Temp of sparge water

I'm an extract brewer planning to move into all-grain with my first batch this weekend. I've used information from this forum to learn all about the process and build my cheap and easy cooler mash tun. I also downloaded a copy of BeerSmith and have my first recipe all planned out.

The question I have is regarding the temperature of my sparge water. I will be batch sparging and BeerSmith has me doing 3 steps:
- Drain mash tun
- 2.08 gal of 168.0F water
- 2.08 gal of 168.0F water

My 5 gallon MT will be at full capacity so I won't be doing a mash-out. I've read in several of the all-grain tutorials that the sparge water should be hotter than that, like 180F.

It actually made sense to me that the temp should be < 170F because I was always sure to keep the water temperature < 170F when using steeping grains in my extract brews. I think this is to keep from leeching tanins from the grain husks.

So what should the temperature of my sparge water really be?

I did my first all grain this last weekend, I sparged it in 170 degree water. Seemed to work fine for me. But I'm pretty new to it.

I usually sparge somewhere between 170-180F. The high temperature will help dissolve any sugars left more thoroughly than you 150s mash would, and you should have to worry about tannins because sparging shouldn't last long enough for that to happen

170-180F is a good range. Some people sparge higher than that with no ill effect. Also, if you can fit all your sparge water in the tun at the same time there is really no reason to do 3 steps, just add the water and stir like hell, vorleuf until you get some clear runnings and then drain the tun

duboman said:

170-180F is a good range. Some people sparge higher than that with no ill effect. Also, if you can fit all your sparge water in the tun at the same time there is really no reason to do 3 steps, just add the water and stir like hell, vorleuf until you get some clear runnings and then drain the tun

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I'm assuming BeerSmith is telling me to do 3 steps because I don't have enough room in my 5 gal tun to hold the 4.16 gallons of sparge water. (I've got 11 lbs of grain).

derousse said:

I'm assuming BeerSmith is telling me to do 3 steps because I don't have enough room in my 5 gal tun to hold the 4.16 gallons of sparge water. (I've got 11 lbs of grain).

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That's correct, in a 5g tun your are maxed out! Time to get a 10g!

I always batch sparge with 190-200F water. Not a problem.

Thanks everybody. I ended sparging with 175F water which brought my mash temp up to about 170F.

Overall, my efficiency didn't end up where I would have liked it to be, but for my first all-grain, the process when very smoothly and I ended up with a decent gravity in the fermenter.

Can't wait to taste the results.

My last two batches I played with the 168 temp for batch sparging and my efficiency took a dump. I'm going back to 175-180.

Paulgs3 said:

My last two batches I played with the 168 temp for batch sparging and my efficiency took a dump. I'm going back to 175-180.

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To me that would indicate you're not getting full conversion in the mash and adding the hotter water finished things up. You might want to look into Kai's conversion efficiency chart. http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency#Determining_Conversion_Efficiency

Agreed. For batch spargers with efficiency problems, sparge temp is not the place to look.

Denny said:

To me that would indicate you're not getting full conversion in the mash and adding the hotter water finished things up. You might want to look into Kai's conversion efficiency chart. http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency#Determining_Conversion_Efficiency

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I just found that chart earlier today while browsing over low efficiency, awesome read!! I've actually been doing really well with my same set up hammering in 74-77% until I changed my sparge water temp. I go 60-90 mins, check starch test. I didn't follow the golden rule of it it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I sparge at 190

The water temp when you pour it in will need to be higher than what you want to end up with. Just like at mash in, your water will drop to an average between your grain temp and sparge water temp. If your at say 152 mash temp, pouring 170deg water might get you to 160 or so. Pouring 180-190 will get you closer to the 170 mash out temp. You'll have to see what your own set up gets you.

Paulgs3 said:

I've actually been doing really well with my same set up hammering in 74-77% until I changed my sparge water temp. I go 60-90 mins, check starch test. I didn't follow the golden rule of it it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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Any other changes? Was it the exact same recipe? I've personally sparged with temps all over the place, including lukewarm water. And it never really seems to make a difference. If my efficiency dips, it's been something else, every time.

Also, remember your high school stats - sample size of 1 isn't too meaningful.

I'm like Denny. I normally sparge with 190-200* water, but I've also sparged with room temp water with almost no change in efficiency. As a matter of fact, I would always sparge with room temp water if it didn't make it take longer to reach boiling temps....

I did what beersmith says and hit 160 or so at what was recommended. Next time ill jump to about 180. When I drained mash tun temp dropped to 150. Added the sparge and hit 160. So i'll plug in 180 and see what I get. Still missed my og by .004 points today

If you are really concerned about tannins, treat the sparge water with acid (Lactic, Phosphoric, HCl) to a pH of about 6 and that will alleviate the concern.

TyTanium said:

Any other changes? Was it the exact same recipe? I've personally sparged with temps all over the place, including lukewarm water. And it never really seems to make a difference. If my efficiency dips, it's been something else, every time.

Also, remember your high school stats - sample size of 1 isn't too meaningful.

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Only difference was the hops. 23.5# of grain, One had crystal 20, the other had crystal 80, both 2# the rest 2 row, first one was 90 mins, second was about 75. PH was 5.2-5.4 (darn strips), sparge was around 5.8 to 6. 1Tbs of gypsum, pinch of metasulfate (yeah..... pinch is not accurate).

