get the ingredients tomorrow..should I add more 2-row to get to that target OG, or follow the recipe and have a lighter beer? Sorry if this is hard to read..it's 2:00 am and I am typing this out on my cell phone. Thanks for the help

edit: so I ran the numbers again and realized I was set to 70% efficiency...is your recipe assuming 80% efficiency? I added 2lbs of 2-row at 70% and hit the numbers right on, does this sound right? Sorry for the newb question I just started AG this last week. can't wait until this is ready!

I just transferred my primary (16 days) into my keg last night and put in three tea balls filled with 3 ounces of Citra in total for dry hopping. My F.G. was 1.020 and my O.G. was 1.067, so it appears that I hit the target values pretty well. My calculated IBUs are at 68 and I mashed at 154F for 60 minutes. Also, I used Safale US-04, rehydrated with sterile water. I tasted the hydrometer sample from the end of primary and it was very good (Citra bomb). My only variation was that I eliminated the 1/2 lb of melanioden malt and substituted and extra 1/2 lb of Munich malt. I'm really looking forward to this one and plan to enter it in a contest on September 15th.

MW66 said:

I just transferred my primary (16 days) into my keg last night and put in three tea balls filled with 3 ounces of Citra in total for dry hopping. My F.G. was 1.020 and my O.G. was 1.067, so it appears that I hit the target values pretty well. My calculated IBUs are at 68 and I mashed at 154F for 60 minutes. Also, I used Safale US-04, rehydrated with sterile water. I tasted the hydrometer sample from the end of primary and it was very good (Citra bomb). My only variation was that I eliminated the 1/2 lb of melanioden malt and substituted and extra 1/2 lb of Munich malt. I'm really looking forward to this one and plan to enter it in a contest on September 15th.

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Question on the tea balls filled with hops. How long do you leave those in the keg? If it is going to take me a month to finish the keg, is it okay to leave them in there that entire time?

I'm leaving it in the keg for 10 days maximum, then placing it in my keezer to carbonate.

If it is cold the whole time a month is probably ok. I haven't had any issues with keg hopping, but they don't usually last over a month.

can anyone tell me what a first wort hop is? Do I put in 1.75 ounces at 60 minutes? Im a bit confused! Thanks

dabull25 said:

can anyone tell me what a first wort hop is? Do I put in 1.75 ounces at 60 minutes? Im a bit confused! Thanks

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First wort hopping is when you put the hops in (the boil kettle) when you start your runoff usually from fly sparging. This way the hops are sitting in the wort pre boil for the 45 to 60 minutes. This is supposed to increase ibu's but they are perceived as smoother (some say closer to a 20 minute addition). I say it is more bitter but not like a 20 minute addition, kind of hard to explain. Usually replaces a 60 minute or 20 minute addition for some.

I noticed that the clone recipes listed here are all single hopped Citra. For the record, Zombie Dust is NOT 100% Citra. This is from the horses mouth too-- "It's "mostly" Citra".

And with Citra not being a bittering hop, this makes sense. I was not told what other hops were involved, no surprise there, but if I were to take a stab, my guess is it's bittered with Summit or Warrior. Just food for thought really. An all Citra hop beer can indeed be done. I'm simply referring to Zombie Dust specifically.

For credibility, my source is 3F brewer and personal friend, Andrew Mason-- and I'm the brewer for The Livery in Benton Harbor, MI.

SpoonBrew said:

I noticed that the clone recipes listed here are all single hopped Citra. For the record, Zombie Dust is NOT 100% Citra. This is from the horses mouth too-- "It's "mostly" Citra".

And with Citra not being a bittering hop, this makes sense. I was not told what other hops were involved, no surprise there, but if I were to take a stab, my guess is it's bittered with Summit or Warrior. Just food for thought really. An all Citra hop beer can indeed be done. I'm simply referring to Zombie Dust specifically.

For credibility, my source is 3F brewer and personal friend, Andrew Mason-- and I'm the brewer for The Livery in Benton Harbor, MI.

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It used to be when it first came out (and before it was called Zombie Dust also). It has been noted several times in this thread that they changed, and their website no longer advertises it being all citra. Assumption is it was changed due to the citra availability, because it was better when it was all citra.

skeezerpleezer said:

It used to be when it first came out (and before it was called Zombie Dust also). It has been noted several times in this thread that they changed, and their website no longer advertises it being all citra. Assumption is it was changed due to the citra availability, because it was better when it was all citra.

