No sparge vs batch sparge vs hybrid ?

DeafSmith said:

This has probably been discussed before, but I haven't found it, so apologies if I'm rehashing an old subject.

I've been reading some claims that the no-sparge method produces better beers from higher quality wort (no low gravity runoff) as opposed to normal batch sparging. I haven't tried this myself, but if it's true, I am interested in trying it. The disadvantage, of course, is the loss of efficiency because you're leaving a lot of sugar behind in the MLT.

Looking at Kai's analysis here:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparging_Analysis
under "Last running gravity", it seems that you have a choice to have a high last running gravity (approx. 1.040+ with 10-12 pounds of grain) with a no-sparge, or a lower (approx. 1.015 for 10-12 pounds of grain) last running gravity with a batch sparge, regardless of the number of batches used. If no-sparge really produces better beer, I wonder if you really need as high a value of last running gravity as you get from no-sparge in order to get this quality improvement.

So I got to wondering, could you do a hybrid of no-sparge and single batch sparge?
1. Mash
2. Vorlauf
3. Drain only a part of the first runnings (say, for the sake of argument, half)
3. Stop the runoff and add all the sparge water and stir.
4. Vorlauf
5. Drain the MLT dry.
It seems to me this would produce higher gravity last runnings than a batch sparge, but lower than no-sparge, and better efficiency than no-sparge (though not as good as batch sparge).

Surely someone has tried this before - I'd like to know if it's worth considering.

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Reelale said:

In
3. Stop the runoff and add all the sparge water and stir. (add the remaining pre-boil volume)

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Reelale said:

Interesting. But I can't wrap my head around the mash/vorlauf steps. I no-sparge, and the process I use is to recirculate all of the wort during the mash. Is this what you are describing:

1. Mash (traditional grain/water ratio)
2. Vorlauf (traditional)
3. Drain only a part of the first runnings (say, for the sake of argument, half)
3. Stop the runoff and add all the sparge water and stir. (add the remaining pre-boil volume)
4. Vorlauf (recirculate)
5. Drain the MLT dry.

I guess you could do that with a 3 vessels system, but the beauty of no-sparge is you don't need an HLT nor do you need a separate vessel to drain your MLT into. All of the wort is transferred between the BK and MLT. Still an interesting concept. Subscribed.

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dkershner said:

I see no reason why no sparge brewing would produce a higher quality wort unless you do something wrong with fly or batch sparging, although I will concede that it is harder to do something wrong with no sparge.

That being said, your hybrid method should work fine, although it would probably take just as long as batch sparging and would have lower efficiency. I also don't see why the efficiency would be any different from just stirring before you leak any out and not sparging.

Sparging is a method of rinsing the grain, so it is actually more important to introduce new water than it is to just swirl things up. A more effective method of increasing efficiency without sparging would be to recirculate IMO.

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DeafSmith said:

What I mean in steps 2 and 4 is recirculate a couple of quarts to set the grain bed. Otherwise, your comments in red are what I intended to say.
I agree that no-sparge is simpler - in fact, the method I described is really just a batch sparge without completely draining the first runnings. I was just trying to find a way to mitigate a part of the efficiency hit of no-sparge while still retaining higher last running gravity than batch sparge.

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Bobby_M said:

The concept is intentionally dropping your efficiency to avoid over sparging and pulling more than just sugar from the grain. Lower efficiency (specifically due to lauter/sparge method) MAY produce better wort IF your traditional high efficiency process includes really bad pH swings. What is your normal efficiency? If it's under 85%, I can't see any benefit at all to crushing it. If you're talking about a small grain bill beer where you typically get near 95%, that's where you start looking for ways to reduce it.

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