Flask - stove top

Hi gang...

my third brew day will be this saturday... using my first liquid yeast and first starter for this batch. I smacked my pack yesterday (Tuesday) and am waiting for it to swell...

I got the 2000ml flask from AHS and the starter kit that came with it is for like 750ml which doesnt seem like much wort at all compared to the size of the flask.

two questions:

1. Is that 750ml enough for a starter and more importantly:

2. Has anyone had any problems boiling right in the flask on a glass-top electric range? I'm not sure if you can only boil the flask with a gas burner.

thanks.

I've personally never made a starter smaller than 1000mL
You should not have any problems boiling directly on the electric range.

ya.. it seems like there should be more but the pack from Austin Homebrew Supply was so tiny. Kinda strange, and I dont have any extra DME. Hope I'm not screwed for this weekend.

another thing, did you smack the pack and put it back in the fridge? When at room temp they should swell up in about 3 hours.

It's sitting out at room temp. I smacked it around 6pm last night and this morning the package was plump but not solid or anything. I plan on making the starter when I get home from work in about 7 hours from now.

Even though that is not a lot of wort, keep in mind that you will likely double the number of yeast cells that are in the smack pack. Since many people use the pack without a starter, I suspect your results will be very satisfactory.

If you are brewing a really big beer, you might want to scale up the starter size.

Just keep a very close eye on the flask while boiling on the stove and use very low heat. It will boil out of the top very quickly and easily.

thank you very much everyone.

for the future though, it looks like I may just get 1lb of DME to keep for starters so I can 'step up' right before brew day.

I would avoid boiling with the flask directly on the electric element. You can buy wire trivets that you'd put under coffee carafes that will protect it from the direct heat. It would really suck to have a flask shatter with the heat on - aside from the huge sticky mess, a lot of the wort would burn and stink up the place.

FWIW, I tried boiling my flask directly on the stove, and it was a big mess when it came to adding the DME through the narrow opening (DME tends to clump/cake immediately when exposed to moisture, including hot steam).

I wouldn't put a flask directly on an electric element but since you have a glass-top, I don't see any issues.

Funkenjaeger said:

I would avoid boiling with the flask directly on the electric element.

Click to expand...

These flasks are great... I put it on the glass top electric element straight to an ice bath and it doesn't shatter. I wouldn't worry about it's integrity on any burner.

ArcaneXor said:

FWIW, I tried boiling my flask directly on the stove, and it was a big mess when it came to adding the DME through the narrow opening (DME tends to clump/cake immediately when exposed to moisture, including hot steam).

Click to expand...

Add the DME to the dry flask. Then add water. Then bring to a boil going no higher than medium heat. It takes longer, but you shouldn't have a boilover.

I put mine directly on the glass top stove. The steam escaping from the boil knocks most of the sticking DME back into the flask. It doesn't really need to boil all that hard or really at all, you just need 15 minutes with it over 170 degrees F to sanitize the wort. I get mine to just start bubbling and then turn the heat down slightly.

ArcaneXor said:

FWIW, I tried boiling my flask directly on the stove, and it was a big mess when it came to adding the DME through the narrow opening (DME tends to clump/cake immediately when exposed to moisture, including hot steam).

Click to expand...

What I do is to put the DME in a glass measuring cup, pour the boiling water out of the flask into it, and then stir and/or pour it back and forth a couple times until it's fully dissolved.

DubbelDach said:

These flasks are great... I put it on the glass top electric element straight to an ice bath and it doesn't shatter. I wouldn't worry about it's integrity on any burner

Click to expand...

Glass top stoves aren't the same as putting it directly on an electric element though. Do it whatever way you're comfortable with, but I've always heard from folks who've had experience with using flasks in labs, etc, that it's a better idea to use some kind of trivet or heat diffuser, so that's what I do. My wire trivet cost me less than $1, so it's very cheap insurance. YMMV...

Here's a discussion of the matter on a different forum, with lots of opinions on both sides:
http://www.tastybrew.com/forum/thread/36630

i use an electric burner and a 1/2 gallon saucepan. just put some water in the flask, some water in the saucepan and you're ready to go.

as for adding DME, as always...i add it as it's heating up. it dissolves better and won't clump up. i do keep an eye on the boil, tho, to make sure it doesn't overflow.

I second the pouring the water into another vessel with the DME

I use fermcap on mine too - it is WAY too easy to get a gushing boil over with those flasks.

Pitching rate calculator.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

OMG SOMEBODY HELP!!!!