I did check the refractometer, its was a tad off on the zero, I need to check with NaCl solution. My run off was around 1.025, but I will admit my mash was a bit off, target was 1.050, I hit about 1.044. I have not checked my thermometers recently, its traceable and a year old, but you never know. My barley crusher is still at a credit card space. I honestly don't know, the only thing has changed is the sparge temp. I'm sure there could be something else wrong, not denying that or being closed minded, trust me, I want it to be the temp as its easier to fix. Could even be I'm not mixing it enough.

Best way to find out is brew again!!

Czm said:

I did what beersmith says and hit 160 or so at what was recommended. Next time ill jump to about 180. When I drained mash tun temp dropped to 150. Added the sparge and hit 160. So i'll plug in 180 and see what I get. Still missed my og by .004 points today

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Beersmith is a tool (a great tool) but it's not brewing instructions. Use it to do what you want to do, not what it "tells" you to do.

23# of grain is a lot and a lot if people notice a drop in efficiency with big grain bills as it becomes more difficult to ensure thorough mixing so that too could be a culprit.

duboman said:

23# of grain is a lot and a lot if people notice a drop in efficiency with big grain bills as it becomes more difficult to ensure thorough mixing so that too could be a culprit.

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My understanding is that the reason larger grainbills generally cause lower efficiency isn't the mixing, but instead the undersparging.

What I mean is, if you sparge up to your boil volume with 12 pounds of grain, you'll probably run 3 quarts of water (total) per pound of grain through your grainbill, maximizing efficiency without risking oversparging. That would get you a boil volume of 7 gallons or so, and boiling down to 5.25 gallons.

If you have 23 pounds of grain, you'd probably not even need to sparge much at all- maybe 1.2 gallons. So, that would be more like 1.7 quarts of water per pound of grain for a starting boil volume of 7 gallons.

That's where the efficiency "loss" is. The more you sparge (within reason, and not oversparging), the more sugars you extract from the grain.

Yooper said:

My understanding is that the reason larger grainbills generally cause lower efficiency isn't the mixing, but instead the undersparging.

What I mean is, if you sparge up to your boil volume with 12 pounds of grain, you'll probably run 3 quarts of water (total) per pound of grain through your grainbill, maximizing efficiency without risking oversparging. That would get you a boil volume of 7 gallons or so, and boiling down to 5.25 gallons.

If you have 23 pounds of grain, you'd probably not even need to sparge much at all- maybe 1.2 gallons. So, that would be more like 1.7 quarts of water per pound of grain for a starting boil volume of 7 gallons.

That's where the efficiency "loss" is. The more you sparge (within reason, and not oversparging), the more sugars you extract from the grain.

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Hey Yooper!

That actually sounds like a great winter beer! I'm doing 10g batches though, easy going pales. I never even dreamt of using 23#s in a 5g batch. I want.... I want bad!

I am going to accept duboman challenge and get me one of these: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...t/stirring-straining/mash-paddle-doweled.html

Its way past time I upgraded my little 24" mixing spoon. Besides I'm tired of burning my hand mixing up the mash.

Paulgs3 said:

Hey Yooper!

That actually sounds like a great winter beer! I'm doing 10g batches though, easy going pales. I never even dreamt of using 23#s in a 5g batch. I want.... I want bad!

I am going to accept duboman challenge and get me one of these: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/beer-brewing-equipment/stirring-straining/mash-paddle-doweled.html

Its way past time I upgraded my little 24" mixing spoon. Besides I'm tired of burning my hand mixing up the mash.

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I definitely think it will help you out but what the point Yooper is raising is correct as well and while I didn't think about it as a possibility in the few large beers I've brewed with dropped efficiency it makes perfect sense!

On large grain bills I either over sparge and boil longer, or I mash thick to increase my sparge amount. Both will get you in the ballpark with your gravity..

Stauffbier said:

On large grain bills I either over sparge and boil longer, or I mash thick to increase my sparge amount. Both will get you in the ballpark with your gravity..

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I try to do a little of both. Although I usually sparge heavy anyway, since my kettle has an insane boil off rate with the banjo burner cooking, somewhere around 1.5 gallons per hour at a rolling boil. Large grain bills don't seem to effect my efficiency much.

duboman said:

I definitely think it will help you out but what the point Yooper is raising is correct as well and while I didn't think about it as a possibility in the few large beers I've brewed with dropped efficiency it makes perfect sense!

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I agree, I ran into that issue with my Celebration clone. Yooper is usually right when she chimes in. Also I've been hinkering for a high grav beer for the winter season, which is why I kinda tossed that in there.

Also thank you for the push towards getting a proper paddle to mix, I'm sure it will help.

Not to keep hijacking form the OP, I like whitehause answer and that is what I always though to be true. We do the same with mashes, I add 163 to mash at 152, makes sense to do that same with sparge. When I added water at 162 probably dropped my temp down back to 155ish? I'm basically just re-mashing. It was a mistake of following Beersmith quite literally, which I shouldn't have. I should have known better.

Thanks all for the tips!