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Right. Cenotaph was indeed a single hopped Citra pale. But we are talking about Zombie Dust correct? So in that case, it's not all Citra-- that is the point. Zombie Dust is also a more refined recipe by comparison really.

When it was re-labeled as Zombie Dust it was advertised as a single hop, all Citra. They stated that directly on their website. They have changed it this year, but you can see the description on BA and ratebeer for FFFs old description.

Skeezer,

your clone of the original zombie dust is awesome.

For credibility - I am the Brewer in my third story apartment in kimberton, Pa.

Considering the number of posts here, I didn't read all the way through. But since it's a Zombie Dust clone, I must relay this story...

A guy in my homebrew club (Tippecanoe Homebrewers Circle, yes, THC) brewed up a ZD clone. As the original poster did, used only Citra hops. The result was damned tasty and very close to 3F's brew. He submitted to the Indiana State Fair's brewing competition and one of the judges, who was national or higher ranked, said his hop bill was off and should try Citra to help balance.

This, coupled with the comments I've received and the judging experiences I've had, is why I don't enter competitions anymore. Most judges have no idea what they're talking about, from my experience. I've received similar responses as my HBC member did, in that the judge falsely identified the hops/malt/overall character, etc.

Anyways, I shall try this recipe out once I get enough Citra hops.

I had a guy tell me he got black currant from my ZD clone and a judge who said he noticed off ferm temps when I know my beer was in the low to mid 60s with US-05 and sat in the fridge all the way until the competition. I might consider comps in the future but I don't really want to pay to have other people drink my beer. The best thing I have found to help your brewing is brewing with other people and getting criticism or suggestions on your brewing process.

kylevester said:

said his hop bill was off and should try Citra to help balance.

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some people simply don't care much at all for citra hops. i wouldn't be surprised if that judge was basically saying... i get it, you like citra but try for some complexity.

TheBreweryUnderground said:

I had a guy tell me he got black currant from my ZD clone and a judge who said he noticed off ferm temps when I know my beer was in the low to mid 60s with US-05 and sat in the fridge all the way until the competition.

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i have heard people mention off "peach" flavors by fermenting low with US-05.

I have brewed this and I ran into someone at a party Saturday that had some of his attempt with him. Both of these independent attempts came to the same conclusion. Close but not bitter enough.

Anyone else getting this? Great beer but lacking in bitterness compared to the original?

I'll let you know in about a week and 1/2. I have mine in the keg for about 4 days now and I have 1 bottle of ZD in the fridge. I plan to do a side by side. My OG was at 1.068 and my FG was 1.020. I used US-04 and mashed on the higher side as was suggested at 154F. So far, it smelled amazing after the DH and the sample I tasted when I transferred it to the keg was very good. It seemed pretty bitter to me.

It will be a few weeks before mine will be ready but when I tasted it before dry hopping and it definitely didn't seem to be short on bitterness.

This could be due to me using citra with a higher AA and because I went ahead and used a full oz rather than .75 for the FWH.

So I am about to brew this AG recipe the 23rd of September for a group brew party. I normaly let my beers sit 2 weeks primary then 4 weeks secondary. This will be my first APA/IPA and was wondering if those times are too long. Ive heard that IPAs shouldnt sit to long because you will lose the hop notes. If my times are good when should i add the dry hops?

Recipe calls for 10 days of dry hopping.

I think 2 weeks is a bit much, I'm typically 7-10 days in primary. This was a very fast attenuating beer for me. I think it was done in three days. So other than a couple extra days diacetyl rest, your wasting time (again, assuming the beer hit FG).

After that, I kegged it and added the dry hops 10 days later I removed the dry hops, added some finings, let it sit a couple days in the fridge and then carb'd. There was a fair amount of hop debris so that extra rest time was needed.

For me I like my beer to age. I keg so at most im waiting 2 days to drink my beer. The 2 weeks in primary is usually because I'm lazy but also I like my beer as "clean" as i can get it. Since I don't bottle I tack the extra two weeks on the secondary for extra conditioning, clearing, and general aging. If I keep my schedule should I just dry hop for 10 days at the begining or end of the 4 week secondary?