I made the starter... everything going fine... wort is boiled (in the flask) for 15 minutes, put in saucepan with room temp water... gradually get it nice and cool then ice it down... 80 deg in about 12 minutes...

then the madness begins... I get the stopper and airlock out of my sanitizer... go to start pushing the stopper in lightly and it gets sucked into the mouth of the flask JUST in enough to not be able to grab the lip... sooooo I sanitize two forks and manage to work it out. Now I try again with the airlock in... AND THE STOPPER WILL NOT STAY IN!!! I am so pissed off right now and I can not just relax and have a homebrew.

It's a 2000ml flask with a size 10 stopper and I am just beside myself right now as I want to brew this weekend and am afraid I just pissed away good yeast.

has anyone else had this constant stopper-pop and how did you fix it?

Just sanitize some foil and put it on top for now. Once the stopper is dry try it again.

thank you... sorry for freaking out

ArcaneXor said:

FWIW, I tried boiling my flask directly on the stove, and it was a big mess when it came to adding the DME through the narrow opening (DME tends to clump/cake immediately when exposed to moisture, including hot steam).

Click to expand...

I put the DME in a dry flask, add the water & swirl briefly, then pop it in the microwave for a minute or so. Once the water is warm, I swirl to dissolve the DME, then proceed to boil on the stovetop.

If you've got Ferm-cap, just a tiny drop will eliminate the risk of boilover. Due the flask shape, your wort can go from stable boil to volcano in the blink of an eye!

I always use sanitized foil on my flask, never even tried a stopper. If you crash cool with the stopper/airlock, you'll suck the airlock liquid back in. In any case, you're in good shape and should be mighty impressed with the results. If you had used liquid yeast without a starter previously, you'd be even more impressed, but you seem too smart for those kinds of shenanigans. Me on the other hand...

i just use foil, too. works fine without a stopper.

That's great to hear that people just use foil.. makes me feel a LOT better.

Ok.. so here's the update... about 13 hours after my freak-out above

Went downstairs before leaving the house and checked the flask. Foil was still on tight and the wort was crystal clear... nothing on the surface at all... nice light amber color. There was a decent layer of sediment in the bottom.

Two questions, (there are tons of posts but I'm not able to add it all up for my situation):

1. Is it ok that I saw absolutely NO bubbling or any physical signs of fermentation? It possibly bubbled out overnight?

2. It is Thursday and I plan on brewing Saturday morning... tomorrow night if absolutely necessary as I have no more DME to 'step up' the starter.

I really appreciate the feedback I've been getting guys... I just really dont want to lose the whole batch due to a starter... beginning to think I should have just pitched the yeast pack that was swollen last nite

Jonnio said:

Just sanitize some foil and put it on top for now. Once the stopper is dry try it again.

Click to expand...

FWIW foil is already sterile via the heating process. Just put on the flask and your ready to go.

I forgot to mention... there is absolutely no evidence of a kraussen ring on the flask above the surface of the wort... is that normal? should there be signs of something?

Starters will ferment out really quickly and I don't normally see any krausen. I was worried about this too the first time, but when I decanted off the liquid it smelled like beer, not wort, and worked just great.

On a side note, the Tastybrew thread had one guy that said he had not broken his Pyrex flask but had broken a Pyrex cooking dish. The problem with that comparison is that Pyrex now makes its cookware out of soda lime glass instead of borosilicate glass. The lab glass is still borosilicate though, so we're fine with our flasks.

Ok.. I'm starting to feel much better when it comes to pitching this yeast on saturday... thank you again everyone!

Everybody keeps talking about the "wire trivet".... anyone have a picture?

I ask because I have a 1L and a 2L flask, but I have a crappy electric-coil stove (not glasstop). I want to boil directly in my flask, but I have no visual idea of what you guys are talking about.............. *is dumb*

chriso said:

Everybody keeps talking about the "wire trivet".... anyone have a picture?

Click to expand...

They used to come with Pyrex coffee pots, for use on electric stoves...maybe they still do. They were usually star shaped or triangular. Check a housewares store.

You could probably just make one out of heavy steel wire.

Aha! Perfect, thanks Lars! I had a strong suspicion I could DIY with wire I had readily available ... but couldn't visualize what I needed to make! e.g. shape, contact points, etc.

Cheers!

You can make one easy out of an old metal coathanger

Joe

Well... just as an update: Brew day was on Saturday... nice hour long boil, quick chill (about 15 minutes), got wort in carboy... shook it up really good, shook my e-flask starter which started fizzing. Pitched the yeast not knowing if it was actually going to do anything and WOAH! In about 8 hours I had VERY aggressive fermentation starting. It is also the first time I ever used a blowoff tube and am so grateful I finally took that step.

Never seen anything like it. So much energy, the temp went up from 68 to roughly 74deg with no environmental temp changes. Very excited to try this beer!